Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide

We should not stand a candidate against David Davis as doing so will not be to the benefit of the party nor the electorate.


As mentioned in other posts, there are obvious drawbacks – it is against our principles as a national party that seeks representation in all corners of the country and it could be spun off as cowardice or disregard for the electorate.

 
 But what will happened if we stand?

 
First off, we will lose. No question about it. The electorate will not treat this as a referendum on the 42-day detention legislation, this will be, as in all elections where a parliamentary representative is elected, about wider issues, on which, in this Tory-Liberal seat, we have not only no history of winning, we have no history of coming close.

 

How will our defeat be portrayed? This Tory seat is being elevated by the press as the battleground for 42-days, and by standing in it, we only further add to its credibility as a real contest, and further contribute to the depth of our defeat. The fact this is just a semi-rural seat in Yorkshire will be ignored, everyone will forget Labour polled only 13% of the vote 3 years ago – it will be made out that we were crushed by the electorate on the basis of our unpopular authoritarian agenda.

 
What will a defeat mean? We lose even more credibility as a governing party. We look (more) unpopular, we look (even more) like losers and we further slip away from the possibility of our ‘historic’ fourth term. Moreover, we hand credibility to our opponents and we hand credibility to the egocentric, attention-seeking antics of David Davis. Where he once could have been dismissed as wasting everyone’s time, we are now flirting with the possibility of making him a martyr for the libertarian cause. In party political terms, standing in the by-election will only keep this issue at the fore, when it would otherwise disappear into obscurity. The longer this issue remains the focus of the media, the more we stand out to lose from it – we become increasingly branded as the ‘authoritarian party’ (and conversely, the Tories benefit from being branded as the ‘libertarian party’) and we allow a contentious issue to dominate the political agenda, preventing us from moving on - ideally to something more progressive.

 
Whether we stand or do not stand, we will lose on both counts, but more heavily if we chose the former. The merits of standing do not really surpass the clichés of representation, a fact which will be quickly lost in the media coverage of the by-election. Can you honestly see the men and women of H & H saying ‘I usually vote Tory or Liberal, but good on Labour for standing like they stood in 2005, I may even lend them my vote’? We gain no credibility from standing, we gain no kudos for doing what we do anyway, we only strengthen our opponents and further compound our decline.

 
If we do not stand, we may well go back on our principles of seeking universal representation, but is this not an exceptional circumstance? We will obviously return in 2010 in as unassailable position as we left it in 2008 – we lose nothing. And what to accusations of cowardice and treating the electorate with contempt? Yes, there is a possibility that we could be labelled as cowards, but by whom? David Davis? I could not care less what he thinks, and I do not really think much of the electorate do either. As for treating them with contempt, that is a risk, but I would endorse the view that we stand to lose much more from standing and lending credibility to our opponents than we do from being viewed as treating the electorate with contempt. By not standing, but moving-on, by pushing forward with the legislative agenda, not only do we make Davis look like a fool, but the more likely it is that news will move on, and people will forget, lest care, that we never stood.

Standing is political suicide – we lend credibility to our opponents, we turn a capital-punishment advocate into a libertarian hero, we turn a semi-rural Tory seat into the nation’s focus group on 42-days and we further contribute to our degeneration into a defeated party.

 



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Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#1)

I agree completely, David Davis is playing an attention seeking game here. There can be no doubt that in a Tory safe seat with the government's popularity as it is that Labour will lose badly.

The result will be that the Tories will use that victory as a platform for more government bashing. David Davis is not risking anything by this and he knows it, he just wants to drag Labour into his stupid game. We simply should not imdulge the man's ego.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#2)

Absolutely - hallelujah some sense on here at last.  Of course, Davis has also called the election becuase Labour is in no financial position to throw serious weight behind a stunt by-election.  And he also knows it has the potential to split Labour down the middle.  I could never support an anti-gay, pro-death penalty reactionary like Davis even when he's faking concern for civil liberties.  But I'm sure I would be far from alone in finding it difficult to support a Labour candidate fighting an election on 42 days, ID cards and CCTV.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#3)

Totally agree. I would go further- the Davis stunt is undemocratic. The 42 day issue has been decided by the House of Commons. To suggest that the decision of the Commons could, or should be reversed by reason of a byelection in one consituency is undemocratic and wrong. We should decline to participate as a matter of principle, not just for tactical reasons.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#4)

If we do allow our PPC to stand in this seat and fight the issue over 42 days will we lose? Well it would be remarkable political history if we didn't. But in seriousness who could portray Labour losing a seat where we barely keep our deposit anyway as bad news for the government.

