Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise

Mike Ion Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 10:16:00 AM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

I think Andy Burnham is a likeable guy and an able Culture Secretary. He is the product of the comprehensive system (always a plus in my book) and is someone who comes across as a fully paid up member of the human race. So what on earth was he thinking when he made his remarks about 'heart-melting phone calls' between David Davis and Shami Chakabrati in his interview with Progress? Such remarks do not help inform the debate surrounding civil liberties, do not help Labour and will most certainly not help Andy Burnham long term career in politics.

The sooner Andy Burnham issues a full, written apology the better.





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Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise | 19 comments (19 topical)

Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#1)

by scampi on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 03:21:34 PM GMT

Of course he should but he suffers from the typical left-wing hypocracy - ie we're the good guys so can ignore the rules we set for everyone else!


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#10)

by doctordunc on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:28:57 PM GMT

Did you just describe Andy Burnham as 'left-wing'!!!???


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#2)

by NB on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 05:01:17 PM GMT

Burnham is hopelessly over-promoted. For some reason Gordon made him Chief Secretary to the Treasury despite having no background in economics and finance, so he was hapless over Northern Rock.

He should apologise and go on Cultural Sensitivity training. In his culture it may be acceptable for a Cabinet Minister to accuse a highly respected advocate of Civil Liberties of having an illicit affair, but in traditional British and Indian cultures it is absolutely not. In the corporate world anyone who made such crass comments would be severely repremanded.


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#14)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:59:13 AM GMT

He should apologise and go on Cultural Sensitivity training.

Sounds a bit Stalinist to me.

I don't think he should apologise at all. He obviously meant it in a jokey, sarcastic way and Chakribarti's over-reaction makes me think that she doth protests too much.


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#3)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 05:04:36 PM GMT

he's written an apology - see here


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#4)

by antibloodsports on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:03:44 PM GMT

He should not apologise.

Chakrabarti is a Tory stooge and the most over hyped self promoting  right winger.

It is 'Liberty' that should apologise for being a tool of the ultra libertarian right wing loons.

Three cheers for Andy Burnham.


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#5)

by swatantra on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 06:45:25 PM GMT

Shami is absolutely wrong on this and is creating a mountain out of a molehill. The remarks were not offensive and Burnham has no need to apologise. Sue if you want to but the case would be thrown out by any self respecting Judge as a complete waste of time.


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#6)

by Free Radical on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 07:04:35 PM GMT

Well Burnham has apologised, as Snowflake rightly points out (just above...)


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#7)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 07:20:27 PM GMT

He shouldn't have said it, it was ungentlemanly. But I believe that he wasn't having a go at Shami at all. He was attempting (very very badly) to have a pop at Davis, and to mock him for his somewhat "distant" marriage - see this interview with Doreen Davis - and to imply he is so lonely that he is open to be influenced by any fairly attractive woman regardless of whether she is interested in him.

But having made a complete mull of things, he should have apologised post-haste.

Shami's reaction (or over-reaction) highlighted something about her - which is that for a Libertarian, she doesn't quite sign up to the whole Voltaire businesss of "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it". It was more "You insulted me, I'm gonna sue ya". Of course from a politically correct point of view, she was right, you shouldn't insult people. But I thought David Davis was against "political correctness" and for freedom of speech including freedom to make mild insults and mock people? Getting very confusing here.

Also confusing is the idea that Liberty and the Conservatives are allies. What does this mean for things like the Human Rights Act, which the Conservatives want to ditch? I'm also not sure how Liberty's close alliance with Conservatives will affect their relationship with the Labour party.

In the public mind though, Liberty will be now twinned with Conservatives. The Guardianistas will like this, but not sure how core Conservatives (or core Labour) will react, as they don't share much with the Guardian crowd. 


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#8)

by swatantra on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 07:38:09 PM GMT

I hope that Liberty is not going to be associated with the Tories who wouldn't recognise a HR's issue if it hit them in the face. I'm a member of Liberty and Shami has done wonders with the organisation since she took over. She's a highly intelligent publicist and a great campaigner and wouldn't want to be too closely linked to any political party. Liberty should stand alone and take up issues, which nobody else will risk touching.


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#9)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:04:39 PM GMT

"Liberty should stand alone and take up issues, which nobody else will risk touching."

