David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!'

Tom Harris MP Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:24 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

My old class mate (college class, that is, not social class) George Pascoe-Watson, the Sun's political editor, just said something on Sky that's taken me by surprise. Referring to Dave's commitment to campaign for David Davis in the forthcoming self-inflicted by-election, George said this might mean that the Tories "might not stand a candidate against him". What on earth does that mean? That DD has resigned as a member of the Conservative Party? That he won't be the Tories' official candidate?

Davis's own claim that this by-election will give his electorate an opportunity to pass judgment is perhaps true, but what happens if and when he arrives back at the Commons with his new mandate? That the 70,000 voters in Haltemprice and Howden should have a veto over policy agreed by the House of Commons, a policy supported by an overwhelming majority of citizens (including, presumably, a similar proportion of Haltemprice and Howden's voters)?

The rather magnificent Denis MacShane is on Sky at the moment, being gloriously patronising about DD's "little by-election". At least half of the Labour MPs I met in the tearoom in the past hour have told me they think Labour shouldn't stand a candidate. Not sure yet; we should probably let the dust settle before that decision is taken.

I had lunch a few weeks ago with a good friend of DD's who said DD had given up any hope of leading his party. If rumours about an irreconcilable split between Dave and DD are true, could this be DD's last throw of the dice, a chance to attract some attention after years in Dave's shadow? He says he wants to take a stand against government infringements on civil liberties. Does that mean he feels that no-one else in his party (aka Dave) is willing to do so?

What is fascinating about Dave's most recent pronouncement in this is his statement that "I wish him well" in his by-election campaign. He sounded like a disinterested commentator, not the leader of the Opposition and the Conservative Party.

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David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' | 25 comments (25 topical)

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#1)

by Wilberforce on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:32:20 PM GMT

It is indeed good to see a principle.

But the fact is there was already a National debate on 42 days yesterday, and the government won the case.

Given Davis got 22,000 votes last time and the Lib dems 17,000 , and Labour, and he had Lib Dem agreement not to stand before he resigned, he has no risk at all of losing.

What he actually did was launch a bid for the leadership of the Conservative party. Watch out Cameron!


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#2)

by e10rifles on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:52:44 PM GMT

the government won the case

If that's what you call it.



[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#5)

by snowflake5 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:11:43 PM GMT

Spot on. This is about challenging Cameron.

Davis doesn't give a toss about Magna Carta (or he wouldn't have voted for 28 days detention). And he's in favour of capital punishment. So he objects to an innocent man being detained for an extra two weeks (even though he'll be compensated at eye-watering rates if he's innocent), but he's happy if an innocent man gets hung by mistake! Eeuw!

Labour opponents thinking of supporting Davis simply because they oppose 42 days should think hard about who they are getting into bed with. There is nothing "liberal" about a man who is in favour of capital punishment.

I too think Labour shouldn't field a candidate and let Davis contest this against the Monster Loonies and UKIP.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#18)

by Floating voter on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 04:10:12 PM GMT

"So he objects to an innocent man being detained for an extra two weeks (even though he'll be compensated at eye-watering rates if he's innocent)"

 On Question Time last night, Tony McNulty denied flatly that compensation will be paid.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#20)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:54:25 AM GMT

Go and look up Hansard (the official record of the Parliamentary debate - the offer of compensation is recorded)


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#29)

by treborc on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:49:02 AM GMT

God your argumentive Snowfalke, yes it says compensations what it does not say is how much, one comment was £3,000 a day which was refuted, but a  court of Human rights might put millions onto it. So compensation might well be in doubt.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#19)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:53:16 AM GMT

"Someone who is hanged has however been through a trial and is therefore not innocent"

So you've never heard of unsafe convictions where the convicted was found to have been innocent after all? The Birmingham Six for instance?

The last woman to have been executed in Britain was convicted wrongly for murder and hung when the conviction should have been manslaughter and jail. That was the reason the law was changed - and there was cross-party support for the abolition of the death penalty. You can make postumous pardons but can't bring the dead person back to life

Yet David Davis in 2003 was arguing for the return of the death penalty in the commons, even though recent judicial reviews have brought up hundreds of unsafe convictions. If someone has been convicted and jailed wrongly and their conviction overturned, they can be released and compensated.

If someone is held for an extra two weeks without charge and they are innocent, they can be can be released and compensated.

If someone is hung by mistake, that's it, the state has commited judicial murder. But it's hard to get this point through to David Davis' pea-brain (and his equally dim supporters).  


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#26)

by Free Radical on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 01:01:22 AM GMT

Exactly BritishAsian. The critical point is about the dispensing of justice. Somebody who has been imprisoned but not charged is being denied justice - hence the famous phrase in Magna Carta "To no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or justice" - often formulated in the cliche "justice delayed is justice denied."


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#3)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:59:48 PM GMT

A PR stunt that's severely backfiring on him - nothing more.

Tom, I hope you tell those in the higher echelons of the party to boycott this farce!


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#4)

by HOWLERMONKEY on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:11:04 PM GMT

I hope that we will not stand . Lets make the idiot look more like an idiot than he dose now.  It now looks that the Tory's won't feald a candidate.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#6)

by swatantra on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:13:16 PM GMT

Lets expose the duplicitousness of Davis behind this stunt. It wasn't really necessary and the good electors of H&H don't really want to be troubled with questiions of indivdual liberties; surely that's why they elect MPs for.  The good electors have enough on their plate with rising food, petrol and mortagages to contend with, without having intellectual and philosophical problems to deliberate. The fact is, Davis just simply got fed up with the direction the Tories were heading and decided to call it a day, and throw in the towel. He should have come clean, and said so and he wanted to do something different, instead of hiding behind arguments of conscience.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#7)

by jkitleft on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:40:37 PM GMT

It's a farce, that is designed to drag Cmaeron to the right...oh wait, Cameron already is dangerously right-wing.

