What would bring me back into the Labour fold

syd4444 Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:22:42 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

I was a Labour Party member for about ten years. I left the party about six months after the 97 election, I saw the writing on the wall even then. I felt the Party was about to ride roughshod over its core support and it has proven to be the case.
One of the first things the MP's did 1997, was to award themselves a whopping 20 odd % pay rise. A few months later Gordon Brown made a speech in which he said, "Local Authority Workers will have to accept inflation or less than inflation wage rises for the foreseeable future". Having listened to this same statement from the Tories for eighteen years and now eleven years on from the 1997 election, I, as a Local Authority Worker have seen my earnings deteriorate year on year. It's not all bad news though, some public sector workers have had some really good salary deals, over inflation wage rises, limousines to get ferried about in, expenses to go to work and to furnish their second homes, and would you believe it subsidised bars and restaurants at their place of work. As you have probably guessed by now, these public sector workers are none other than the MP's of our great country. I would never have believed, I would live to see the day a Labour Government, could tax the ordinary person in society til the pips squeaked. Changed days.



Now, what would bring me back to the Labour fold.

1. Labour should seriously think through their tax policy and stop fleecing the little people.
2. Scrap all speed cameras, except the ones at recognised accident black spots.
3. Take a lead in the war on terror and stop kowtowing to our friends in America.
4. Give Scotland fiscal autonomy, and stop the Scots voting on English matters. I say this as a Scot.
5. Sort out the high costs of energy, the silence of the energy regulators is deafening.
6. The billions that is raised through road tax, spend more of it on the road system and stop milking the motorist.
7. I can think of a lot more but even implementing four out of the six mentioned could temp me to vote Labour again. To join the Labour Party again would take a lot more.


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What would bring me back into the Labour fold | 19 comments (19 topical)

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#1)

by Floating voter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:54 PM GMT

"....implementing four out of the six mentioned could temp me to vote Labour again"

What would you do if the tories did four out of six? So far they seem to be doing (or considering) 4 on your list

2) Scrap speed cameras - being done in Swindon and "watched"
4) Stop the scots voting on English matters
5) Energy costs - Osbournes "fiscal regulator" or whatever he called it (sounds dodgy to me)
6) Spend more on roads - an old tory favourite.

Will you be "crossing the floor of the house"?


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#2)

by syd4444 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:07:54 AM GMT

It probably wouldn't be hard to cross floor of the house because after eleven years of Labour being in power, it feels to me no different as to when the Tories were in power, but then again living in Scotland I have the luxuary of lending my vote to the SNP. Having said all that I would still like to see Labour do somethings that would temp me and a lot of the core support back to the fold, I am a natural Labour supporter believe it or not.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#3)

by Anonymous X on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 02:01:56 AM GMT

This is a key issue that New Labour urgently needs to address - "because after eleven years of Labour being in power, it feels to me no different as to when the Tories were in power" - i.e. natural Labour supporters like yourself no longer *feeling* a noticeable difference between the Labour and Tory brands.


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#4)

by jdc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 07:38:43 AM GMT

Wow. Just... what were you doing in the Labour Party? I think I'd be tempted to leave if we became the political wing of the Association of British Drivers. It's bad enough that we're thinking about becoming the political wing of the British Bankers' Association...


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#10)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:08:08 AM GMT

Speed cameras are only placed in spots where there have been at least four road deaths anyway. The idea that they are "un-necessary" is risible. Indeed there are many communities who apply for speed cameras and get turned down, as there isn't enough evidence that there is a danger.

And in any case, people who speed have more money than brains. The OP complains that he doesn't earn enough - and then wants to burn his money speeding!  Slow your speed, you use less fuel and save money.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#13)

by AngryVoter on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 05:52:04 PM GMT

Yes and no.

Many in Derbyshire are, simply because we don't get the funding to put more up.

