Meet the most anti gay MP in the House of Commons

I was somewhat shocked when I read the following in Iain Dale's Diary, from which I have also copied the post title.

"Imagine, if you will, that a Conservative or Labour MP had uttered these words in the middle of an official parliamentary committee...

There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing innocent children. There must be sufficient confidence that the community has the best possible protection against such perverts, and it is important that there be a mature public debate on the issues, but the security of our citizens must be our overriding priority.

From Hansard
Imagine further, that when asked about those remarks the MP "clarified" them in these terms...

I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality. I think they are all comparable. I feel totally repulsed by both.
The MP in question was not a Conservative or Labour MP, but leading DUP MP Iris Robinson, who also happens to be married to the leader of the DUP and the First Minister of Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson. If Mrs Robinson had been an English MP for one of the main political parties the London based media would have, by now, hung her out to dry. She would also have been disowned by her party.

I did an interview on this for BBC Radio Ulster this morning. Strangely Mrs Robinson did not appear to defend herself, neither did anyone else from the DUP. During the interview Mrs Robinson released a statement to further "clarify" her remarks. Apparently she didn't really mean it. Let me fisk her remarks. My comments in italics.

The remarks in the Grand Committee report do not accurately reflect my views.
Strange you should have been so definitive in your comments then.
While I will be seeking to check the Committee recording, what I clearly intended to say was that child abuse was worse even than homosexuality and sodomy.
Worse EVEN? I should think so seeing as though homosexuality is actually legal in this country.
While I have strong views on homosexual activity based on the Scriptures, it can in no way be equated with child abuse.
Good, we're making progress of sorts.
If that had been the impression I created at the Committee, I would have expected other Committee members to correct me immediately.
They were probably in shock.
At no point have I set out to suggest homosexuality was worse than child sex abuse.
Er, yes you did. Both in the debate and in the Belfast Telegraph this morning. See above.
There can be no comparison between the two. My entire contribution at that Committee meeting was about highlighting the gravity of sex offences and indeed calling for stronger sentences.
Pity you didn't draft your speech more carefully then, isn't it, love?

Whenever I see a statement from a politician which contains the words "What I meant to say..." I can see that they have been leant on. In this case probably over the breakfast table. Mrs Robinson has form on this issue. A few weeks ago she said that homosexuals should receive psychological counselling in order to be cured of their condition. I have to say that it's not me who needs to see a psychiatrist.

It's a free country and I fully defend Mrs Robinson's right to come out with such bigoted, ill judged claptrap. But by doing so she just reinforces existing prejudices among certain people who then feel expressing them in a violent way is somehow acceptable and can be defended because of the "scriptures". Not long ago a gay man in Belfast was beaten to death in a violent, homophobic attack. While I am sure Mrs Robinson, being a good Christian, would never condone any form of homophobic attack, she should not be surprised if her remarks give succour to those who perpetrate them."

 

 I think we can probably find a bit of bi-party agreement here. Finally, I only hope Gordon Brown thought it was worth snuggling up to the DUP to get 42 days passed in the House.



Display: Sort:

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP (#1)

Really? Rape isn't as bad? Genocide? Blowing up car bombs? Oh, wait. As a Northern Ireland christian fundamentalist, the latter probably doesn't register as bad.

Meet the most anti gay MP in the House (#2)

The majority of the comments on Iain’s post do an admirable job doing down the “bigoted aul XXXXX’ but a surprising number of them offer defence!

For pure partisan mischief – I republish some of the comments that appeared on his blog:

Andrew Lilico said...
Iain,
Whilst Mrs Robinson's comparisons between homosexuality and child abuse are obviously offensive and rather infantile, I presume that you would not seek to condone violent attacks upon paedophiles any more than you would upon practicing homosexuals? I have a slight concern that your comments here might be mistakenly taken that way...

Anonymous said…
“…There is a tendency for gay people to forget that many people are concerned that the way we are going -and your reaction to the ladies view helps that concern- it will not be long before homosexuality will be mandatory!”

