BBC and Tories agree- we're not hard enough on asylum seekers


But rather that trying to ratchet down xenophobia, he instead argues that it should simply be redirected towards illegal immigration and (specifically) asylum seekers.  Yes.  Apparently the press is giving asylum seekers an EASY RIDE.

So, instead of calling for the blood of all immigrants, now the Tories are only calling for the blood of non-white immigrants.  It's progress of a kind I suppose.



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Re: BBC and Tories agree (#1)

Personally I see it as the Tories and the Press finally grasping the nettle that has been off limits for a full 40 years since the maverick Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech, which bizarrely had some good points in it arguing for more migration control.

 Right up until he started talking about the Black man having the whip hand over the White man.

Couple this with migrationwatch's latest figures that the Poles actually make up only fairly small part of the  migration question as compared to those from commonwealth and non-commonwealth countries.

The Poles have also tried to settle fairly evenly across the country, something no migration bloc has properly done in quite a long time [Indo-Pakistani and the Afro-Carribean communities solidified their positions in the Midlands predominantly].

The Poles have effectively been the catalyst on breaking open the whole immigration question because they're white.

It's finally "detoxifying" the whole question at long last, and the liberals who had constantly sniped at people, deriding them as racist the second they questioned uncontrolled immigration on the scale Labour has run it at, are now rightly painted as the intolerant lunatics they are.

However, as the  Danny Kawczynski pointed out, it's at a cost because they were white and christian, so thus easy to offend without recourse thanks to the legion of petty left/liberals that base every decent argument down to it's most basic blocs to push buttons by making resoned positions seem offensive, that of class, "destroying the NHS", and race.

It has, however, highlighted the fact they're here, thus makes them open to attacks by the intolerant and as fanatical right, who want to "get da immigunts".

Personally I think it'd good he went onto Newsnight and I watched the debate. He made a reasonable and steady case about the problems that have arisen, especially highlighting the C&N literature which was trying to deride the 5,000 strong polish community that had been there since the War and was very well integrated, but still just distinct enough for folks to know they were there.

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#2)

It has always struck me that Labour is frightened of the immigration issue, so it "buries" it by shutting down any debate.

When I say "frightened" what I mean is that they find it very hard to reconcile the left's "internationalist" stance with shutting foreigners out - which is what immigration controls do. Combine that with the fact that for the last 40 years immigration has been seen as a race issue and you can see why Labour has a problem.


Re: BBC and Tories agree (#7)

I think the other problem is Labour does rely on the migrant vote in some places, now. I don't mean that offensively or whatnot, but it's just my opinion.

Apparently, from the figures eventually released over the London election, the "Ken Freindly" areas all had higher populations of Muslims/Ethnic votes, than the majority of London which votes for Boris, the White, Afro Carribean and Indian suburbs communities who had lived there for several generations or so.

The other problem is it's not really an issue the left has ever been able to deal with, especially as since it's first significant and "proper" Labour government, the Atlee government of 46-51, called for Indians and Afro-Carribeans to come here to help rebuild the country, and it's a mindset that didn't go away when it probably needed to.

Enoch Powell's speech has also made it a horrible nettle that sucessive governments daren't touch, and the last two conservative Tory campaigns, including Micheal Howard's "Are you thinking what we're thinking?" campaign failed because it questioned Labour's migrationary policy, or rather, lack thereof.

Now, sitting here on the centre-right, I've always felt that both sides tend to "miss a trick" when the rest of us see it a mile away. The Tories post war didn't think about scaling back the War-like Rhetoric and looking into a more socialistically minded state from the way the whole country had bonded together during the war and subsequently lost.

It happened again with Major in 1997, where the country needed to move on to something that the government didn't see because it had worked frantically behind the scenes since Black Wednesday and had fixed the problem of the economy, only to realise they had said nothing to the elecorate, or seemed to be doing nothing during the time. It's why Major is now being exonerated by the Tories these days, because folks realise that a lot of it was "behind the scenes" coupled with personal scandals that did it in for Major during the 1997 campaign.

Labour, perhaps, is making the same mistake now on immigration, despite the promise of tough new border controls they're not really controlled at all, and often seem and feel ad-hoc so they don't offend the Guardian and Independant readership and even seem to be "Crisis? What Crisis?" in attitude.

The fact the Poles settled and distributed themselves evenly across the country has also fueled the immigration debate because, for the first time in several generations, there are migrants in some communities that last had people from India arrive in the 1950s.

