The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket

NorthernMonkey Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:50:18 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Whilst I don't believe we should change leaders again before the next general election, I must admit it is looking more likely that we will do so.

Rumours are swirling over a David Miliband - Alan Johnson dream ticket standing jointly for leader and deputy leader when the time comes.




For me this sounds like the perfect combination and both are certainly likeable (which is more than can be said for the current occupants of those two positions).

So I certainly hope these rumours are true. Given Miliband's article in the Guardian today it wouldn't surprise me if he started to make a move. Good luck to them both.

What do other Labourites think about this, or who else do you think would make a better combination?

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The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket | 54 comments (54 topical)

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#1)

by jkitleft on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:18:57 AM GMT

Still not sure about Milliband. Decent guy, and he gets more criticism than he's due. But I would prefer Johnson. But we need not just a new leader, but a new direction. Indeed, in the cabinet, they appear to be on the progressive side. I think they should get rid of the triangulating tendency: Blears, Hutton, Flint etc. I don't believe that this is a conservative country. That doesn't mean that we should banish the New Labour tendency, but I don't like how some seem to play devil's advocate for the right, in order to score some political points. 
But New Labour is a wide spectrum. I think on the left of New Labour, you could have people like Ken, or Harriet Harman and Yvette Cooper. 

How about:

Livingstone-Johnson
Johnson-Milliband
Harman-Livingstone? 


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#11)

by otware on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:39:19 PM GMT

Ken Livingstone? He's not even an MP. Also he's now associated with failure.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#2)

by Stuart King on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:27:21 AM GMT

While the current political climate has inevitably encouraged widespread speculation about the leadership I think we owe it to ourselves to think this through a little more seriously. Some of the suggestions (Harman-Livingstone!) strike me as more political fantasy cabinet than serious suggestions. In that particular case Livingstone is not even an MP and therefore could not stand as leader/deputy in any election.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#3)

by redwedge on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 09:06:42 AM GMT

These rumours in the media are always interesting. 

The rumour I have heard is a Miliband-Cruddas dream ticket.  With Cruddas being seen as having a similiar role to John Prescott.  The question is whether Cruddas wants the no 2 or no 1 spot???

The second challenge here is if Brown does fall on his sword - what happens to Harman.  She doesn't actually need to resign but will come under an immense amount of pressure to do so to allow a new leadership team to "emerge" - hence the rumblings coming from her camp about standing for the leadership. 



Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#4)

by Radford Mann on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 10:45:11 AM GMT

IF there is an election for leader it will be no good electing someone who will just continue the same policy line but look better on the television. Some sort of change in policy is required. I hope that my colleagues on the left don't get fixated with a MacDonnell candidacy. The plain fact is that he can't win. I hope for a Campaign Group / Compass coalition around Jon Cruddas as offering the best hope of improvement.

As an alternative, outside bet aligned to no particular wing of the party, what about Hilary Benn as the 'unity ' candidate?


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#5)

by CitizenAndreas on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:00:33 AM GMT

I don't want to get too speculative here, I think this whole media frenzy will soon die down.

Just in case though, it's worth pointing out that if a leadership election does occur then it'll probably use a similar system to the deputy leadership election. In this case, backing a candidate like McDonnell would not be a problem because a more moderate candidate could always be second preference.

As for Hilary Benn, he's gone down in my estimation after what went on at CDC.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#8)

by doctordunc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:42:16 AM GMT

Well the system is set in stone - the problem is with nominations not with voting.  The whole point of the voting system is, so long as there is a fair range of candidates, nobody needs to make 'lesser evil' judgements.  Supporters of John Hutton or James Purnell, for example, could give him their first preference and their second could go to Miliband.  That way the voting system makes the compromises, not individual members.