John MacLeod said...
Steady, Iain. Mrs Robertson's views on this issue - that homosexual behaviour is repulsive and wrong - have never been a secret and are presumably endorsed by her constituents and, indeed, still by a great many British people. While her linkage between consensual homosexual behaviour and the sexual abuse of children was crass, it was an explicitly emotional comment - a gut-reaction - rather than a considered statement of moral equivalence. It is certainly important robustly to engage with such views and to challenge them, if you do not share them; but you cross a distinct line by actually denouncing them as illegitimate - because that is not argument; that is intimidation.

Anonymous said...
Iain, calm down dear !
You have to understand that people of a religious persuasion have a right to view homosexuality with different eyes than yourself. They also view heterosexual sex with a different set of standards.

Alcuin said...
It is a point of view, and this being a free country, she is as entitled to think and say so as you are to abhor it. I should not like to live in this country the day that expressing such views became illegal.
As for "anti-gay", I am not sure she is. If she were to treat gay people differently in her professional life, that is to be fought through the law. If she is rude or disdainful to gay people, then she should be scolded. But for merely saying this, even in public, she can only be treated with disdain.

haddock said...
Perhaps you will post a piece on the freedom of speech for those who believe that homosexuality is a perversion, and why such a belief is "bigoted, ill judged claptrap". Will you will explain how being beaten up for being'gay' is any worse than being beaten up for 'looking at someone a bit funny' ?
It is likely that a majority of people in the country do NOT agree with you, we were never asked; we were told, by people like you, what we must now think and say.
Still, it gives you a top trump in the debate, scream ( best do it in a girly voice) homophobe !.... and no more rational debate.

Mr Richard Nixon said...
The DUP is very popular and I suspect most of her supporters endorse her views. I agree with her. And I have every right to find homosexuality repulsive and contrary to nature.
Why is it that gays and other abnormals just can't about their business quietly? Why is it necessary for everybody to accept their "lifestyle" and be pilloried if they utter anything against them.
Good luck to the lady.

Stewart Cowan said...
“…The MP is disgusted by homosexual acts. So am I. So are millions of people: most of them too afraid to say in Stasi Britain.”
“…We were assured just a few years ago that the loss of the safeguards in Section 28 would not change anything, but already we have trials of picture books like 'Daddy's Roommate' to promote homosexual relationships to young children.”

“…P.S. Mrs Robinson also said that "homosexuals should receive psychological counselling in order to be cured of their condition.
“It can and does happen and those who are healed are very thankful.”

kill em all let god sort em out said...
“Who says we all have to bend over backwards to accommodate homosexuals?
“Who says we all now have to accept that what homosexuals do to each other is acceptable?

“PS Can I buy you a drink and push your stool in for you?”

Anonymous said...
Iain, you really must stop getting so excited every time anyone says anything anti-gay. Why shouldn’t they? If gay people want to be accepted as totally equal members of society they must not surround themselves with a wall of political correctness that prevents any adverse criticism. Just look at the language flung at Mrs Robinson - "bigot, nasty piece of work, infantile, offensive" just from the first few blogs.
Grow up gay men!

Anonymous said...
What a brave and principled woman. I wish we had some like her in England who are not afraid to speak the truth.
Sodomy and the sexual abuse of young children disgusts us all.

gavin said...
Homosexuality and sodomy of children are often related if you believe the criminal records. The vast majority of child molesters are homosexuals.

machiavelli said...
She looks like a lesbian anyway.

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP in the House (#3)

It's a shame that when the Enlightenment values of reason were discussed in European philosophy, it somehow missed this lot of people.

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP in the House (#8)

I too dislike political correctness. And that's why I'm prepared to say that those people above who commented on Dale's blog are utter retards (well, he does tend to attract them).

What a vile woman Mrs. Robinson is. Imagine if she'd said that about Jews or black people - would she still be allowed in the House? Probably not. Still, even in 2008 it's deemed acceptable to hurl abuse at homosexuals.

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP in the House (#13)

Nice word to use retardation. to imply somebody is a retard, sad .

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP in the House (#24)

What do you think of Iris Robinson's remarks treborc?

Because I've got a sneaking suspicion that you support them.

