Policy discussion: how do we open up admissions to faith schools?

Mike Ion Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 02:12:38 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Update: The full version of this piece can be found on the Guardian's Comment is Free website.

According to the Catholic Education Service it is spurious to suggest that removing the absolute right of a religious community to educate its own children by introducing a percentage non-faith quota for Church schools would aid social cohesion. I'm not so sure. Why? Well as someone whose teaching career was solely in the VA RC sector I would argue that it is neither spurious nor indeed contrary to the mission of the Church. Indeed I would go further and challenge the CES to publish a complete list of Catholic schools (secondary in particular) where it is already custom and practice that between 20% - 30% of the intake is from other faith backgrounds or none.



Opening up faith schools to people of different faiths (or none) would be a positive move towards greater social and educational inclusion. After all a truly 'Christian school' is surely one that seeks to be open and accessible to all as well as paying particular attention to the needs of the marginalized and the poor. What is needed is a mature, open and honest debate about the type of educational system various faith groups would be happy to support and indeed help shape in the twenty-first century. Should it be an inclusive, comprehensive system that intrinsically values and caters for all pupils regardless of their spiritual, economic or social capital? Or should it be a two-tier, elitist system that perpetuates privilege, does not help promote the common good and is contrary to the message of the Christian gospel?

Here are some practical suggestions for reform:

1. Insist that all state funded VA schools set a aside a minimum of 20% of its annual intake for the pupils of parents of other faiths or none.

2. Require all VA schools to publish their admission figures (criterion referenced) annually.

3. Require all VA schools to provide LAs with action plans (updated annually) as to how the school will actively seek to promote community cohesion.

Do you agree? What else might we add?


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Policy discussion: how do we open up admissions to faith schools? | 24 comments (24 topical)

LEAVE US BE!! (#1)

by FreedomAndTruth on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 02:37:11 PM GMT

Why is Labour so intent on constantly interfering in people's lives? I'm sick of it.

Everything Labour has done in the name of 'social cohesion' has had the opposite effect to the pretended one.

All these "hate" laws: religious and "sexuality" and whatever else now just seem to make people hate each other more than ever.

THERE IS NO EQUALITY - JUST A HIERARCHY OF IDEOLOGIES.

I am not a catholic, but if they want their children brought up in a particular way, what does that have to do with the rest of us?

The Government hates believers because it wants us to worship them and the Beast instead.

People are bound to hold grudges when their lives keep getting interfered with and told their group is not as good as another group.

It is called divide and rule and has been used successfully by tyrannical governments for millennia.

Stop trying to micromanage all our lives!

LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE!!


Re: LEAVE US BE!! (#5)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 09:49:40 PM GMT

It's absolutely laughable how you criticise Labour for interfering when we're simply trying to 'free' schools and parents from the grip of the Church.

WHY CAN'T THE CHURCH LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE!!!

For any parent who wants to get their child into a faith school because of its good quality (rather than because they believe in that particular religion), they are effectively forced into attending church services and into lying about their own faith. Why should this be? Those good quality schools should be open to all regardless of religion.

Nobody is stopping Catholics from raising their children as Catholics, but it should be done in their own time and not using taxpayers money.

State money should not be used to segregate children along religious and ethnic lines at an early age, nor should it fund indoctrination projects of various Churches.

It's time to free education from the grip of religious faith.


[ Parent ]

Re: LEAVE US BE!! (#13)

by Floating voter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:22:20 PM GMT

".... we're simply trying to 'free' schools and parents from the grip of the Church."

Simple enough. Outlaw faith schools. All faith schools. Education up to the age of 18 must be by state, non-religious schools. No religion should be taught in schools.

If people want to give their kids a religious dimension to their education then they can take them to church/synagogue/temple/mosque etc. etc. 

Churches have no place in running educational institutions for non-adults. Religion is a  choice, not a necessity. 

 


[ Parent ]

Re: Faith schools (#2)

by jkitleft on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 03:38:33 PM GMT

.............Anyway, ignoring the above post, I think this is an important discussion. It is aiding social segregation. 34% of children in Islamic secondary schools are on free school meals, double the national average. When this becomes the case in many cities vunerable to race riots, like in Oldham or Bradford, not only do faith schools for Christains get set up, but it exposes the inequality in our society. The number of those on free school meals in Christain schools drops to between 11-13%, I think.

Secondly, these schools, rather than segregating different religious groups, end up segregating different ethnic groups.

Thirdly, if we are to clean up the admissions policy, we should make sex education compulsory in all schools, as not only are faith schools failing to enforce this, but 40% of secondary schools do not teach sex education.


Re: Policy discussion: how do we open up (#3)

by Wiseman on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 04:32:07 PM GMT

I don't believe in faith schools.  I teach in an inner-city comprehensive and it is an honour to deal with many different children from different faiths.  We need inclusion, not exclusion.  I am a catholic, but what we need is a good general education and to be taught that everbody should be treated equally in society.

John Wiseman


Re: Policy discussion: how do we open up (#18)

by HOWLERMONKEY on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:13:48 PM GMT

My God...Thears a first, I agree with you!


