Brown shouldn't go down alone

TonyH Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 10:59:37 AM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Whoever it is, the next leader of the Labour Party is probably a current cabinet member. If things keep going as they are, and we’re allowed to slump to a record defeat – Gordon’s shouldn’t be the only career to pay the price.



Gordon isn’t the only one presiding over this mess and if none of his colleagues in the Cabinet have the courage to tap him on the shoulder and ask him to step aside, then none of them deserve to become next leader after a likely general election defeat in 2010.

Gordon’s hope on the economy recovering is the most hopeless strategy I’ve ever heard. Look at the growth rate from 1995 to 1997 and consider that Major was still wiped out.  

I was reminded this week about why I joined the Party: the party membership is such a decent, honourable, community spirited and fair group of people.

There was a post here by someone who mentioned all the ideas and enthusiasm from Labour Councillors and members who feel they’re not being listened to and I thought it such a bloody shame that the Party has fallen so low in the public’s esteem despite grassroots and local enthusiasm.

They don’t deserve this.

The rest of us didn’t join this Party for the good of our health or for the joy of handing out leaflets written by mendacious marketers, we joined not out of self interest but for the improvement of the world around us. And we get the most unpopular leader ever and our ability to communicate the rest of the Party’s successes are critically compromised.

We don’t deserve this.

If the next leader is currently in the Cabinet and doesn’t have the courage to step in and stop this now, their strategy is predicated on a defeat the rest of the Party will have to endure. That being the case, they already don’t deserve to be the next leader.


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Brown shouldn't go down alone | 28 comments (28 topical)

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#1)

by Floating voter on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 12:22:04 PM GMT

Many in the media have commented that Gordon has populated his cabinet with those who represent no threat to him. Various labels of "yes-men", "lightweights", "non-entities", etc have been used.

There appears to be some degree of truth in the accusation, but it could be cold political calculation instead with one stepping up to a poison chalice of a job.

The problem is that both scenarios are bad. If they are indeed spineless then the government is doomed and deservedly so. If, on the other hand, they BELIEVE that Labour is going to lose badly, then they don't want to be remembered as the labour leader who lead to party to defeat. They obviously feel it can't be turned round in time.

It seems to me that both theories have elements of truth. They are spineless in the sense that they should try and turn things around even if they do fail. Far, far better to go down fighting than to supinely watch the hangman approach....

 


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#2)

by jkitleft on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 01:16:40 PM GMT

I agree with Jackie Ashley. Ministers and MP's don't seem angry. They seem lazy and apathetic. They can't be bothered to tell Gordon to either punch at his weight, or go.


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#3)

by fluffymike on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 03:55:32 PM GMT

Maybe not even cabinet ministers are confident enough that there seats are safe... and leading a prty through an election and losing your own seat could be a tad awkward!


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#4)

by sickandtired on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 05:02:32 PM GMT

As a Labour party supporter for nearly 40 years it saddens me to have to say: no he should'nt have to go down alone he should take the WHOLE of this wretched excuse for a government with him.I sometimes think I am listening to thatchers ministers when I listen to this lot.I don't want a tory government but sadly thats where we are heading (for perhaps for a longer period than 18 years) for the core vote will not forget the way they have been attacked over the last couple of years.Having never failed to cast my vote in a general election, as none of the above are worth or indeed deserve supporting I shall not be voting in the next one along with several thousands of  core voters I suspect


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#5)

by rosie on Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 08:30:25 PM GMT

Miliband, Purnell etc haven't the guts to challenge him and therefore, in my view, haven't the guts to be a leader or Prime Minister.


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#6)

by AngryVoter on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:07:07 AM GMT

Obviously I am a Tory so my views will be "kinked" but I will actually defend some of the cabinet.

I, basically, agree in part. I think the alarm bells for me started going off about the cabinet proper when I found out that Jacqui Smith and Hazel Blears were in narrow marginal seats and would likely end their careers at the next GE.

I hate Hazel, I really do. Her attitude has too much of a city-girl attitude to it and it shows she's from the affluent [or is that effluent?] area of Derby South. I won't miss her when her career ends...

Jacqui however... I think she's been doing very well out of what is possibly the toughest cabinet job of the lot, that of Home Secretary, and you know what? I will be sad to see her go, she's made a few gaffs sure, but she's managed to find her feet as the Home Sec in a fairly short time in a fairly adverse set of incidents which, while attributed to both Labour and the Tories over the last 15 or so years, she is going to be blamed for, as well as trying to be the first to fix the problem. Heck, lets not forget to mention she's in the history books now as the first female home secretary.