SHOCK HORROR: UK still retains some free speech (#4)

You have one of my comments in there Mr Hanlon under my real name. I know people like me (the majority) aren't supposed to say how we feel.

My fav. comments are these:

Rebel Saint said...

My favourite t-shirt from RightWingStuff.com: "Definition of a Bigot: A conservative winning an argument with a liberal".

Condemning homosexual behaviour isn't bigoted.
Being repulsed by homosexual acts isn't bigoted.

Condemning as hateful or bigoted those whose opinions you disagree with IS hateful and bigoted. Allowing ad hominem attacks does give succour to those who would engage in other attacks.

-----------------------------------------

Mr Richard Nixon said...

Iain Dale said...

"It's a free country and I fully defend Mrs Robinson's right to come out with such bigoted, ill judged claptrap."

But I am also free to condemn her."

And we are free to condemn you for er...condemning her.

I will be investigating how I can contribute to Mrs Robinson's next campaign. If only our mainland figures were as courageous in the face of moral depravity.

------------------------------------

Anonymous said...

For once, it would be refreshing for liberal elite to actually engage in an argument rather than slinging insults at those who disagree with them.

Iain, take note. Calling someone names because you don't like what they say is pretty pathetic. And don't take things so damn personally.

--------------------------------------

The Amazing Toad said...

Iain Dale's Diary;

The most Victim-centric blog on the web.

"Ist", "ism", "phobic", "anti", "offensive"....what a dreary parroting of the last 30 years' zeitgeist.

For Chr*st's sake, what's "normal" about one man putting his reproductive organ in another man's rectum?

---------------------------------------

Anonymous said...

God forbid a politician should be honest and express what they think about sodomy and homosexuality. Principles and beliefs have no place in modern politics.

 

Re: SHOCK HORROR (#5)

Who says you are in the majority? Homophobes do.

You're entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.


The comment which begins "For Christs sake" makes me laugh. This is considering how much religion rants and raves about female genitalia as well.


SHOCK HORROR: "homophobe" insult on L.H. (#6)

I think that considering he is taking the Lord's name in vain, he is perhaps not a Christian....just someone in the majority who feels sincere disgust at homosexual acts. Like I said, the majority, regardless of religious views.

You might like to think that everyone who thinks this way is a "homophobe," but you're wrong on that as well. Way wrong.

To repost one of the quotes from Iain Dale's site:

Anonymous said...

For once, it would be refreshing for liberal elite to actually engage in an argument rather than slinging insults at those who disagree with them.

Iain (jkitleft), take note. Calling someone names because you don't like what they say is pretty pathetic.

Re: Homophobic 'Freedom and Truth' (#9)

Stop blabbering about the 'Lord's' name. He holds about as much sway with me as the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.

And why do you call yourself 'Freedom and Truth' when you want to take away freedom from those you don't like and you constantly make up lies?

Re: Homophobic 'Freedom and Truth' (#11)

I would prefer to believe this isn't some kind of test.


The premise of religion, that god has a plan for all of us, is the very reason I hate Thatcherism. I'm sorry to say to the religious, that I'm not that self-centred, and individualistically vain to believe that the world is all about me, or that the processes of creation had me in mind.

I've already written about why I think religion is man made. Its sheer tautology, and hypocrasy already posess the essence of man.

If god does exist, then he picked a pretty lousy species to enforce dogma upon, and expect obedience. We innately have a sense of right and wrong. People wouldn't have suddenly stopped stealing, or commiting adultery because of the 10 commandments. But most wouldn't have been doing that before either.

I find it offensive to suggest I don't have a sense of right and wrong because I'm an atheist. Many religious people do not want their organs to be donated when they die (does having a heart really matter, even if you are in celestial paradise with the dictator?). They don't want to donate blood. They would happily hack off the genitals of young girls and boys. They know that the argument "Even though contraception prevents disease, you shouldn't use it, because I said so" is unconvincing, so they spread lies about how condoms spread disease. Who is in the right?