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion: how do we open up... (#4)

by matt1986 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:01:17 PM GMT

I suppose the reforms you suggest are good ones, if we have to try and make the best of a bad situation. However, the ultimate goal should be to make sure faith schools don't exist at all; there's no positive place for them in Britain. Without them, social cohesion would automatically be greatly aided.


Re: Policy discussion: (#6)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 09:53:38 PM GMT

Here are some practical suggestions for reform:

1. Insist that all state funded VA schools set a aside a minimum of 20% of its annual intake for the pupils of parents of other faiths or none.

2. Require all VA schools to publish their admission figures (criterion referenced) annually.

3. Require all VA schools to provide LAs with action plans (updated annually) as to how the school will actively seek to promote community cohesion.

Do you agree? What else might we add?

Completely agree Mike.


Re: Policy discussion (#7)

by Anonymous X on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:35:37 AM GMT

To put it simply, Faith Schools are one of the most morally repugnant and socially divisive policies that Labour have enacted in power. It's another terrible idea that was only conjured up to "triangulate" against the Tories and win right-wing Middle England votes. I'm appalled that a Labour government have done more to increase ethnic  separatism than the BNP.


Re: Policy discussion (#8)

by Mike Ion on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 06:29:06 AM GMT

What a silly comment. Labour did not 'enact' Faith schools and as to the BNP comment...

I can see why you want to remain anonymous when you make comments like this.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion (#9)

by rwendland on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:13:34 AM GMT

Mike, I'm not sure the comment is silly. Look at the regulations recently enacted controlling the creation and closure of new schools. A LA now has to jump through hoops to create a new ordinary LA Community School:

4. LAs ... must ... promote diversity and increase parental choice.

11. Where the LA wish to see a new school established they must either:
• invite proposals ... The process is generally referred to as a “competition”. This is expected to be the route by which most new schools will be established; or • apply to the Secretary of State for consent ...

1.8 If the LA wish to make proposals for a community school in the competition [depending on theie APA-rating] they should apply to the Secretary of State

Although any independent group can try to promote new schools, in practice it will be the religous groups that will organise to do this.

Prior to these regulations, under Blair, the independent School Organisation Committees were created to take over from LEAs the closing & creating of schools - where the churches had 67% of the votes closing or creating new primary schools, and 50% for a school with a sixth-form. This could prevent any reduction (even by a minute % of pupils) of church controlled schools, and I think in practice saw a slow increase in church primary schools.

So I think it is the case that Labour since 1997 has created a regulatory environment that encourages new religous schools. 


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion (#14)

by Floating voter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:28:00 PM GMT

"Labour did not 'enact' Faith schools"

It did not come up with the idea, but it has presided over a massive expansion of faith schools .

 

"as to the BNP comment..."

Society is more racially divided than before. That has happened on Labour's watch. His post contains enough truth to make it sting - don't dismiss it out of hand.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion: faith schools? (#10)

by Radford Mann on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 11:17:39 AM GMT

Alan Johnson was, of course, slapped down by the then PM, Tony Blair when he proposed something as mild as a 20% minimun quota for children of a different faith.

My suggestions, for what they're worth are:

1. Abolish faith schools. Ok, that's not going to happen so,

2. Make a separation between the 'ethos' of the school and admission arrangements. The government and opposition both use the language of parental choice, but faith schools tend to be able to be the ones doing the choosing. I propose that faith ought not to be allowed as an admission criterion. Where there is a situation of oversubscription for a particular school, this should be resolved by ballot.

This would allow any parent who wanted their children to be educated in a particular faith school to have a fair chance of getting their wish. In many cases, as Mike notes, faith schools have a variety of faiths represented in the pupil body anyhow. It's in places like Nottingham and elsewhere where faith becomes a proxy for social selection with the few 'good' schools in an area being able to select by parental income - ability to buy a house in the right catchment area, or by faith. If we are serious about either fairness or parental choice then we have to remove the privilage of choice on the basis of faith from schools and let anyone in.


Policy discussion: Faith schools (#11)

by NarrowlyUpbeat on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 01:01:50 PM GMT

You can read envy and jealousy oozing from every pore in Mikes post. Stealing from the here and now rather than putting in the hardwork to replicate success is the hallmark of most left-wing thinking (but not all).

Many faiths schools have taken failing state schools and turned them around to have decent values & the best educational standards in the area.

Rather than preaching the politics of envy I would prefer to see Labour reaching out and learning the best lessons from  everyone and after some time with hardwork sharing these opportunities for all.


Re: Policy discussion: Faith schools (#12)

by NorthernMonkey on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 04:57:04 PM GMT

Boring, boring, boring.

Can you Tories actually ever make a reply without resorting to 'oh you must be jealous, its the policy of envy' blah blah.

Why on earth would we be jealous of faith schools? It's not the faith that makes them good, it's the ethos. There's no reason why the ethos (the discipline, the uniform etc.) cannot be kept but the religious discriminatory barriers removed.

Why exactly do you think taxpayers money should be spent on segregating children along religious and ethnic lines from the age of 4?


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion: Faith schools (#15)

by Floating voter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:33:00 PM GMT

"Why exactly do you think taxpayers money should be spent on segregating children along religious and ethnic lines from the age of 4?"