However, a number of cameras have gone in places where a "Road death" has been logged, but no actual collision with a vehicle resulting in death has happened. There's at least one place I know of in Gloustershire where people jumping off of a bridge into a river [to their deaths] has resulted in it being used as an excuse to shove cameras up in their place.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#5)

by degauntier on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 08:32:52 AM GMT

Strikes me that what you're advocating is the Tory "me" over the Labour"us".


1) Two points about tax.  Countries with the highest quality of life, tend to have a higher tax take - yet in the UK, tax freedom day fell 21 days earlier than in the European Union.  Take that as you will.  Secondly, tax take as a proportion of income under Labour has been lower than or equal to the best that Maggie achieved in all but two years (that is tax as a proportion of average household income) (http://www.adamsmith.org/a-history-of-tax-freedom-day/).  So fundamentally, I believe that we're not taxing too much; we're just not using it as well as we could be.  Indeed, there are certain circumstances (oil company profits, inheritance) where I personally believe we don't tax enough.

2) I'm sorry, but the only people who argue the toss about speed cameras are those who are too selfish to follow the rules of the road.  Drivers know the speed limit, and so they know when they're exceeding the limit that they're breaking the law (bear in mind that, to be prosecuted, you normally have to break the limit by *at least* 10% + 2mph - that's a 17% at 30mph or nearly 13% at 70mph).  The rules of the road are not just there for the safety of individual drivers, but for that of all other road users as well - ergo, it is not up to the individual to decide what rules should or should not be followed.

3) Take a lead on the war on terror.  How exactly?  What *is* the war on terror?  Because it strikes me that what you're advocating is war against an abstract noun - which is a bit of a challenge, really.  Rather than pushing for that, why not restate our aims in respect of existing conflicts (Iraq and Afghanistan), and refocus our resources on the things we're good at (and which incidentally result in many fewer casulaties) - peacekeeping and short-term stabilsation of volatile circumstances.

4) I'm not convinced by your argument on the West Lothian issue,  but I don't think it would be a good idea, for many of the reasons which have been trotted out numerous times in the past.

5) The high costs of energy are likely to be with us for some time, I'm afraid.  However, I'd like to see some really bold moves - bringing forward the Severn Barrage (which could generate 10% of the UK's electricity requirement at current use; if we can cut wastage that proportion could substantially improve), cutting the means of objecting to wind turbines, innovative uses of microgeneration.  That is how we will cut the prices and ensure our supply for the long term; reliance on oil and gas will only see it rise.

6) The motorist isn't being milked - if you look at the recent RAC report (http://www.rac.co.uk/web/library/pdfs/rom-2008-report-one.pdf) you will see that the cost of motoring, in real terms, is still falling.  And I really don't think that a return to hypothecated taxes in this country is a good idea, as it the provides an incentive to encourage those things that are being taxed, such as car use in this case.


Given the policies you advocate, frankly I'm glad you're no longer a member of the Party and setting the agenda - they're self serving and while they might be good for you in the short term, they're damn well going to be bad for us as a whole in the long term (and by us, I mean the country not the Labour Party).   

I sincerely hope that the Party doesn't bow down to these selfish and ultimately futile gestures and sticks to real policies which benefit all of us. 


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#6)

by Tankist on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 09:19:42 AM GMT

All those billions taken from beer tax, stop fleecing the drinkers and build better pubs. My local has a crap jukebox.


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#7)

by jdc on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 09:28:56 AM GMT

I went to a pub last Friday and the website said it had a pinball machine. I got there and it didn't. What the hell is Gordon Brown playing at? Why haven't the Government done something about this? I pay my taxes.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#9)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:03:52 AM GMT

LOL. Did you know that the Labour givernment halved beer duty for pubs that brew their own beer? 


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#8)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:02:39 AM GMT

1. Labour should seriously think through their tax policy and stop fleecing the little people

Umm, tax on the "little people", as you call them, has actually gone down in the last eleven years.