The rest of the Cabinet though?

Alan Johnson, whom I will admit I admire quite a bit, I do like watching him when he's on things like The Politics Show and The Andrew Marr show etc, would be a better choice as a leader and likely to at least keep the core vote better than say...

Miliband, who barely looks older than me at 19 [though he's actually 41], he looks too youthful and lacks the zeal necessary to be the leader of the Labour party. There's no fire in his belly and his arguments seem weakened.

Ed Balls [God, do we really have to go there?]

James Purnell - Who downright scares and unerves me every time I see him on TV due to the odd stare he seems to regard every journalist in his vicinity, that and he doesn't seem to do anything but knick stuff from the Tory manifestos.

Jack Straw - Very Plain. He's got a new cabinet job and doesn't seem to have done much with it. This was sort of expected as the Judiciary largely looks after itself, but still...

Alistair Darling - Better when he was the Minister of Transport. I liked Darling when he was the MoT but not as the Chancellor as he doesn't have the necessary economic competence to handle the monumental state position.

That's the "Big names" anyway...


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#7)

by CitizenAndreas on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:30:40 AM GMT

Ed Balls [God, do we really have to go there?]

Yes, we do. Because all indications are that he is actually very competent.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#8)

by NB on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 07:57:43 AM GMT

What indications are we talking about?


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#9)

by fluffymike on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 10:31:34 AM GMT

and competent at what exactly???


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#15)

by CitizenAndreas on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 09:55:12 AM GMT

Ed Balls, while lacking in charm is both intelligent and highly capable. He is also a good children's minister. His choice to take a welfare based approach to tackle youth problems is in my view the right route to take.

I know the subject of SAT's will come up, but I really think that any criticism should make clear how things should have been done differently. It seems more bad luck than anything that can be directly attributed to bad decision making.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#13)

by DDave3 on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 04:32:13 PM GMT

I think you've got your female Labour MPs mixed up, AngryVoter. Hazel Blears isn't in a marginal seat, her Salford seat has an 8,000 majority. And Derby South is the seat of Margaret Beckett, the former Foreign Secretary.

I'm the Youth and Student Officer for a CLP that borders Jacqui Smith's Redditch constituency and have had infrequent dealings with Redditch CLP members and with Jacqui Smith last year, before she became Home Sec, where she kindly agreed to campaign in the ward I contested. She is clearly a bright woman but what is also evident is that she is was extremley worried about losing her seat. Redditch is a marginal seat, with Jacqui's majority at only around 3,000 in 2005. There were two by-elections last week for District and County Council - both went to the Tories after being held by Labour's Betty Passingham for thirty years. It could be a much less seismic Portillo moment..


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#14)

by AngryVoter on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 08:36:22 PM GMT

Ats the one, you're right. My apologies.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#10)

by e10rifles on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 11:55:12 AM GMT

We could start by ditching all the wallies in the Commons who were so convinced he'd be brilliant at the job that they nominated him in the 'contest'.
 
If they had a few more balls then we members might have had a choice.


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#11)

by NB on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 12:25:57 PM GMT

If Gordon is still leader at the GE then "(s)he nominated Brown" will be an effective slogan in the Tory/LibDem leaflets. After all photos of Gordon were very effective at Crewe and Nantwich, esp. when the "herediatay member" denied having met him.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#12)

by fluffymike on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 02:44:25 PM GMT

That's actually a very important point - will a Brown-led campaign do the party less or more damage than a party led by someone else at the next general election???


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#16)

by Bobsterama on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 12:53:09 PM GMT

"We don’t deserve this."

No, you don't deserve this. After your warmongering in Iraq you deserve much, much worse.


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#17)

by TonyH on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 02:40:58 PM GMT

Had you read the post you'd see it was a reference to the "rest of us" in the Party.

A mass murderer had his blasted neck broken at the end of a rope – while I’m sorry about the mess created by our useless ally in the White House who didn’t even listen to his own Generals, I’m not sorry about Saddam’s death or the end of his terrible reign.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#18)

by sickandtired on Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 08:56:02 PM GMT

The "rest of you in the party" better get ready for the backlash on the doorsteps when you try to peddle your half truths and downright lies at the next GE .The Party is washed up and is bringing out policies trying to appease middle England and ignoring ,no turning against its traditional supporters.Point two have you forgotten Tone the Poodle and his part in all of this mess.Well you will be reminded on polling day when the "party" is brushed aside like an old dishcloth.It gives me no pleasure saying this as a traditional supporter of the Labour Party (I doorstepped for Labour when thatcher was at her height)  but I shall never again vote for new labour .I am not from the loony left i am a moderate .