The way to ensure that we could have that possibility is by supporting the Calder Valley rule change at conference, and reducing the nomination threshold.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#38)

by Radford Mann on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:50:49 AM GMT

The difficulty may lie in getting enough nominations for either MacDonnell or Cruddas to get on the ballot. If the Campaign Group sign up for Cruddas's candidacy (assuming he wants the job, of course!) then he should get on the ballot and stand a chance. At this stage we don't know what pressures will be placed on MPs to back candidate X to avoid disunity, perhaps around a Miliband / Johnson ticket as the original post posits. What is clear is that if there is an election, there has to be a left(ish) candidate on the ballot.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#39)

by doctordunc on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:36:15 AM GMT

Well you're right.  Getting nominations for the leadership is a different kettle of fish from getting nominations for the deputy leadership and, if there isn't a rule change, it will be difficult for any non-Cabinet figure (and actually several Cabinet figures) to get nominated. 

Lots of people last year (from all wings of the party) commented that it would be good for the party if any leadership election featured a full range of candidates from the various wings or traditions in the party.  I think that's still true, isn't it?


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#53)

by Radford Mann on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:45:47 PM GMT

Of course it is. However wishing it were so does not make it so and it remains possible that there will be a small field from which to choose. It may be possible to get one leftish candidate on the ballot, but I doubt it will be possible to get two on it.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#6)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:31:29 AM GMT

We can't change policy till after the election. We are currently bound by our 2005 manifesto for this parliament.

I'm a bit fed-up of all this rumour-mongering about the leadership. If we change leaders, we will have to go to the country for a general election at a time when we still do not know how world conditions have played out and at a time where we are simply not ready for a general election on the ground. 

It would also be difficult to conduct a full leadership eletion lasting several months while trying to govern - are we expecting Gordon brown to be caretaker leader during this period? Or worse, Harriet Harman to be PM during this period? Madness.

We just need to grit our collective teeth and ride out this frenzy in the press. They'll soon get bored and turn on some other party.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#13)

by Radford Mann on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:46:58 PM GMT

On what basis do you make the claim that if we change leader we will have to go to the country? If we change leader the Labour Party will still command a majority of seats in the House and able to form a government. There is absolutely no constitutional need to hold an early election. We do not, fortunately, elect our Prime Ministers separately from other MPs. Of course the queen may decide to dissolve parliament against the advice of the new PM but that would be a very nice step on the way to becomming a republic, so here's hoping.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#14)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:58:20 PM GMT

You are right that there is no constitutional need for an immediate general election, but there will be public pressure for one.

Think about it. This whole frenzy to change the leader is coming from the press. Once we bow to the pressure from the press to change leader, the story will then change to a frenzy for an election. Feed the beast and they will force us to do anything they want.

To be facetious, there is no "constituitional need" to change leader just because opinion polls are bad either! We have a majority, we can simply carry on the government's business as we are till 2010. It's madness that we are even contemplating this.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#21)

by Free Radical on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 05:41:02 PM GMT

We can't change policy till after the election. We are currently bound by our 2005 manifesto for this parliament.

There is of course a theoretical moral argument that you are bound to the manifesto. However it flies in the face of both reality and practice. You might argue that the public might punish you for deviating from the manifesto but:
1. Conditions change -as world conditions obviously have, dramatically, and so policy needs to change
2. Governments constantly deviate from the manifesto - 42 days legislation was not in the manifesto for example (a good reason for not going ahead with it perhaps...)
3. You know that you and I as members had zero-point-zero influence on the manifesto as everything in the party has been top-down for ten years (one of the things destroying the party) - so actually I have little or no allegiance to it myself sadly
4. The average voter does not keep a copy of the manifesto in their kitchen drawer, or behind the living-room clock to check against what the government has done - though of course the media can use it as an arguement. The average voter doesn't read the manifesto - in fact I would wager that the average party member doesn't read it in full...

Essentially we have a duty to do what is right for people and right for our country and our party and for the wider world out there. We have to do what is needed and commensurate with our principles. (This is the real issue - the debate on what our principles are!)