 

Could it make Davis a hero amongst Tory ranks, yes, will it raise his profile, yes, will a few more people mention his name around the dinner table in the contexts of future Tory leadership elections. Well I think the only loser from this scenario where Labour contests the seat is David Cameron.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#5)

Granted, but isn't there a difference between perception and reality? The electorate isn't neccesarily always aware of the seats political history or its 'win-abiltity' for the Labour Party. A loss is a loss in the eyes of many of the voting public, especially if they have been conned into believing that people are voting only on the 42-days issue.

By fighting H&H, we only prolong the news-life of the 42-day issue, when strategically, we need this story to be move on from as quickly as possible.

 Moreover, by fighting, Davis will have drawn us in, and if he succedes in making this by-election a one-issue fight, Labour will be campaigning on authoritarian vs. libertarian grounds, and this will be done so in the full view of the media in perhaps the last by-election before the GE. There is nothing to be gained from fighting on those grounds, and the more we are labled as authoritarian, and the more mileage Tory candidates can make out of being labelled libertarian, the worse we come out of it.

 This is a fight that will not be on our terms, in grounds where we are divided (Look what Bob M-A has just done - how can the Labour Party fight now?) and where we will only add credibility to Davis by standing.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#22)

I can see the nasty headlines now "Labour fail to snatch safe Tory seat". Giving Davis a platform will only damage Cameron, it won't just make the Tories look divided it will divide them. A drawn out argument over 42 days is exactly what we want, its one of the few issues where the public supports us and not the Tories.

 

As for the result itself it maybe surprising. Last time the seat was a Lib Dem target seat. If anyone has ever seen their operation the impressive is an understatement. They maximise turnout of people who will vote for them and squeeze our vote. With the not even contesting turnout may well drop, without the Tories ploughing the resources in they need to defend their turnout will drop anyway and a lot of our core voters will come back to us. 

I grew up in this area, my primary school and secondary school where both in the constituency. Until a few months ago I lived a few hundred metres from the constituency boundary, the people there are fairly "no-nonsense" you can already tell from the letters in the Hull Daily Mail and calls made to Radio Humberside that people who have voted Tory all their lives plan to vote for whoever stands against him. It is an unrealistic ask for us to win it but I am very certain we will have a swing to us.

Re: Standing Against Davis... (#24)

There stems from this wider issues of party policy towards by-elections. Does this mean Labour could "bottle" ordinary by-elections where they came third las time, on the pretence that they are saving money when it is more about saving face?

The 42 day issue is, we are told, popular with the public at large. If Labour really think this is the case, I cannot fathom why they are running away from the  - albeit flawed - opportunity to debate the policy.

Re: Standing Against Davis... (#27)

And I cannot fathom why you keep banging on about this pointless, opportunist stunt.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#6)

The other option would be to put up a candidate who is sceptical or anti-42 days. It would at least show that we're prepared to countenance different views to the leadership and shoot the Davis fox.

It would also would  make it harder for Ian Gibson and BMA to back a Tory when there's an official candidate who shares their concerns. (Not that we should build a strategy around their involvement!)

The obvious downside to putting up an anti-42 candidate is that it would highlight the divisions between the leadership, PLP and the grassroots.

Putting up a pro-42er is, as you've all pointed out , a complete no-goer. The leadership knows it would completely demoralise members.

I passionately believe that we should fight every seat but fully understand everyone's concerns on this one. It's a tough call.

I just hope that we don't fight 42 days by proxy. Kelvin MacKenzie will get hammered and the defeat - whether we like it or not - WILL be laid at our door.

So we should continue to paint this as a vainglorious act - the tax payer picking up £80,000 for Davis to position himself as a civil libiterian champion.

There was a time and place for him to make his objection count - last Wednesday in the House of Commons. A vote in the mother of all parliaments carries far much more validity than a by-election in East Yorkshire against no serious opposition.

The real problem I have is that the people of H&H will not  have the option of voting for a liberal (with a small l) party.