The presence of debate, also proves that religion is manmade. The three monotheisms have all too much in common, and yet condemn each other with visceral disgust. Consider how the Archangel Gabriel is prostituted to speaking to an illiterate muslim businessman, and a virgin who unfortunately suffered amnesia, as she cannot remember being told that her son is the son of god. Look how Judaism and Islam have warred, but how Islam takes the worst elements about how women should shroud themselves, and how people shouldn't eat pork. This exacerbates the idea that religion is based on half-understood events and rumours.

A film in 1964 called Mondo Cane, showed how Pacific Islanders reacted to seeing Westerners for the first time. They thought that the white visiters were "their long-mourned ancestors, come back at last with goods from beyond the grave." The messiah for the people of Tana, is an American GI called John Frum.

This is markedly similar to the story of how the monotheisms came about. The estimate of how long humans have been here is around 100,000 years. Religion tells us that for 94,000 years, the compassionate god watched women dying in childbirth, and people living in life expectancies of an average of 20 years, with indifference. Then, he sent the evidence of his existance, not to China where they were literate, but to war torn Middle East. Why hadn't the people of Australia, or the Americas heard this trumphant news? Probably, because they had their own fears of life and death, and were worshipping their own gods.

Their pro-life position is greatly hypocritical. On matters where those who are pro-choice, or pro stem-cell research point out that their positions actually often save lives, and ask how else can we save these people, religious fundamentalists often reply with an assertion that little children who might otherwise survive if for stem-cell research, will be vindicated as a sacrificial lamb by being sent to heaven. When that nasty fundamentalist, Mother Teresa said that "Christ loves suffering", she wasn't 'peverting' the words of the bible. She was carrying on a tradition that many had been carrying out for centuries. 

I find that the belief in a North Korean style dictator, and the dogmas that surround it, prove that religion is man made. The vanity complex is reinforced in the first commandment, reminding us of god's superiority over us, whether he created us out of dust or a clot of blood. This seems to be explained more accurately by the hierarchial structures that emporers had at the time that these events suddenly came to pass. Religion has a hatred of sex, which makes the choice of religion over this particular species, an odd one. The hatred of women, and the constant reminder in all religions that they are inferior, proves that this is man made. Why do all religions have in common the idea of a virgin brith? Because of a hatred of female genitalia. We are being told that reproduction is a ghastly process. Sexual repression is what causes the worst fundamentalism, and a hatred of the very thing they desire. And what of homosexuality? Well, homophobia is inherent in many straight men. A distrust of a minority.

Re: Homophobic 'Freedom and Truth' (#16)

"The premise of religion, that god has a plan for all of us, is the very reason I hate Thatcherism."

You don't understand Thatcherism then. It was about a free-market economy, privatising state run bodies, lower direct taxation and a small welfare state.

Not much in common with religion there.... If you're looking for an ideology to compete with or replace religion then Marxism / Leninism / Communism would suit you better. Why do you think that the Soviets condemned reliigon and that to this day, the chinese do not tolerate religions like Falun Gong.

By and large it is the philosophy of the left that you should intervene in people's lives. That sounds a lot closer to having God having "a plan for everyone"

ID cards anyone.....? 

Re: Homophobic 'Freedom and Truth' (#12)

I would prefer to believe this isn't some kind of test.


The premise of religion, that god has a plan for all of us, is the very reason I hate Thatcherism. I'm sorry to say to the religious, that I'm not that self-centred, and individualistically vain to believe that the world is all about me, or that the processes of creation had me in mind.

I've already written about why I think religion is man made. Its sheer tautology, and hypocrasy already posess the essence of man.

If god does exist, then he picked a pretty lousy species to enforce dogma upon, and expect obedience. We innately have a sense of right and wrong. People wouldn't have suddenly stopped stealing, or commiting adultery because of the 10 commandments. But most wouldn't have been doing that before either.

I find it offensive to suggest I don't have a sense of right and wrong because I'm an atheist. Many religious people do not want their organs to be donated when they die (does having a heart really matter, even if you are in celestial paradise with the dictator?). They don't want to donate blood. They would happily hack off the genitals of young girls and boys. They know that the argument "Even though contraception prevents disease, you shouldn't use it, because I said so" is unconvincing, so they spread lies about how condoms spread disease. Who is in the right?