If we change leaders, we will have to go to the country for a general election

I don't know how many times this has been trotted out, but it is nonsense. As I pointed out the other day (and sorry for repeating myself...)
Churchill replaced Chamberlain - with no election
 Macmillan replaced Eden - with no election
Douglas-Home replaced Macmillan - with no election
Callaghan replaced Wilson - with no election
Major replaced Thatcher - with no election
Brown replaces Blair - with no election.
It's actually hard to find a precedent for calling an election upon the replacement of a leader (anyone?).

Yes, the Tories might scream for an election, the Tory press might scream for an election but there is no need for an election. (As Radford Mann points out and as you acknowledge - but in your further response you go on to conflate public pressure for an election with press pressure - and they are not at all the same thing).


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#23)

by ppbarrett on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 06:06:53 PM GMT

... and as was pointed out to you the other day, the examples you cite don't accurately represent the situation we are currently in.

The examples you cite are of leaders who are replacing leaders who led the party at the previous election. We are now contemplating and debating about replacing our 2<sup>nd</sup> leader as of the last general election, with a third, of which there is no historical precedence (with the exception of Baldwin-Chamberlain-Churchill, but we can agree that that was in quite exceptional circumstances - no?). The context of your examples are more often than not particularly unpopular individuals (Thatcher, Blair), not by unpopular parties. Today we are in a situation where both we and our leader are unpopular with the country, which will see a change not as a re-establishment of our party’s values, but as a party desperately clinging to power.

And yes, the argument for having an election is a moral one, but it is also placed within the context of our party's popularity. If we were to be seen as an unpopular party, callously changing leaders and making the British public accept it without any consultation, we will not win any voters, in fact, I cannot think of a more effective way to lose our remaining support! There would be irresistible pressure from the media, the Conservatives and the public for us to go to the polls, we may not be obliged to, but if we didn't, we'd inflict irreversible damage to our party's electoral fortunes in the future and guarantee a longer stay in opposition.
Our only viable option once changing leader is to promise a general election at a definite point in the future and buy ourselves more time to 'set out our stall'. Simply changing leader and making no plans to go to the country before 2010 will cause our ratings to plummet.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#24)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 06:08:38 PM GMT

Yes, the Tories might scream for an election, the Tory press might scream for an election but there is no need for an election

And that worked really well for us last autumn, didn't it? Isn't one of the reasons Brown is being attacked down to failing to have a completely unnecesary election last autumn? Because the press wanted him to have one and not doing what they say means being hammered?

If we change leader and don't have a general election fairly soon after, it will be last autumn with bells on. 

Think, people, think. We're being manipulated here. We're not in a good position for a leadership election.  Miliband is not the answer - recent polls have shown he'd do no better than Brown, and his article in the Guardian got a negative response, mainly because he dared to bullishly defend Iraq (at least Gordon has had the sense to carefully defuse Iraq by slowly pulling out and making no war noises at all). We are not in a position to hold a general election either - most constituencies are still in the same state as Glasgow east as far as voter Id goes. 


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#32)

by Free Radical on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 10:36:37 PM GMT

Look, I'm not advocating a leadership contest at this point, but the idea that there would have to be a general election if the Labour replaced Brown as leader is a complete red herring. There is no substance to it whatsoever.

Personally I don't believe Milliband would fare any better - and he'd also be just as right-wing - if not even more so. There is a presentational aspect to the current situation, but there is also a huge policy aspect - New Labour has run out of steam and its ground has been taken craftily by Cameron (if the Tories will stand for it). If we don't pitch at least somewhat to the left - to something more of what used to be called a social democratic agenda - then we are finished for the moment.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#7)

by doctordunc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:38:56 AM GMT

Well one way to ensure any candidate can't win is to suggest that it is an accepted common sense that they can't.

If there is a contest - and it is beginning to look like there will be - I will support John McDonnell, if he chooses to stand (and I hope he will).  My second preference would be up for grabs. 