Perhaps you (NorthernMonkey) could explain it to me because that is exactly what is happening now. Today. Outside my window I can two PRIMARY schools without moving from my desk. On the left, a Church of England one, on the right a catholic one. Segragation by religion at age 4.

It happening now and the govt is funding it. 


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion: Faith schools (#19)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:38:16 PM GMT

I know and I fully agree. The government should have at least followed their 25% non-faith quota but they couldn't even manage that.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion: Faith schools (#17)

by rwendland on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM GMT

> Many faiths schools have taken failing state schools and turned them around

Perhaps - but show some evidence - as the opposite is happening in my area. The proposal here is to merge a poor performing CofE school with an "Outstanding" (OFSTED) non-religous school to create a new CofE school, to try to get some Building Schools for the Future money, and lose the surplus secondary capacity in the CofE school. I think the proposal for CofE is beacuse otherwise there would be no secondary CofE provision in the area, and the Diocese would resist.


[ Parent ]

Re: Faith schools are usually oases of quality (#16)

by NB on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:03:52 PM GMT

The UK has already slipped to near the bottom of the OECD in independent tests of school quality.  Without the faith schools and grammar schools we'd be at the bottom.  In many places the faith schools are the only oases of quality in the state education system.  They do not belong to the state and politicians should not be tinkering with them.

In fact most CofE faith schools have large numbers of muslim puplis, and all promote social cohesion.  Encouraging all schools to promote social cohesion is OK if this is done in a sensible light-touch way - heavy-handed regulation generally has the opposite effect to that intended. But with vast number of failing schools devastating the life chances of the poorest and most vulnerable in our society, trying to kick the best state schools shows a very poor sense of priorities.


Re: Faith schools are usually oases of quality (#20)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:43:26 PM GMT

Without the faith schools and grammar schools we'd be at the bottom

Any evidence for this? Why on earth would discrimination on the basis of religion make a school better? It makes no sense.

I couldn't care less whether a faith group owns the school - but they should not be allowed to select pupils on the basis of their supposed faith.

And faith schools do not promote social cohesion at all. By dividing students up on religious lines (muslims go the one school, Jews go to another, Catholics to another etc.) you're causing great societal problems in the years ahead.


[ Parent ]

Re: Faith schools are usually oases of quality (#21)

by NB on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:41:58 PM GMT

Pick almost any area (I've picked W London where I live).  Of the 20 best state primary schools in the area all but nos 7, 12, 16, and 18 are faith schools, despite the fact that faith schools are less than 25% of all schools. And nos 2,3 & 4 of the top state secondary schools are faith schools as well, despite the fact that they account for less than 5%.

As for why teachers and puplis who really believe in love, truth, honesty, discipline, spiritual and moral values might produce better results - go figure...


[ Parent ]

Re: Faith schools are usually oases of quality (#22)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:33:07 PM GMT

I'm sorry, are we still talking about religion here? Because I'm not aware of any religious organisation which practices those values. The only religions I know are the ones that spend more time discussing gays than war or famine and the ones that aim to curb freedom by calling anything they don't like 'sinful'.

A 'belief in love, truth, honesty and morality' seems to be a just description of your average non-believer.

And if some faith schools in one particular area happen to do well then it will be because of the school's ethos, not because they discriminate on the basis of faith. Keep the ethos, ban the discrimination and indoctrination.


[ Parent ]

Re: Faith schools are usually oases of quality (#23)

by jkitleft on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 01:30:33 PM GMT

The only time where I have seen all religions unite, singing 'I'd like to teach the world to sing' and drinking Coca-Cola, was when major religious leaders were protesting against the bill banning discrimination against gays.

Faith schools encourage the worst kind of discrimination. I have many religious friends, but they keep their faith personal and private. One of my Muslim friends says she can't prove god exists, and therefore she doesn't hold any views that would harm others just because she is religious: she has gay friends, Jewish friends and is pro-choice. But I couldn't be friends with someone who uses their faith to justify the supposed views of someone they cannot prove exists.

Lets look at how these schools encourage segregation. Who here has seen the outside of a Jewish school? I go to a school which has to have armed guards, and concreted bomb proof enterances, as I go to school next to the Israeli embassy. This is the kind of security that Jewish schools in North London require. Bullet proof and bomb proof windows, armed guards, security screens etc. This can only intensify the poor relations between adherents of different religions


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy discussion (#24)

by raresurreylabourmember on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 09:11:00 PM GMT

I think all 3 of those are good suggestions. As for something to add, I think we need to toughen up on blatant cases on indoctrination - such as the example of Emmanuel College teaching creationism. I expect this will get a reply from someone saying that it would be the state intervening in the rights of parents to have their children taught what they want. However, the case here is simple - most people agree that schooling should be compulsory. Someone should only be excused from that compulsory education if they are getting an education elsewhere to the same standard. There is a difference between granting a parent the right to teach their child something on top of their school education and giving them the right to prevent their child receiving the basic education society deems necessary, with a basic minimum curriculum.


Policy discussion: how do we open up admissions to faith schools? | 24 comments (24 topical)