Alex

To be honest my first reaction was that this kind of poll is a mistake and a potential gift to our political opponents http://www.labourhome.org/comments/2008/5/14/103031/794/3#3.

That the media can be mischievous and they may misrepresent should not come as any great shock to anybody. I'm all for transparency in a democratic sense - of policy-making and so on (which we do not have) and I am very critical, if necessary openly, of government policy on particular issues, but I think that polls on personalities and performance on an open site on such as this are fraught with danger. For these reasons I have never participated in the survey (as I know others have not).

I particularly object to the notion of rating ministers (upon what basis?).

I really do wish that we could move the debate onto policy and away from personality issues - and let policy be openly debated in an open forum like this (as it is). Let others poll on personality and performance matters if they must but we ought not to present a gift to our political opponents in this manner.

It was probably inevitable that such a poll would be manipulated by the media, however, I don't see that particular article causing the party any great or lasting damage.

I do support the poll, but, as Free Radical has already mentioned, perhaps we should make it less about the individual personalities in government and more on general performance and policy direction.

We shouldn't be asked how we rate individual cabinet performance when we have little insight or knowledge of how they have performed over the month of June. For the sake of party loyalty, perhaps we shouldn't be asked divisive questions about when we think Brown should go, but we should be asked what policies he should introduce.

Perhaps an alternative question to ask would be "How do you believe the Labour government has performed over the last month?", removing the personality dimension and moves the poll towards the barometer of membership opinion which it should be.

 At the end of the day, Alex, it's about what you want the poll, and consequently this site, to be about. By altering the questions slightly and perhaps restricting voting to Labour supporters only (I don't know if this can be technically achieved...), you can create a significant monthly opinion poll of Labour members which would further enhance this sites status as a voice of the party's grassroots. We have a varied membership on here, not just Tories and Lib Dems, but New Labourites, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Centre-Leftists, Fabians, everyone! I, and I am sure others do as well, would like the site to continue to grow in numbers and in prominence, so if the polls bring attention to our views, then so be it.

 Not only is it worthwhile that we have a stimulating debate on this site, but that the results of our debate will be read by MPs, journalists and even Cabinet Ministers make our debates fruitful.

 As for your status as a PPC, isn't it part of your role to canvass the electorate and engage with them, understanding their concerns and formulating their concerns into local policy proposals? Where most PPCs will stick to their local constituencies, you've opened up the debate to the country and the Labour membership. The site, and it's polls, are a forum for free democratic debate, something which is ultimately a good thing, even if the outcomes of the debate are controversial.

 

 

I think this kind of poll is a gift to the press - especially as it can be manipulated so easily. We have several trolls on here from other parties who undoubtedly try to skew polls (and also debates on here). I know Conservative Home does these types of polls - but they tend to be used also by press and factions for their own benefit and as far as I can see haven't done anything positive for their party at all.

Add to that how Tom Harris' interesting musings on how the western world has changed since the 50's being mis-quoted and used in the press and the message to all Labour people has to be to be very careful what you say and how you phrase it. Particularly if you are a candidate/councillor/MP. If in doubt say nothing

I'd stick to your guns, Alex.  There's no point pretending this sort of technology doesn't exist or not using it.

I agree with others that the minister ranking bit is over-personalised.  I suspect we all look at it trying to see whether it reveals anything political and not really being sure (as the politics of Cabinet minister is something of an unknown quantity because of collective responsibility).  Of course a policy tracker is tricky too because how much detail do you give?  The bits about 'shore up the core vote', etc. are pretty imprecise, and something on specific policies would probably harder to use well.

So it's a tricky one - I don't think 'ministerial performance' is that useful, and something on policy would be more so - but I don't know how you'd do that.

Run the same poll about Cameron and his merry men - after all as many Tories could have contributed to the June poll as Labourites will to a new Tory poll?

I have said before that the problem with the poll is that it is utterly meaningless, because the way in which the sample is drawn means that it isn't representative of the wider body of activists. If the poll was telling us some meaningful information, I could see an argument for it even if it was being taken out of context, but given that the results are basically a pile of garbage, I can see no argument for it whatsoever.

I think that rather than turning fire on Alex we concentrate our fire on the mainstream media.

As one fo the 60% who apparently want's Gordon to step down before the general election I feel that my views have been represented, since that's not my opinion at all.

Could I suggest that you put together some kind of open letter suggesting that our views have been misrepresented. I'd sign it woithout hesitation and I think a lot of other people would as well.

Alex

I hope you saw the ICM poll.  In the Poll, Gordon got 3.94 out of 10, and on Labour Home, he got 3.93.

So, we're not THAT out of step it seems.

Whether Luke is or is not a **** / **** / ******* / **** / ****** (delete as applicable) it must be said that this poll of yours/ours is not even remotely significant. And it is fuel for our opponents.

Dave Cameron himself can probably vote in it. The minister tracking though is going in the right direction. Up! And who knows? Perhaps the minister scores will improve month on month and year on year.

But the thing does tend to promote personalities over posts and functions.

Whoever is in any top job when we're down in the polls obviously gets a poor score.

Reshuffling people with better scores to these posts just screws them for the next poll and gives any escapees a boost. Far more popular is XYZ when not making any decisions. What a chuffing surprise that is.

Not a great contribution IMO to the debate.