I don't want to be uncomradely and attack someone, but I just don't understand why there would be a coalition around Jon Cruddas.  I don't know what he's supposed to have done or said that would make me consider voting for him.  Nothing personal - I just don't see what differentiates him from 90% of Labour backbenchers or what would make him a left or centre-left candidate.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#9)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:53:54 AM GMT

McDonnell is a mirror of John Hutton from the other wing of the party. They are both minority tastes!

But of course if he wishes to stand, he should, if he can get the signatures.  He struggled last time to get all the compass signatures, didn't he? It might actually be easier for him after the general election, if there are fewer MPs. 

As for Cruddas - he didn't even want to be deputy prime minister, remember? He merely wanted to be deputy leader and didn't even get that. How on earth does he make the leap to Prime Minister?

Whoever gets the leadership will be someone moderate whom all wings of the party can deal with. Perhaps Denham, moderate but not Blairite or Brownite and opposed Iraq, which should appeal to the Labour left.
 
Or Jacqui Smith if she survives the election.

At one point I would have said Hillary Benn, but he didn't do so well in the deputy leadership.

Some wags in the press are suggesting Harriet Harman - but she only got the leadership job by emphasising how close she was to Gordon Brown (remember?!), plus getting transfers from the Cruddas people. 

I really think our party is doing itself no favours by discussing this now. It's bad on so many fronts. Also changing leaders like this is simply not the Labour tradition, it's what the Tories and LibDems do, and fat lot of good it did them. Since electing John Major in 1990, the Tories have had five leadership contests, one of which was held before 1997. The public just shakes their head at this sort of stuff. And the press feel ever more powerful when they realise they can induce leadership elections simply by pressing for them.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#10)

by doctordunc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:28:09 PM GMT

While I agree, it isn't what we've done,  the discussion is pretty much being forced on us.  I realise that's partly by a hostile media, and we should resist that; but it also seems to be by some ministers and leading figures who seem to be pretty openly talking about making a move.

I'm only talking about who I would support in the event of a contest.  I don't think the left should take action to engineer one.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#12)

by Graham on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 01:13:32 PM GMT

I wouldn't call myself a Brownite, but I have to say I have no taste for the utter self-indulgence that is about to engulf the party if some people don't take a step back here.

If there is a real push for a leadership election, then we will see the Labour Party face several months more complete introspection.  We will then be forced into an early election in the Autumn long before any chance of an economic recovery, which will probably mean losing in 2008 rather than wait and see until 2010.

Is this what we really want for ourselves? I know I don't.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#15)

by Sibboleth on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 02:16:42 PM GMT

"We just need to grit our collective teeth and ride out this frenzy in the press. They'll soon get bored and turn on some other party."

Hear, hear. 

People need to remember what time of year this is; there's very little domestic news that the media has much interest in and news from abroad is something they're never really that keen on. So this year they've decided to fill the gap with meaningless speculation, dubious leaks, gossip and flat-out lies about the future of the PM. This isn't something that Labour activists should encourage.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#16)

by Reasonablesocialist on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 03:23:17 PM GMT

The simple truth is that if we stick with Brown-Harman we will be annihilated.

To give ourselves a fighting chance we need a leadership contest.

The time is now.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#17)

by DDave3 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 03:40:13 PM GMT

The media are tripping over themselves to publish the latest gossip they receive from just an-oh-so-brave anonymous Labour MP. Frankly, this deluge of negative and destruction briefing from MPs who don't even have the balls to come out publicly and say what they believe is ultimately damaging the Labour party. Whilst the Labour party is nasal-gazing and MPs only interested in saving their seats, the public looks on and summarises that Labour now deem them a complete irrelevance. We, as party members and activists, can debate to death the names and manoeuvrings of Labour MPs but the public won't care. If Brown does go, we will have to enter a leadership election that will last at least three months and we will be obliged to call a General Election that we can neither afford or are prepared to fight right now.

These Labour MPs who continually anonymously brief should either put up or shut up. It's destroying the Labour party.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#49)

by DevonChap on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:57:37 PM GMT

Nasal Gazing!. I love the idea of you all looking up each others noses. What you are doing is NAVEL gazing, as in you belly button. Talk about a party that doesn't know its anatomy from it elbow!