Instead, it looks like it'll be a toss up between two white middle-aged right-wing men, who both back the death penalty, are desperate for publicity but refuse to agree on 42 days.

Whether we stand or not, this by-election is going to get an exceptional amount of coverage. So let's be clear - our decision not to stand will not diminish it's newsworthiness one iota. 

The absence of a Labour pro-42 candidate will be just as damaging as letting one stand.

When combined with the fact that the Lib Dems have complicitly backed a pro-death penalty advocate, the favourite has no serious opposition and election victory carries no real moral mandate, it's hard to see any winner from this by-election.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#7)

Standing against Davis may be "political suicide" but not standing against him is also political suicide.  I'm afraid Gordon is snookered either way. It's the choice between being a coward and a loser.  There is no chance the people will forget that Gordon wouldn't allow any electors to decide on the only policy for which (apparently) Labour has more popular support than the opposition.

BTW H&H is not a safe Tory seat in the normal sense - DD only got 47.5% of the vote at the last GE.  Of course you could argue that any seat with a Tory majority is "safe" under current circumstances, and that Labour should simply focus on defending sitting Labour MPs.  Withdrawing candidates from all Tory seats would save scarce resources - is that what you have in mind?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#9)

It's the choice between being a coward and a loser.

Because of course DD's is being so brave, standing in his seat when his main rivals have decided not to contest it. Maybe more MP's should follow suit, resigning their seats and standing again whenever they don't like the result of a legitimate government vote.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#13)

You can hardly criticise David Davis on the basis that Labour may not put up a candidate against him - he obviously wants Labour to contest it.

42 days imprisonment without charge is not just any other issue. And thank God somebody has had the guts to draw a line in the sand - even if it is a right-wing Tory. On this issue, he is right and we are wrong.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#16)

I was referring to the Liberals, who were the main opposition in that constituency at the last general election. He had secured their agreement not to stand before he began this stunt and as a result he knew he wasn't taking any risk. 

And, yes, 42 days is like any other issue and I challenge you to define a principle that says that it is not. He may have the right stance, but the 42 day law has been passed by parliament and should be respected.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#17)

Well, for a start, 42 days is an abrogation of Magna Carta, and I read recently that Tory MP Bill Cash is planning to challenge it on that basis.

You cannot seriously suggest that 42 days is just on a par with everything else? Do you really believe that? I can't think many people would agree with you, no matter which side of the fence they sat...

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#19)

Apart from a few exceptions, very little of the Magna Carta remains in British law, much of it was outdated anyway. The right to a trial before punishment being one clause that still remains.

No person is punished without trial, that remains, the argument is that the pre trial detention period is long enough that it constitutes punishment. The question has to be asked why exactly 42 days detention is punishment while 28 days is not. I don't see what principle you can draw upon to establish that.

This law is no different from any other.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#30)

Free societies depend upon justice and civil liberties, both of which are infringed by raising the period of imprisonment without charge from three days to seven days, to 14 days, to 28 days, to 42 days (and I daresay to 90 days if our leaders could get away with it). Each step decreases the quality of justice and liberty. That's why this law is not like some change in building regulations or fishing quotas or fuel tax (not to demean such things of course).

It would seem to me, with respect, to defy common sense to say that they are all equivalent in their significance - you must know this in your heart?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#18)

PS

I think the important point is that "legitimacy" is not conferred by the government. Legitimacy is conferred on the government by the people. The government serves the people in a democracy (though under our constitution we all technically serve the Monarch).

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#20)

Any your point is???

This government has a democratic mandate granted to it by the votes of the people in the 2005 general election. It's decisions are the legitimate ones, not the decisions of some Tory MP who want's to pretend he's Benjamin bloody Franklin.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#33)

Citizen Andreas

With respect I thought my point was quite straightforward.

You seemed to be counterposing government legitimacy to that of a byelection:

"He may have the right stance, but the 42 day law has been passed by parliament and should be respected"

My point is that in a democracy the highest form or legitimacy is that of the people, who only lend the government the power to act upon their behalf.

