How to make ID cards, and the Planning bill, progressive.

jkitleft Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 07:11:00 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

What would you rather spend money on: ID Cards or on Renewable energy sources?

The only reason why Germany and Denmark have more wind power, is because it gave subsidies to kick-start green energy. It would cost us under a billion to cover the costs of undersea cables for offshore wind.

We should also subsidise micro-generation. To install solar panels or windmills with CHP boilers on millions of homes would cost a fraction of ID cards.

We also need an extension of the Braintree model. Cut £100 off council tax, in exchange for insulating homes, lagging lofts, and other energy efficient measures.

The planning permission for windmills and solar panels should be relaxed. All new homes built should have micro-generators.




But we hit some snags with government bills. Because they could make bills be a symbol of how they are trying to tackle climate change.

First of all, the Planning bill is in principle, an ok thing. But it should focus on green issues. If we say, focused the bill on making sure local Tory/Lib Dem and SNP nimbys couldn't stop huge amounts of wind energy from being blocked, then I'm all for it. Climate change, must be the main remit of the planning commission. And to further defuse this bill, make sure that the final say is with an elected minister accountable to parliament.


Now, on a bigger contraversial issue: ID cards. They could be a force for progressivism. The remit of ID cards should be shrunk. They should not contain details about what videos I rent from Blockbuster. But they should not be ID cards at all. They should be like a Tesco loyalty card, but for carbon trading. It combines  redistributionism, with electric green radicalism. The rich will use 4x4's and planes more than poorer people.

Carbon trading is the best way, of introducing populist environmentalism, while preserving our socialist ideals. Another solution for migro-generation could be influenced by carbon trading: energy companies should buy back extra energy from homes.

The government wants to look like they are devolving power, and tough on immigration/crime/terrorism, or whatever the new excuse for ID cards is each week. Yet ironically, they could be more progressive, and save money for people, with far more popular ideas.



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How to make ID cards, and the Planning bill, progressive. | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: wind turbines. (#1)

by otware on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 10:54:33 PM GMT

By all accounts installing a David Cameron windmill on your roof is like pissing in the ocean when it comes to the total energy needed to keep the lights on, but new technology being developed in the Netherlands to harness the power of high-altitude winds is promising. It relies on kites flying to around 1km up, this creates tension in the cable which turns a tubrine and the kite is pulled down again (with the aid of gravity and some nifty aerodynamics, so you don't have to waste much energy pulling it down) and then sent up again. It could be operational in 5 years, with lots of funding, but without it it will just sit there as unused technology.


Re: wind turbines. (#2)

by adwilliams134 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 09:42:17 AM GMT

Forget ID cards unless you are going to make them free, not make it compulsory to carry or produce them, make them free to replace and reduce the amount of data that govenrment wants.  It is a massive vote-loser amongst 'natural' Labour voters.  Accept, drop it, move on or it along with the EU referendum-that-wasn't will be used as election pledges by the tories and you will get what you deserve.


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#3)

by jkitleft on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:52:11 PM GMT

1) I'm still not sure why we needed a referendum on a relatively meaningless treaty.

2) I'm not sure how unpopular it is amongst Labour voters. Opinion was generally for ID cards by a big margin before the benefit data loss. So when opinion started turning against, was it amongst conservatives distrustful of the government, or Labour supporters?


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#4)

by adwilliams134 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:10:10 PM GMT

The reason why we need that referendum is because we were promised one.  New Labour believe it's a good thing and they also believe the general public support it so what's their problem with the referendum that they actually promised?

The tories are going to give that referendum as a pledge in their up-coming manifesto.  What will New Labour do about that? Panci in all probability as they know that a referendum on this is lost.  The Irish incidentally hacve re-confirmed that there will be no further referendum on this issue in their country.

Nearly every single person I know is or was until recently a Labour voter.  None of them want the ID card and never have done.  What most of them want is tighter border & controls, stricter immigration rules and those rules applied to EU nationals as well, stricter visa rules (Mandelson to note),  benefits and social housing restricted to UK citizens only,  NHS treatment (less emergencies) for UK citizens only.  Before you play the 'BNP' card,  they aren't being racist.  UK citizens come in all shapes, sizes, colours and creeds.  And in the UK,  UK citizens must always have priority.