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#18)

by RedRooster on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 03:53:40 PM GMT

NothernMonkey is apparently influential enough that his post is quoted on the front page of the guardian website.

My gut feeling is that if the best the media can come up with is an anonymous quote on a community blog, then they're grasping at straws.  Unless NM would care to go into a bit more detail of where these 'rumours' are coming from?

For the record I'm undecided on the leadership issue, but I do think it's utterly ridiculous how the media seems to be purely reporting on itself on this issue, rather than on anything that is actually happening. 


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#19)

by doctordunc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:04:58 PM GMT

Note though that Miliband said 'he will lead us forward to address the big issues' rather than 'he will lead us forward into the next General Election' which is what he has said every other time he has been asked.  Also reminding us that Gordon Brown is the leader is not really all that reassuring to Brown.

To be honest, this half-denial from Miliband rather confirms that he's thinking of making some sort of move, though it may raise questions about the timing.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#25)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 06:10:27 PM GMT

It illustrates the perils of making threads like this the lead on sites like this.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#36)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:56:53 PM GMT

What can I say? I'm clearly a man of great influence!


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#20)

by trial on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 05:27:32 PM GMT

Those who think this might work are drastically underestimating the unpopularity of Labour out there at the moment. How many elections do we need to loose before you get the message? We need more radical change than that - both in policy and the standard bearer. Yvette Cooper is genuinely a fresh face with a smart head and the potential for a new approach, and look here, a lot of folk are taking to her already:

http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/7/30/93912/2507


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#27)

by Group51 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:19:14 PM GMT

Yvette Cooper?  Wasn't she the one dissembling about that 10p tax thing?  I think I saw her speech at the last conference, I wasn't moved.  Perhaps you can point to an more inspiring You Tube video or something.

In the meantime: Milliband-Cruddas for me.  But it all depends on what Milliband means by 'radical'.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#22)

by Free Radical on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 05:46:37 PM GMT

Wasn't the "dream ticket" a phrase that came from the choice of Kinnock as Leader and Roy Hattersley as deputy? ...just checking


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#26)

by sgthowie on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:18:46 PM GMT

Sounds like a nightmare ticket if you ask me!!  Miliband's article in The Guardian today was as inspiring as an episode of 'Arthur Negus Enjoys' from 1973, with apologies to the late Arthur Negus.

To use an awfully hackneyed cliche 'it's about policies, not personalities'.  Miliband and Johnson will continue with the New Labour policies of opposing any extension of workers rights, restrained public spending, privatisation and a refusal to seriously tackle inequality.

Both McDonnell or Cruddas only seem capable of changing direction.  McDonnell representing the old left wing of the party and Cruddas closer to the old right.  

My preference would be for McDonnell because of his consistancy in arguing for a genuinely alternative agenda.  However, I have a feeling Cruddas may attend to appeal to the soft left of the current PLP and the socialist campaign group may, regrettably, have nowhere else to go.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#28)

by Group51 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:21:13 PM GMT

The last thing Milliband can do now is set out new policies!  He is not the Prime Minister!  Just as in last years deputy leadership campaign, we'll have to wait for an interregnum before hearing what they really think.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#30)

by otware on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:29:26 PM GMT

I wish Cruddas hadn't backed 42 days. But nevertheless he has already been shown to be popular in the deputy election, most popular in fact on the 1st preferences.

Personally I would be happy to see Cruddas as leader and a mor traditional lefty as deputy. Cruddas - McDonnell? 