The point about a manifesto is that you put a range of policies before an electorate upon which they vote - but they didn't do this with 42 days. It is certainly a legitimate or a lawful government, but  where is the legitimacy for this legislation - forced through with various shabby deals?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#28)

The 42 day law has not been passed by Parliament. It has no chance of being passed by the Lords in its present form, and it is very doubtful whether Brown would be able to get a majority to use the Parliament Act to force it through.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#10)

Look, you're a Tory so of course you don't have Labour's interests at heart. No sane person would consider Labour cowardly for not putting up a candidate for Davis' PR stunt.

Brown, on this issue, won't look cowardly or like a loser, but Davis will look like a prat.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#14)

Well, NorthernMonkey, lets just see if the electorate agree with you. Because I think that the public will not see it as a "stunt" and they will think that Labour is cowardly. And I don't think they will think Davis looks "like a prat" as you put it.

But we shall see, shan't we.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#21)

No we won't because Davis has only got to beat Miss Yorkshire and the Monster Raving Loony Party. If he's manages to do this, it proves nothing.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#25)

But then you've tied your argument up in knots. If he beats the one party supporting 42 days - Labour  - then a point has been proven. If Labour want to show DD that the public are against his stance, stand against him.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#26)

But as you've been told many times, the public will NOT just vote according to the 42 days argument. And even if they did, a safe Tory seat like Haltemprice and Howden is not representative of the UK at large.

At the moment, Labour are unpopular, Tories are popular (regardless of 42 days) and the Tories will win this faux-by election regardless of what issue Davis pretends it's about (especially as his main rivals, the LibDems, are backing him).

We all know your little game is to intice Labour into standing just so they can get beaten in Davis' own safe seat just so you can say 'ha. the government got it wrong'. Well tough, we're not playing your silly little game.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#32)

I am not suggesting this at all.

 
Under normal circumstances, the party has everything to gain at by-elections and normal elections, even where we may lose our deposits. They are our chance to engage with the electorate, they promote our message at a time when people are most receptive to opinion. There is also a democratic duty that our party should be there to allow Labour supporters and activists in every constituency to participate in the democratic process without being forced to abstain from the process.

 
I will not for one minute suggest that any of these points are not worthwhile or that they somehow do not apply in H&H. I do suggest, however, that they are outweighed by the negative ramifications that standing in this by-election will have for the party as a whole. It will divide us, it lends support and legitimacy to our opponents, it allows our draws an authoritarian-libertarian line between ourselves and our opponents where we stand to lose out, it sets ourselves up for a crushing defeat that will question our popularity, authority and integrity that could prevent us from ever fighting out of the hole we already find ourselves in.

 
The people of H&H should have a Labour candidate in 2010.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#8)

Nobody is really sure why DD did this, least of all DD.
 
But never forget, it is the stronger party who chooses the weapons. If Labour hadn't come up with this 42-day detention nonsense in the first place, then you wouldn't be in the dilemma that you are now!

If you really believe your own propaganda - that two-thirds of voters support this 42-day detention - then it does seem a bit cowardly not to put a candidate.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#29)

The question of whether the public is in favour of 42-days in ambiguous given contrasting poll results and the volatility of the polls – either way, H&H is unlikely to be representative of national public opinion, nor is it likely to electorate there will vote solely on that issue. So there’s not a question of ‘believing our own propaganda’, as far as I was aware, central office has yet to claim that H&H is majority in support of 42 days and will vote accordingly come July 10<sup>th</sup>.

This post was not intended as a for/against argument for 42 days, but rather a debate on the Party’s strategy after 42 days. I am arguing that it is in the Party’s best interests not to stand a candidate, not that the legislation itself was in the Party’s best interests as well.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#11)

Completely agree with the original post.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#12)

I went to our GC and not a single person there thought we should put up a candidate. As for this rubbish about it not being a safe Tory seat - we polled about 6,000 votes last time. Sounds like a safe Tory seat to me. Nearly 50% of the vote is safe under first past the post. It's not cowardly to decide not to stand - it's doing what is in the best interests of the Labour Party. Tories posting on here want to goad us into standing because that would be in the best interests of their party. We shouldn't be fooled by them.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#15)

The point is that we are wrong on 42 days. And if Brown and Co. were really confident that the public would support us they would stand a candidate as we always do in a byelection.