Again,  the tories will turn ID cards into an election issue.


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#5)

by jkitleft on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:34:30 PM GMT

I never understand the argument that 'foreigners' are clogging up housing and NHS waiting lists. Do froeigners suddenly come here and all think that they need an operation. From my experience, less foreigners use hospitals than UK citizens. I know of a Polish builder who very badly hurt his arm, nearly breaking it. And yet when everyone told him to go to a hospital, he continued working.

And by the by, only 5% of council housing is occupied by foreigners.


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#6)

by adwilliams134 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 04:46:45 PM GMT

"And by the by, only 5% of council housing is occupied by foreigners."

First of all,  there is a massive shortage of social housing for rent in this country and it is getting worse.  Councils are stilling selling of houses under the right to buy faster than housing assosciations can replace them.  So why,  are 1 in 20 of our social homes occupied by foreigners when we have UK citizens desperate for it?

Secondly,  your '5%' refers to non-EU nationals. There should be no non-UK citizens occupying social housing unless they are partnered with a UK citizen FULL STOP.  It is not the UK's job to house foreigners in this country at the expense of it's own citizens.

If you think foreigners should have access to social housing in the UK,  then allow it the day after you have built that much that the needs of UK citizens have been met in full.

Jesus.  And you people wonder why people vote BNP.


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#7)

by jkitleft on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:54:15 PM GMT

Well, I support a massive council housing building programme.

It would be wise right now, as the building industry is in crisis currently.

My point was that there are so many BNP lies about how foreigners are jumped ahead in the waiting lists for housing.


[ Parent ]

Re: wind turbines. (#8)

by adwilliams134 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 07:43:44 PM GMT

No non-UK citizen should be housed in social housing in front of a UK citizen.  FULL STOP


[ Parent ]

Slaves of the State (#9)

by FreedomAndTruth on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 04:25:41 AM GMT

No to ID cards (the precursor of subcutaneous chips) - I'm a man, not a number

No to carbon trading - stop trying to micromanage my life, Government


Re: ID cards, and law un-enforcement (#10)

by madasafish on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:24:08 AM GMT

Wind energy is a waste of time and money: IF you do not have a reasonably constant wind at a reasonable speed. Otherwise you have an expensive asset doing nothing.

That is so intuitively obvious BUT we get blanket support of windpower as from the original poster so I assume it is not obvious.

As far as ID cards etc, anyone who reads what has been said  and uses their brain sees the lies and contradictions: they apply only to people in UK, visitors do not need them, carrying them is not compulsory but you need one to get a passport. Oh and by the way they will enable us to stop terrorism .

The words "totally illogical rubbish" come to mind. It's a joke. Even Stalin could do better.


I defy anyone to assemle all the various Government pronouncements on the issue and reconcile all the conflicting statements.


The Government is not tough on immigration or crime.. if they were we would have 1 million fewer immigrants , lots more sent home, a prison population of 120,000 and far fewer laws . The reason for the latter is the simple fact that Labour has passed so many laws criminalising so many things they are unenforceable. Enforce the existing law before any new ones.

My personal view is if they really wanted to make a substantial difference to drugs and the binge culture a few high profile arrests and jailings would not go amiss.
(Kate Moss, the Rauslings)

If you are a millionaire and caught taking drugs, you get off. If poor it's jail.
If you binge drink and assault people   you should go to jail immediately. Quick tracked through the courts and 3 months. That is for a first offence.

After a few cases in each area, I suspect the incidence of drink assaults would fall.


 It's all about spin..

Fortunately the old saw about fooling people and time happens.

At this point in fairness, I can't say prior Conservative Gorvernments were much better.





Re: How to make ID cards etc.. progressive. (#11)

by NB on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 03:44:27 PM GMT

Where on earth are the billions you want to spend on this going to come from? 


How to make ID cards, and the Planning bill, progressive. | 11 comments (11 topical)