The presence of debate, also proves that religion is manmade. The three monotheisms have all too much in common, and yet condemn each other with visceral disgust. Consider how the Archangel Gabriel is prostituted to speaking to an illiterate muslim businessman, and a virgin who unfortunately suffered amnesia, as she cannot remember being told that her son is the son of god. Look how Judaism and Islam have warred, but how Islam takes the worst elements about how women should shroud themselves, and how people shouldn't eat pork. This exacerbates the idea that religion is based on half-understood events and rumours.

A film in 1964 called Mondo Cane, showed how Pacific Islanders reacted to seeing Westerners for the first time. They thought that the white visiters were "their long-mourned ancestors, come back at last with goods from beyond the grave." The messiah for the people of Tana, is an American GI called John Frum.

This is markedly similar to the story of how the monotheisms came about. The estimate of how long humans have been here is around 100,000 years. Religion tells us that for 94,000 years, the compassionate god watched women dying in childbirth, and people living in life expectancies of an average of 20 years, with indifference. Then, he sent the evidence of his existance, not to China where they were literate, but to war torn Middle East. Why hadn't the people of Australia, or the Americas heard this trumphant news? Probably, because they had their own fears of life and death, and were worshipping their own gods.

Their pro-life position is greatly hypocritical. On matters where those who are pro-choice, or pro stem-cell research point out that their positions actually often save lives, and ask how else can we save these people, religious fundamentalists often reply with an assertion that little children who might otherwise survive if for stem-cell research, will be vindicated as a sacrificial lamb by being sent to heaven. When that nasty fundamentalist, Mother Teresa said that "Christ loves suffering", she wasn't 'peverting' the words of the bible. She was carrying on a tradition that many had been carrying out for centuries. 

I find that the belief in a North Korean style dictator, and the dogmas that surround it, prove that religion is man made. The vanity complex is reinforced in the first commandment, reminding us of god's superiority over us, whether he created us out of dust or a clot of blood. This seems to be explained more accurately by the hierarchial structures that emporers had at the time that these events suddenly came to pass. Religion has a hatred of sex, which makes the choice of religion over this particular species, an odd one. The hatred of women, and the constant reminder in all religions that they are inferior, proves that this is man made. Why do all religions have in common the idea of a virgin brith? Because of a hatred of female genitalia. We are being told that reproduction is a ghastly process. Sexual repression is what causes the worst fundamentalism, and a hatred of the very thing they desire. And what of homosexuality? Well, homophobia is inherent in many straight men. A distrust of a minority.

Only Sigmund Freud's discussion of the importance of sexuality in our psychology, is a more accurate dissection of sexuality than the Bible. Women are treated as animals, and yet religious men would still see them as a horrible temptation, impossible to resist.

Re: SHOCK HORROR: UK still (#15)

It's HANNON - and I prefer Tony.

Stuart, can I call you Stuart?

If I was on a train and I saw some drunken Nazi Jerk telling a mixed race girl that she was a mongrel and he was frightening her. I'd stop him. Forcefully, if necessary (and he was pretty small!!).

Matter of fact - I once did.

He has the "right" to say whatever he likes to whomever he likes but that's not the issue. Anyone who sits by idly and watches a bully victimise somebody else makes it less likely that they themselves will be defended if they are ever aggressed.

It is immoral and wrong for one person to use their own stupidy to blatantly offend or upset another person for no other reason that the aggressor is bigoted, stupid and uninformed.

That's what this Robinson woman has done to gay people who are just trying to get on in an already pissy world. She's aggressive for no reason than she is stupid. It's her job to actually stand up for people rather than do certain constituents down.

It is more than proper to assert that she is wrong.

I also find it a little rich, Stewie, that all these religous types accuse the rest of us of being brainwashed when we are only looking out for one another and you've all got the anti-gay line from religous rules that you practice on a Sunday!

To borrow a phrase: we're only trying to be "our brother's keepers".

Re: SHOCK HORROR: UK still (#17)

Hear bloody hear.

I think homophobia is the correct phrase to use. Because there are so many ostensible gay bashers, who are hiding their sexuality. They are afraid.