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#19)

by TonyH on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 08:38:27 AM GMT

Yes - you sound quite 'moderate'.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#20)

by sickandtired on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:15:58 PM GMT

I am quite moderate I just get angry at the way the labour party has drifted to the right of the tories.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#26)

by woodbine on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:34:53 AM GMT

So often the price of loyalty is a growing sense of betrayal when the Party become little more than a 'spin-club' for the ambitions of the disengaged.

Self deception always lead to deception of others, and the danger lies in the fact that they fail to listen, and become 'smug' whilst becoming increasingly distant from the problems many people face. They focus on their own ambitions and expenses, whilst requesting others to listen to them - self wisdom is the final deception. Many within the Labour Government (Purnell, 'the bothers' Johnson, etc) are clones of the previous Thatcher govt - ambitious self-seeking and disengaged. Shame on them all!


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#28)

by jkitleft on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 12:14:36 AM GMT

The last year has been disappointing. 42 days and 10p tax the two prime suspects.

But lets look at some genuine achievements:

Re-regulation of buses. The Every Child a Reader scheme to be rolled out in September. Pathways to Work was rolled out fully in April. The £100m youth intervention programme. The Embryology bill. An Equality bill, which is a great step towards equal pay, and fighting age discrimination. A massive increase in renewable energy. Equal rights for agency workers. Visas for slave domestics to escape abusive employers. GP opening hours extended to evenings and weekends. A GI bill. And a Cimate Change bill, which should be given teeth, but it is still good. Oh, and £1billion for poor kids at the last budget.

Naturally, much more needs to be done. But this trumps the rather measly 1997 pledge card. But the perception is that Brown is still triangulating (which he is). And that he's a ditherer. He does need guts. But it is in the programmes that Labour undersells, where the notion that they are more right-wing than the Tories, will be rid. The minimum wage might become an arbitrary figure under the Tories. Perhaps the mightiest example, is that the Tories will slash SureStart.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#21)

by sickandtired on Thu Jul 24, 2008 at 05:18:03 PM GMT

And You sound quite smug.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#22)

by TonyH on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 12:55:50 AM GMT

Yes, I'm afraid I often do. ;-)


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#25)

by woodbine on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:29:17 AM GMT

It is smuggness and disengaged softminded 'County Hall' speak that has lead to the continuing decline of the Labour pary.


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#23)

by madasafish on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 09:59:33 AM GMT

Gordon can pander as he like sto middle England. He's lost them to Labour - for the next 20  years in my view. Lies, stealth taxees, taxes masquerading as green taxes but nothing of the sort, incompetence and sleaze.  And helping to screw up Government finances big style.

I suspect his legacy will be the worst post war PM and Chancellor  - a double to be ashamed of.

As far as Labour tactics for the future, I'm unsure. I suspect a core vote strategy will not work because with brilliant political judgement he's managed to turn of most of Labour's natural political base (10p taxes, car taxes etc)  and has no choice but to screw down wage rises for mGovernment employees.

From a practical politics viewpoint, short of firing him and  getting rid of the more incompetent Cabinet members, the best course of action would be a full and frank apology for past errors and a promise to try to improve things ... but only when the country can afford it. (Post 2010 in my opinion as 2009 looks like a recession).

I have every confidence that that will not happen. the man is arrogant and totally unsuited to the job.. as polls before he was annointed showed time after time.

The Constitution does not allow any easy change  so you are stuck. Only a fool would want the job. Leading the Party to a likely wipeout at the next General Election. (Wipeout = loss of more than 200 seats).


Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#24)

by sickandtired on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 01:24:39 PM GMT

After the Glasgow by-election is anything to go by Wipeout =0 seats


[ Parent ]

Re: Brown shouldn't go down alone (#27)

by jkitleft on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:50:05 PM GMT

Well, people haven't warmed to the opposition like they did for Blair yet. It is still possible for us to win. We certainly won't be behind by 22 points. The Tories are the favourites, no doubt.


[ Parent ]

Brown shouldn't go down alone | 28 comments (28 topical)