The Tories however, seem to have, once again, found the "Sweet spot" between grasping the issue properly, while going at it with kid gloves. They're talking about immigration in general, not as a racial issue as often distorted by certain chunks of the press, perhaps thanks to the poles, but as a socio-economics issue.

Society needs to be able to "drip feed" migrants into it's local population so they don't suffer "culture shock" from the sudden large body that often isolates itself into a "ghetto" of some form [I said as much on another post here that seems to have had the whole blog entry vanish]

It's also necessary so the public services can cope with the numbers too. by arguing it more on these issues you can bring in better controls and even control immigration  without coming across as anti-migrant, or "BNP-like" or whatnot.

When spoken like that, and carefully thought out, it's an argument that people go "That's what I was thinking too." and it thus "resonates" with the voters because it's more of concern for the NHS and for the culture-shock, rather than the issue of race. 

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#3)

This is utter tripe.  The Conservatives went into the 2005 General Election campaigning specifically on immigration and asylum as part of their farcical 'are you think what we're thinking' campaign.  In the wake of the 7/11 bombings one tabloid, I forget which, ran the headline 'THEY WERE ALL SPUNGING ASYLUM SEEKERS.'  The idea that immigration has been 'off-limits' for the last decade is simply fantasy that wouldn't stand up to 2 seconds of critical media analysis.

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#4)

If this is utter tripe then please explain why, since 1997, out population has increased by 4 million or so. That is a 6% increase in the population in a decade and 2/3 of those are from OUTSIDE the EU so they can be refused entry on whatever grounds the govt decides as suitable criteria.

The figures speak for themselves - the door is open. 

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#5)

I don't mean to be fastidious, but could you quote the source where you got those figures from? I tend to find that figures regarding Asylum and Immigration are the most liable to being 'spun' and 'counter-spun' etc.

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#6)

"The mid-1996 resident population of England and Wales was
estimated to be 52.0 million. This was an increase of 190 thousand
(0.4 per cent) since mid-1995. Of the total increase between 1995
and 1996, 71 thousand was due to natural change (the excess of births over deaths) and 119 thousand to migration and other changes."

Office of National Statistics, Winter of 1997 Report.

Now, the Spring 2008 report... well, it no longer says the figures in any discernable way... infact, after a quick "search" through all 72 pages of the document the word "immigration" comes up... once from the report that stated immigration gave "no discernable benefit to the UK economy and placed strain on Local services." and was promptly ignored by the government.

However... I found a couple of graphs on page.. 7 of the demographic indicators...

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_population/Population_Trends_131_web.pdf

As you can see, the "total change" is a lot higher than the "Natural Change"  by around 150,000 or so. Now obviously there's a blip under 2004-2005 as the half million or so poles turned up over that period, before the population lowered again as many returned back after earning some money here and there were wage raises in Poland.

Over all, the group that tends to wade through the Off Nat Stats reports is MigrationWatch who then duly post their findings on their website and to the media. 

 

Hope that helps a little. 

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#8)

Believe a word from Migrationwatch and lose all credibility. Lunatics.

Re: BBC and Tories agree (#9)

Though I'm sure you'd love to let this descend into a general squabble about immigration stats (of which Migrationwatch is hardly a credible source) the thing I argued was 'utter tripe' was not any particular set o stats, but about the claim that the media has somehow been tip-toeing around the subject of immigration due to 'political correctness.'  I don't see how anyone who has picked up a newspaper in the last decade could possibly make that argument with a straight face.

Re: we're not hard enough on asylum seekers? (#10)

Well, most Polish people are going back to Poland.

Asylum seekers are unfairly victimised. At the last election, the Tories said they would withdraw from 1951 UN convention, which David Davis admitted would see Aung Sun Suu Kyi turned away from our borders.

I don't think reports from papers like the Express or Mail on migration are really credible, as asylum seekers are described as being "showered with benefits". They supposedly clog up our NHS, this despite figures saying that waiting lists have crashed from 18 months to 4 weeks, backed up not by government spin, but by the Tory BMA, and polling data from independent health monitors (owing to media coverage, the same data shows that while the majority of patients are satisfied with their care, they think the NHS is in a terrible state).

Also, even if there were "3 million migrants" (which the papers provide no credible evidence for), do they imagine that all of them are waiting for an NHS operation?