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#31)

by Free Radical on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 10:26:05 PM GMT

Cruddas is quite right-wing. He voted for Iraq but regrets it (who doesn't?) and he's voted for all the authoritarian infringements of civil liberties. 42-days is just the latest.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#35)

by otware on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:05:17 PM GMT

I know he is quite right wing, but I can't think of anyone else =(. McDonnell getting the nominations is an issue.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#29)

by tim on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:27:59 PM GMT

There is nothing,absolutely nothing to lose.We're 25% in the polls for gods sake.
Much of the Tory leaders poll ratings are frail as they are predicated on the fact that he is shallow and lightweight.
But Brown can't lay a glove on him

Those who argue that its about policy alone are wrong.
sit in a room with people when Brown talks about policy.
Noone listens.
Many Labour people I know just cringe and won't defend him against Tory and Lib Dem friends.

Can you imagine trying to get out the vote for Brown-Harman at an election?


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#33)

by Group51 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 10:38:25 PM GMT

Who said it is about policy alone?  We're saying that not changing policy will continue the disaster (who ever is Leader).  


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#34)

by NB on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:02:52 PM GMT

Johnson has all but confirmed that he is running with Miliband, and however you look at it Miliband's article is a devastating attack on Gordon.  But, as another poster has remarked, what would Gordon do if he were ousted?  Would he out-sulk Ted Heath?


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#37)

by Aussiedude on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 04:23:57 AM GMT

G'day all!
Greetings from Sydney, Australia!
I'm an Aussie political tragic, with a great and abiding interest in U.K politics, particularly the British Labour Party.
My take: Brown is dead in the water! If your lot are to have any chance of at least saving some of the furniture, you've got to change leaders. The government needs a new salesman out front. As good and principled as he is, Gordon just isn't getting his message heard by the general populace.
Is Milliband the answer? I don't know! He at least has better media presentation skills, from what I've seen of his press conferences as Foreign Secretary.
THE SPECTATOR was recently trumpeting James Purnell as a possible successor: any support for him here?
Follow the example set by the Australian Labor Party! If Kim Beazley hadn't been ousted in late 2006, John Howard would very likely have won a 5th term.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#41)

by otware on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:48:35 AM GMT

James Purnell - I don't think so! That's a change of direction in the wrong direction. Anyway, some commentators are saying he will back Miliband.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#42)

by doctordunc on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:50:57 AM GMT

Please let me know which public school Keir Hardie attended!


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#47)

by doctordunc on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:46:20 PM GMT

75 years?  (Just trying to remember when Lansbury was leader... I think he might catch you out!)  Also, not sure whether Portsmouth Northern Secondary School was a grammar when Callaghan was there or not...

Anyway, be that as it may, it is instructive that those members who are considered a little too intellectual to have the job (the Milibands and Hilary Benn) were educated at comprehensive schools.  A great advert for what a comprehensive education can be like.

I think the Labour Party would love to select a leader who didn't attend either a public school or a grammar school, to be quite honest, though I don't think the schools people's parents sent them to should be held against them!


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#48)

by otware on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:52:14 PM GMT

Also do remember than sometimes people really had no choic but to attend a grammar school to get a good education. My father is from a northern family, he went to grammar school and then on to uni and he is about a socialist as they come. As inspirational as it may be for him to have not gone to grammar school out of protest, that would have left him with a worse education. At the end of the day education is one of the most important things, and back in the day if you had a chance at a grammar school can you blame people for taking it?


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#50)

by doctordunc on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:02:30 PM GMT

I had three years at a state grammar school myself (three miserable years).

But of course, before the comprehensive revolution, a grammar school education was of enormous value.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#43)

by Croslander on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:51:16 AM GMT

As enjoyable as this all is, it is probably worth reminding ourselves that the media are primarily stirring this leadership stuff up because it is summer and they have nothing else to write about, not because it necessarily warrants this coverage.

Also anyone expecting Harman to quit as DL to demurely make way for a new L/DL team is living in dreamland.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#51)

by NB on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:06:41 PM GMT

Er - the Foreign Secretary writes a public attack on the PM, MPs are calling on the PM to go, Ministers are openly telling journalists that they have lost confidence in Brown - but it's all just the media ?!?  I think not.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#57)

by Alex on Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 09:27:54 PM GMT

In any case I'm quite sure very few voters care who the deputy leader of the party is when casting their votes.  The idea of a leader/deputy leader "dream ticket" is pretty irrelevant to British politics...