* Basic rate income tax was 23% in 1997, it's 20% now

* VAT on domestic fuel was 8% in 1997, it's 5% now

*  Stamp Duty threshold raised from £60,000 in 1997 to £125,000 now

* Abolition of the 2% employee N.I. "entry fee" payable on earnings from £0 - LEL, when earnings crossed the lower earnings limit

* Abolition of the 3% employer N.I. "entry fee" payable on earnings from £0 - LEL, when earnings crossed the lower earnings limit

* Child tax credit introduced and extended for families who earn £58,000 and below

*People with disabilities who got back to work entitled to tax credit

*Child-care tax-credit introduced for people who place their children in nurseries

If you run a small business,

*For businesses with turnover of up to £58,000, VAT is not charged at all.

*Automatic entitlement for business to reclaim VAT on bad debts after six months, introduced for the first time

*Small business corporation tax cut from 23% to 22%


And so on

The only thing that has gone up is National Insurance, and that is up by 1%. Basic rate taxpayers are still better off, as this is more than offset by the cut in income tax. Higher rate taxpayers have seen an increase of 1% over the upper earnings limit


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#14)

by AngryVoter on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 05:53:32 PM GMT

Now start adding in the little stealth taxes and we might be talking sense here...


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#16)

by snowflake5 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 07:02:36 PM GMT

Why don't you add them? People talk about "stealth tax" but tend to be hard pressed to say exactly what they are...

For the low-paid, tax has definitely gone down. It's higher-rate taxpayers who have had to pay more in the form of the 1% NI above the Upper Earnings Limit - but that was done openly, not in a stealthy way.  


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#11)

by syd4444 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:03:37 PM GMT

If everything is as good as you are all pointing out to me, why is Labour rushing towards defeat at the next election. There is a lot of  the grass roots support turning their backs on Labour, why would this be, if everything in the garden is so rosy. Is there something I'm missing here.


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#12)

by syd4444 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 04:24:38 PM GMT

Forgot to mention, not giving the public a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, now that was a big own goal. I take my hat off to the Irish.


Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#15)

by jkitleft on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 06:15:37 PM GMT

A treaty that needed no referendum. It gave powers back to us. For the first time, it allowed for a mechanism whereby countries could leave the EU. National parliaments could veto EU legislation with a third of votes. QMV meant that a majority of countries, and a majority of EU citizens have to agree to pass legislation. It allowed the European Parliament to vote down particular items of a budget, which meant that the obscene subsidies would be voted down. Our opt outs would have been strengthened. And the EU president and foreign minister meant not that we were signing away our foreign policy as the Sun claimed, but only because the EU is the biggest threat to Murdoch's stranglehold on our democracy. It meant that European countries could better co-operate over human rights, climate change and fighting terror.


So I'm sorry if I'm not cheering the Irish for voting down a treaty that could significantly help Africa, and veer America away from bombing Iran.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#17)

by otware on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 11:35:52 PM GMT

Yes the problem with eurosceptics is that they either see red whenever 'EU' is mentioned and instinctively plot against it without understanding, or they deliberately sabotage it to keep it crippled and shit - then use that as an excuse to leave!

And you're right, a lot of it is whipped up by Murdoch. 


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#18)

by jkitleft on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 01:12:50 PM GMT

If we properly dissect the treaty, the fundamental importance of it can be understood. But in Ireland, the public was being told by Eurosceptics that abortion laws would have to be changed, in the same way the Sun tells us we will lose our UN veto.

Indeed, I changed my mind over breaking up media monopolies when I saw Murdoch at a Parliamentary select commitee, saying that he tells the editors what party to declare support for at an election, and the editorial stance on Europe.


[ Parent ]

Re: What would bring me back into the Labour fold (#19)

by syd4444 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 07:23:50 PM GMT

Why do you assume I'm a euro sceptic. I am pro-euro,but when a party offers me the chance to vote in a referendum, I take a dim view when they renege on that manifesto commitment.


[ Parent ]

What would bring me back into the Labour fold | 19 comments (19 topical)