I am a lifelong Labour member but I support what Davis is doing on this one issue, because it is such an important issue - too important to leave to narrow party interests. Clearly Bob Marshall Andrews and Ian Gibson feel the same way, and I know that others in our party, in other parties, and in no party also feel that way.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#23)

Why dont you go join the Tories then if you think Davis is so amazing.

 

The man supports the death penalty, supported section 28 and proposes repealing the Human Rights Act. If you think he is a champion of civil liberties then more fool you, if you support his opportunistic stunt then even more fool you.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#36)

I would never join the Tories because I am a socialist. But I am also a libertarian. In the past this was never seen as a contradiction because Labour has a proud libertarian tradition (we used to have "Liberty" emblazoned on our logo, right up until 1983 - I know it's a poor photo by you can just make out the word "LIBERTY" across the centre of the badge).

Original Labour Party logo

So, in general, I do not support David Davis, who is a right-wing Conservative, nor do I think he has been an exemplary champion of civil liberties. But if he is prepared to make a principled stand on civil liberties now and to draw a line in the sand, then that is a very welcome thing to me - and, I believe, to many others in the party and in the country. If only our leadership were prepared to do the same, rather than pandering to a right-wing tabloid agenda.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#31)

This argument is not about whether 42 days is right or wrong, it is about what is within the best interests of the party (or more appropriately, given your claim to membership, our party). The question of right/wrong and standing/not standing are mutually exclusive. Standing would damage us heavily. Look at what you yourself have stated about your own voting intentions and that of Bob M-A and Ian Gibson – we are divided, and standing will only magnify those divisions. This by-election should bring out the divisions in the Tory party, but if we stand, it will only bring out the divisions in us. Yes, it is important for our party to have this argument with itself, and it is important that the executive are aware that the membership are, it would appear to be, against this legislation – but haven’t we already had this? Do we really need to do this in front of the whole nation?

 
Picture the scene, we stand, and where do Sky News, the BBC and the Press go? They shove the microphone straight towards people like Bob M-A and Ian Gibson, and no matter how diplomatic their statements will be, it is we who look divided, it is we who will lose out in the eyes of the electorate.

 
You are correct in suggesting that this is an issue which transcends party politics – but is that not a reason why we should not stand?

 
Standing as a party will draw out new and unfavourable lines for future Labour-Tory battles to be fought on. We will fight it, by default, as the authoritarian party due to the Tory libertarian stance, and like it or not, this tag will stick and we will lose out because of it.

 
The best interests for the party is to not stand in H&H and dismiss it for what it is – an egotistical trip by a sorry excuse for a libertarian. If we do so, we avoid the divisions, we avoid the authoritarian tag (for now) and we avoid the “Crushing Defeat” headlines.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#34)

The electorate is not stupid. They know Labour is divided on this issue, and they know that Brown is authoritarian.  This will remain true whether or not Labour fields a candidate.  Not fielding a candidate simply adds "cowardly" and "treating the electorate with contempt".  The only hope for Labour is that these labels will stick to Gordon but not to the post-Gordon party.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#35)

People may well ‘know’ that Labour is divided on the issue, and they may ‘know’ that Gordon Brown is authoritarian, but they will certainly be confirmed if we do chose to fight H&H. Fighting it will accentuate the existing divisions, but whereas this was done last week in the Commons division chambers, in H&H, this will be done in the full glare of the media eager for a story. We have the possibility of Labour MPs campaigning against our own campaign if we stand – is there any greater show of disunity than that? The electorate may well believe us to be the authoritarian of the two main parties, but giving them a chance to vote for us solely on that division will confirm that belief for elections to come, even when they are contested on a whole spectrum of issues (something that we should avoid).

Even so, there are several other benefits in not standing which you have not addressed. Why stand when it will only lengthen the exposure to a story which we know is becoming increasingly unpopular? Why fight a by-election, called in part due to Labour’s capacity to govern as a popular party, in a Tory safe seat where we have no chance of winning and the result will be incredibly damaging to the public’s perception of our ability to govern? Why give in to our opponents desires to come out and fight when all fighting will do is to add credibility to their inevitable victory in this constituency? From a wholly democratic standpoint, why should we endorse the view that the electorate of H&H should speak for the nation? Why should we endorse Davis’ decision to call a by-election where he is standing again, is certain of the result, and is inevitably a waste of taxpayer’s money?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#37)

ppbarrett

"This by-election should bring out the divisions in the Tory party, but if we stand, it will only bring out the divisions in us. Yes, it is important for our party to have this argument with itself, and it is important that the executive are aware that the membership are, it would appear to be, against this legislation – but haven’t we already had this? Do we really need to do this in front of the whole nation?"