The only basis gay hatred has, is based on lies about homosexuals. That they spread disease, are unfaithful, are promiscuous, or that they are paedophiles etc.


In fact gay marriages last longer. In Denmark, divorce rates for gays is one fifth of that for hetrosexuals. Also, civil unions there increased hetrosexual marriage rates by 10% and divorce fell by 12%.


In the US, where gay marriage is banned, divorce is the highest in the country.


True, evidence shows that gay people are likely to have more partners in one lifetime, and shorter relationships. But this is becoming less true as time goes on, with the above evidence being the reason why.


Luckily, homophobia is dying out. This isn't a namby pamby concern. I could sit here all day listing gay conservatives. That could be due to the normalisaion of gay people's lives. For too long, the idea of 'gay', means being rediculously camp. But homosexuality is just as likely to be found amongst working class men and women, as middle-class or upper-class men and women. Brickies, Police, Doctors, Teachers, Waiters, Soldiers, Builders, you name the profession, and there is a generally proportionate amount of homosexuals (of course it rises amongst prpofessions like rent boys). But now, largely in part to this government, gay people have increased rights with compensation, employment etc., which leads to the wanting of a family and a house etc.


Overall, the percentage in favour of gay rights is mainly in favour, but it drops amongst the elderly, and rises significantly amongst the young. That is why Mr. Cowan's views are dying out.

Re: SHOCK HORROR: UK still (#27)

Sorry about the name Tony - and mine is Stewart so touche!

I stopped following this thread out of depression, but answered this question when you reposted it here.

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP (#7)

I always beleive that these folks [who comment offensively on such matters] imput the word "Homosexual politics" into google or some such every single day, it's the same as the British N Party, so much as mention them as they crawl out of the word-work spilling their bile in defence of their 1% supported party.

It's also possible that the two communities are related, it's fairly well known that the NP's own members are largely internet based [because actual activist numbers are laughably few] and often crawl all over the internet looking for stories to report and comment on back on their own website.

"gavin said...
Homosexuality and sodomy of children are often related if you believe the criminal records. The vast majority of child molesters are homosexuals. "

Yes and no, the powers that be [largely in America] have never investigated straight-sex child abusers, or female child abusers with the same fanatical zeal as they have with Homosexual ones. So it's often a misquoted half truth.

Re: Meet the most anti gay MP (#10)

Indeed, I would condemn homosexual politics, if it formed an identity based ideology. But I think better of the gay people I know, than to think that the way they choose to have sex, is based on some ideological maxims.

The people who do often see homosexuality as superior, are often Nazis, thus the BNP link sharpening up there.


But look at our society today. The debate is no longer about "We're here, we're queer. Get used to it." Now gay people want to buy a home, and settle down.



On the matter of the link between homosexuality and child abuse, Christians are already on the back foot on this point. But lets look at a similar topic: rape. Most rapes are probably rapes against males, by straight men in prison. Rape for instance, is about power.

Sexual abuse isn't much different. There are many factors involved, often very little to do with wether one is hetrosexual or homosexual.

The Great Leader (#14)

"Finally, I only hope Gordon Brown thought it was worth snuggling up to the DUP to get 42 days passed in the House."

Let's get things in perspective. Brown was complicit in the attack on Iraq, which led to the deaths of a million people.

Compared to that, does anybody really think that he'd begrudge his new chums a bit of light hearted gay bashing ?
 
The record shows not.


Re: The Great Leader (#18)

1 million dead in Iraq?

Don't make me laugh, every body counter I can find and matching the coroners reports places actual bona-fide Iraqi citizen deaths [not jihadists from Saudi Arabia, Jordan and beyond] at around 94,000 at the furthest outside over the 6 years.

There's a further 1 million externally displaced, and then around 1.5 million that were internally displaced but most of those have now headed back to their homes since the start of the surge and the Iraqi Army actually got it's act together.

Re: The Great Leader (#19)

Lancet says around 650,000 are dead.

Re: The Great Leader (#20)

I'm going with most of the Iraq Body Counts not stocked to the gills with apologists and such, which still place the displacement as an overal higher number than the dead, which hovers for the most part around 100,000 iraqi civillian dead.