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#44)

by madasafish on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:21:48 PM GMT

Yes: it's all the medias's fault.


The mantra of every political party that dares not face reality because it means they are doing the wrong things.


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#46)

by snowflake5 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:41:11 PM GMT

People won't turn to the LibDems. They've lost their USP as the "nice party". Part of it was the way they ditched Charlie Kennedy (their most successful leader since Lloyd George). The LibDems then compounded things by knifing poor old Ming, simply because he was old (and he was only 66, which is not very old at all). The thing about Kennedy was that Labour voters could see him in our party, and hence were happy to vote LibDem tactically or in protest.  Labour voters don't feel the same affinity with Nick Clegg - especially as he is leaning right and has actually promised to prop up a Tory govt in the event of a hung parliament.  

And the mutterings on the ground about LibDem election tactics (from both Tory and Labour activists) have been intensifying in recent years and is becoming mainstream.

The most interesting part of what is going on at the moment (from a detached point of view) is that the LibDems arn't benefitting from Labour woes, it's the Green party that is picking up Labour people.  See London, Henley, Brighton and other places for this phenomenon.

Essentially in England, on the left you have the Greens and Labour. On the right you have the Tories and LibDems. the BNP pick up the fascist vote in areas where the Tories don't stand a candidate (eg Barking).

P.S. It amused me when you said that people think that John Major is responsible for 11 years of Labour growth! LOL. John Major is the man who gave us the severe 1990's recession, Black Wednesday and who increased the national debt by over £200bn (double the amount of debt Labour have managed).

It's a sign of pure desperation when Tories try to take credit for Labour achievements. Other examples of this are Tories trying to claim that the falling crime under 11 years of Labour was down to what Michael Howard did in his last year of govt (never mind the previous 17 Tory years when crime soared), Tories trying to claim the NHS for their own, when it is a purely Labour achievement, which the Tories fought tooth and nail at it's inception. Tories trying to claim credit for NATO, when the idea was conceived under a Labour govt (the idea of collective defence being in accordance with our DNA), and it was a Labour foreign secretary who persuaded the Americans to sign on the dotted line. And so on.

The only real achievement the Tories have to their name is taking us into the EU and signing the Single Act and Maastricht which brought us EU harmonisation and directives, and the social chapter. But typically, as soon as the Single European Act came into force in 1993, Tories started complaining about their own work! Yours is a weird and puzzling tribe!


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#56)

by adwilliams134 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 11:13:51 PM GMT

#46.  It's funny you say all that about John Major.  Go and have a read of the stats.  No Prime Minister has ever got as many votes in total than him.  Not Thatcher, not Blair, not Wilson,  none.  Not even Churchill. 

Vote-wise he's the most popular PM we've ever had.


[ Parent ]

Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#52)

by FireFrog on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:23:05 PM GMT

As someone who cares about the country, and is not desperate to see it thrown to the conservatives - but would rather that than more of being bullied by Brown - it seems to me the Labour party needs to stop staring up its own fundament and instead to:

a) have the guts to dispense with the disaster you have a for a leader before he knee-jerks into throwing away any more money

 

b) elect someone dynamic, intelligent and actually posessed of some integrity. David Miliband seems an obvious choice, but I am prepared to be talked out of that.  I think Jack Straw would be good, but can't see him having the guts to take it.

 

c) there's no need for an election now.  You could wait until next spring which is plenty of time for a new man (please not a woman unless there's a better choice than HH) at number 10 to make the necessary impact.  

 

good luck

 

FF 


Re: The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket (#58)

by adwilliams134 on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 11:24:47 AM GMT

Shouldn't this be titled The Miliband-Johnson in your dreams ticket?

Disaster written all over it.  Anything connected to New Labour idealogy - Blairist or Brownite - is in for a kicking come 2010.


[ Parent ]

The Miliband-Johnson dream ticket | 54 comments (54 topical)