You raise a very important point here. It is immensely frustrating to me as a party member to feel that we now have very little influence over party policy, and Gordon Brown's further "reforms" at the last Conference will contribute further to the destruction of our democratic policy making. I sincerely hope that the National Policy Forum championed by the CLGA can be made to work - but I have serious doubts about this. For ten years we have made the party itself more and more authoritarian and thereby swept away internal debate.

So is the "executive" aware of opposition in the party to 42 days? And if they are, do they care? Who knows?

Personally I have been lobbying my Labour MP on civil liberties for months - but at the end of the day, despite their reservations, they obeyed the whip. Our internal democracy barely functions, our lobbying is countered by a system of patronage (that Brown promised to reform...) - what else can we do but resort to public debate and the admittedly absurd situation of having to support a right-wing Tory because so few people in the party hierarchy are prepared to fight the corner for liberty.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#45)

I agree, and I completely sympathise with your frustrations, and agree that the growing gap between the membership and the executive is a real cause for concern (that might be an understatement for many people!). This has been endemic of our party's most recent legislative proposals - the scandal of 42 days detention has similar parallels with the 10p tax debacle for example. I do not wish to post here and claim that we shouldn't question those at the top, far from it, we definetly should, it's the sort of inner-party scrutiny that keeps our legislative agenda and manifestos progressive and appealing. However, there is a time and place for that scrutiny, again, I won't suggest that the NPF is particularly good at this, however, hasn't the parliamentary debate brought out the tensions within the party via the Labour MPs who did rebel?

 If we go through the same process again, but instead do so in H&H where we will open up our party wounds in the glaring eye of the camera, it will not add anything or be any more productive. How will Newsnight footage of card-carrying Labour members canvassing on behalf of David Davis aid our efforts in anyway? GB must know we're annoyed, his MPs will have relayed that to him, and if he chooses to continue ignoring the membership, it will be at his (eventual) peril.

 What we cannot do is to have this debate in the glare of the media and the public which will do no good to our future electoral prospects now or in the future. If we do so, we will tarnish the entire party, not just the executive, who are unlikely to suffer at all. For the most part, the cabinet will keep their parliamentary seats come the next election, it is the PPCs, the councillors, the marginal seat MPs and all the activists who go with them who will be harmed.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#46)

Many apologies for the coherency of that post, I was in a bit of a rush!

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#38)

Does anyone know the last time the Labour Party didn't contest a seat in a by-election in Great Britain?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#39)

Yes, NB, that is a very good question - does anybody here know the answer...?

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#40)

Who cares? Since this isn't a proper by-election it doesn't count.

Re: When did Labour not fight a byelection? (#41)

Very helpful! An election is an election - ask the people of Haltemprice and Howden whether they think it will be a "proper" election.

You know as well as I do that if we thought we had any chance of winning or even improving our vote there we would have stood. You impugn elections at your peril Northernmonkey.

So, seriously, when was the last time Labour did not contest a British by-election...? Anybody?

Re: When did Labour not fight a byelection? (#42)

Well, I’m guessing the answer you are looking/hoping for is never.

 
An election may well be an election, but Northern Monkey raises a completely valid point. This is a peculiar situation and I don’t think we should particularly be using historical precedent as a justification for standing or not standing, we must be pragmatic.

 
After all, the question can easily be turned on its head: when was the last time a sitting MP resigned over an issue and re-stood with very little chance of losing and has used the election as a political weapon to attempt to divide our party?

Re: When did Labour not fight a byelection? (#43)

ask the people of Haltemprice and Howden whether they think it will be a "proper" election.

And most of them will say 'no'.

Re: Standing Against Davis is Political Suicide (#44)

I may well be wrong after all...click here

However, there's a difference between 'I think Labour should put up a candidate' and 'I will not vote for the Labour party because they did not put up a candidate in H&H in 2008'. The latter is our concern and I believe that it will not damage us come the time of a general election. Please correct me if you disagree.