Too late for that - the whole threatening-to-sue business brought Shami's relationship with the Conservatives to the front of public consciousness (I'm sure the public didn't realize it before, and I'm sure the public hadn't picked up on what Burnham had said at all). And mark that the Conservatives will use her as a fig-leaf to hide behind. i.e. Shami likes us, so we're not going to do anything bad, so it's OK to elect us - and then they go ahead and repeal the Human Rights Acts etc etc

They've already done something like this with Greenpeace and Monbiot and co - invited them to the Tory conference, said look, we can't be all that bad with friends like these. Did they mean it about being green? Well as soon as Boris got elected he dumped the increase in congestion charge on 4x4s. Bet Monbiot and Tony whats-his-name of Greenpeace weren't pleased. But they were the ones who deliberately attacked the Labour govt for supposedly not doing enough on green issues, while praising the Tories to the skies and hence made Boris' election possible in the first place.


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#13)

by Free Radical on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 11:43:51 PM GMT

Well, the world is turned upside down - Tories in league with Liberty and a grossly authoritarian Labour government that has forgotten its libertarian roots and plays to a nasty tabloid agenda. But it's all about Labour's triangulation to the right - partly for very mistaken cynical calculation, but, more I think because after 10 years of control freakery New Labour is instinctively authoritarian and controlling just as they are instinctively pro-market and frankly very rightwing in many respects. No wonder the electorate is alienated from party politics and confused. And no wonder the Tories suddenly look like the nice party and Labour the nasty party (even though I have no illusions about the Tories).


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#11)

by NB on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:46:34 PM GMT

It's great that Burnham has apologised. He should still be sent on cultural sensitivity training.  I think the real problem is that there were a load of ghastly political hacks spreading rumours about SC and DD and Burnham blew the dog whistle. It is highly offensive to suggest that two married people are having an illicit sexual relationship - and blatantly sexist to boot. 

Burham's idea that this kind of thing is "part of the cut and thrust of political debate." is both laughable and contemptable. It will of course be another nail in Labour's coffin and pretty well guarantees that he will never get a significant promotion. 


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#15)

by swatantra on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 09:05:33 AM GMT

Anyone who believes that Shami C and David D were ever likely to have an 'illicit relationship' needs their heads examined.


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#12)

by antibloodsports on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 09:43:38 PM GMT

she has already got cosy with the sadistic bloodsports junkies at the Countryside Alliance so fraternising with right wing reactionary loons is nothing new for shami shitbag


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#16)

by Al on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 11:59:57 PM GMT

I feel like the world is going mad at times like this.
There is no way anyone could read his comments and think he was actually insinuating they were having an affair. Even Guide Fawkes at Order Order pointed out he was blatently teasing them.

The point of the joke is that they were having these 'heart melting' calls about civil liberties, NOT romance, and that it was a sham on Davis' part given that he is in favour of the death penalty.

Shami totally overreacted and is in real danger of jeopardising Liberty's position.

Even after this, she completely ignored the point that Andy made, in that Davis' is pro-death penalty yet seemingly completely aligned with Liberty.

At the moment there seems to be no difference between Liberty's stance and the Tories, yet surely there is a world of difference when it comes to the death penalty and the human rights act.

I can see how Burnham should probably not have said anything, given how easy it is for this stuff to be taken the wrong way, but I personally just see it as an attempt (badly or otherwise) to take the piss out of David Davis.

However, I have to admit nearly all of the 'political class' view it as a personal smear against them, which I find quite unbelievable.


Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#17)

by Free Radical on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:58:09 AM GMT

Al. Burnham has apologised, so presumably he felt he had done something wrong even if you don't.

Personally I thought Burnham's comments were a miserable attempt to muddy the water and deflect attention away from the issue of 42 days - perhaps implying some kind of possible tryst, in order politically to damage both Davis and Liberty. Furthermore he didn't say it in private, but in an interview.

But he has had the decency to apologise so I guess that is the end of the story...


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Re: Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise (#19)

by NB on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:14:58 PM GMT

I think this was because, as I gather from the papers, there was a parallel whispering campaign where Govt sources were insinuating more explicitly what the article was "suggesting".

Though of course a serious and/or competent cabinet minster would not aim to "take the piss out of" a leading political opponent.


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Re: Andy Burnham (#18)

by Limony on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:14:06 PM GMT

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

If there's an Andy Burnham defence fund I'll be the first to donate.

 

 


Why I believe Andy Burnham should apologise | 19 comments (19 topical)