Re: The Great Leader (#22)

ancet is an independent medical journal, and when Blair's scientific advisers were asked, they said the estimates were "close to best practise".

Re: The Great Leader (#23)

'Lancet'

Re: The Great Leader (#28)

Never give a Labour supporter independent advice, facts, evidence....they'll deny it and believe official government fairytales.

Have they forgotten that it was lies that got us into this mess in the first place?

 

Re: The Great Leader (#29)

He's a Tory.

Labour: the party for the poor? Working class? (#30)

Who's a Tory? The false left/right paradigm is to make us think we have a choice?

The actual choice is minimal. 

Labour: the party for the poor? Working class?

After 11 years of 'socialism,' the gap between rich and poor is now wider than it was under the Tories before 1997. 

Read Labour MP Kelvin Hopkins' recent article: Increased poverty is New Labour's shame

10% tax band removed.

Massive influx of cheap labour.

Ask yourself who cares for the British poor and working class.

It's not politicians! Not modern ones anyway by and large, whatever colour of rosette they wear.

Re: Labour: the party for the poor? Working class? (#31)

AngryVoter is a Conservative supporter.

I don't think the left-right axis is a false one. Far from the parties trying to convince us that one exists when it doesn't, they're trying to convince us it doesn't exist when it actually does.

Re: Labour: the party for the poor? Working class? (#32)

AngryVoter is a Conservative supporter.

Oh dear.

I don't think the left-right axis is a false one. Far from the parties trying to convince us that one exists when it doesn't, they're trying to convince us it doesn't exist when it actually does.

It exists only to offer a limited difference to keep the proles happy - to encourage in us a sort of tribal mentality, so that the 'us' versus 'them' is red against blue (yellow, orange, green), when it should be about the citizens against the globalist manipulators and profiteers.

Seems we're too busy fighting with each other to bother with the common enemy!

Re: The Great Leader (#26)

I'm glad you think it's a laughing matter AngryVoter.

If you are interested in evidence, the Lancet study that JKitleft refers to can be read at http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf. The paper estimates excess mortality following the 2003 invasion at 654,965 deaths up to July 2006. Of these 601,027 were estimated to be due to violence, mostly gunfire. Since these figures only extend to July 2006 they are likely to be an underestimate.

The reason that such a study, based upon standard sampling techniques, was necessary was that the "allies" made no attempt to compile accurate figures on Iraqi deaths.

I'm not laughing.

Leave her alone (#21)

In these days of political correctness and oh-so-neutral political speak, there's something refreshingly honest about a bigot.

At least she says what she thinks. You know where she stands!

;-)

Re: Leave her alone (#25)

She stands in the Tiber.  Knife in hand.

Re: Leave her alone (#33)

To understand how this woman thinks,  you have to put it in the context of Northern Ireland politics which is radically different to here on the mainland.   I lived over there for 4 years so I know.  Basically it goes like this:-

 

DUP – Democratic Ulster Unionists. Largest protestant party.  The political wing of the Free Presbyterian faith. Home of Ian Paisley.  Working class, right wing, protestant.  Similar in out look to the BNP.

 

OUP – Official Unionist Party . Next largest Unionist party.  Protestant,  middle class. Similar in outlook to ‘shire’ tories.

 

PUP – Progressive Unionist Party.  Formerly a protestant paramilitary terrorist grouping.  Now hung up their balaclavas.

 

AP – Alliance Party.  Sort of like our old Liberal Party of the Jeremy Thorpe days.

 

SDLP – Social Democratic & Labour Party.  Catholic, Nationalist party.  Working Class in the old Labour style.  Roots in the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s

 

Sinn Fein – ‘Ourselves Alone’ Catholic, Republican sort of quasi-marxist revolutionaries. Political wing of the Provisional IRA.

 

IRSP – Irish Republican Socialist Party. Catholic, Maoist revolutionaries, Republican. Political wing of the INLA.

 

WP – Workers Party.  Communist.  The last remnants of the old Official IRA.

 

Bit of a strange thing Northern Irish politics.  There are only 2 things that count – religion and the border.  Anything else is a minor irritation and of no importance at all.