There was no debate though. The government simply told us that it would help the police. They didn't seem to provide any evidence.

I thought MacShane was very poor. Tom, I defend the government more than most people. When the left is pissed about Iraq (which in principle, I supported) and top-up fees and foundation hospitals (the latter I bitterly support), I defend the government for its progressive side. If you wan't to get out your core vote, play up the progressive side. Talk about something like baby bonds more. Don't just shuffle your feet and mumble something about doing the right thing when you introduce a left-wing policy. I am tired of people like Macshane not acting like they're Labour. What does New Labour stand for? I talk to people like Northern Monkey and Grayee, and at least they are principled, at least they're unremittingly Labour. So while you're talking of cunning plans, why doesn't Labour instead be more principled, and show what it is exactly that they stand for, without the tactics displayed yesterday.


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#8)

by Free Radical on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:48:15 PM GMT

I was impressed by Davis' contribution to the debate yesterday, and further impressed by his resignation statement. Whatever the political repercussions and calculations, the point is, as far as I am concerned, that David Davis was on the right side of the debate yesterday and our government (including your good self) on the wrong side. This was a tragedy for the Labour Party, a tragedy for democracy and a tragedy for our country.

David Davis referred rightly to Magna Carta and Habeas Corpus, the right to demand that someone detained be produced before a judge, which has, since 1215, been a cornerstone of the liberty of the subject, a barrier to arbitrary and unlawful imprisonment, and a deterrent to maltreatment and torture.

Yesterday you were one of the people's representatives who voted to give the state the authority to detain people without charge for six weeks.

If the Labour Party really supported this measure (not in our manifesto) there would have been a free vote. You know, I think, that on a free vote the measure would have been lost.

If the Labour Party, of which I am a loyal member, really supports these authoritarian measures then let us stand a high profile candidate against David Davis specifically on the issue of civil liberties. Why, you might even wish to chance your hand?


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#9)

by jkitleft on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:56:40 PM GMT

This is true. In Davis' speech, there were only two measures I differ from his view. I am ambivalent about CCTV cameras, as while they can be rediculously expensive, there have been effective trials in specific areas, and they have caught people like David Copeland. I think that the DNA database may be a good thing, especially with unpunished crimes like rape. But the other issues, like ID cards, 42 day detention, Jury trials, Hate laws, Right to protest etc. I agreed 100% with. This is designed to drag Cameron into repealing this unneccessary law. So I think Davis is being principled, yet it is still a stunt.

I say, why not put Helena Kennedy up? She is firmly on the left, and has a deep commitment to civil rights, and could expose Davis' views on something like capital punishment.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#10)

by swatantra on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:58:18 PM GMT

Helena is in the Lords and can't stand. 
I'd like to see Shami Chakrabati stand as an Independent, unopposed, and take on Davis, if we don't don't put up.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#23)

by swatantra on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:21:17 AM GMT

Although reports suggest that Shami put Davis up to it.
Davis should leave the Commons for the Boardroom, join Liberty and let Shami stand in his place as an Independent on the Liberty Ticket. She would be a lot more effective in the Commons than the limp Tories and Lib Dems we have at present.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#24)

by Free Radical on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:09:28 AM GMT

In fact Shami Chakrabarti tried to dissuade David Davis - hear a very interesting BBC interview with Shami here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7451590.stm 


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#21)

by snowflake5 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:00:50 AM GMT

Habeas Corpus is the right to a trial withinj three days. Davis cheerfully voted for detention for 28 days. So much for his "support" for Habeas Corpus.

Some people on the left are genuinely liberal on these matters. But don't mistake David Davis for a fellow traveller. His a right-wing nut who has manufactured a situation to get at his own party leader and is hoping for a lot of "useful fools" to aid him. Don't play his game.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#22)

by Free Radical on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:14:58 AM GMT

Well, he may have been about as cheerful as many of our Labour MPs in voting for 28 days, and 42 days... i.e. not very.

Of course Davis was utterly wrong to vote for 28 days, but the point is that now, on this issue of 42 days and also on his campaign against the relentless assault on our liberties, he is right and we are wrong. And I do not regard defending liberty as a game in any sense.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#11)

by Group51 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:57:01 PM GMT

"What is fascinating about Dave's most recent pronouncement in this is his statement that "I wish him well" in his by-election campaign. He sounded like a disinterested commentator, not the leader of the Opposition and the Conservative Party."

Well, at least we agree on something.  Very odd indeed.


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#12)

by NB on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 01:49:21 AM GMT

Please don't be deluded by wishful thinking. This is a disaster for Brown.  You say that "presumably the same proportion of electors in H&H will be in favour of 42 days".  But almost no-one who understands the issues is in favour of 42 days. If Labour can find a candidate in favour they will be trounced. If not, then Gordon will look cowardly and Davis will be returned with a 95% majority.

Of course he'll be the Conservative official candidate - Cameron has made this clear. Ask yourself this question: if Smith and Straw had the guts to hold by-elections on this issue, would they retain their seats?


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#14)

by HOWLERMONKEY on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 07:59:49 AM GMT

Yes I think thay would. The "42 days" is very popular with the core labour voter as with the public at large. It's the middle class and media that are far more unhappy with the 42day option.


[ Parent ]

Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#13)

by otware on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 02:35:03 AM GMT

Labour putting up a candidate would be a disaster. Seriously how many Lib Dem voter would back Tory over Labour? Quite a few. More so seeing as it's about the 42 day issue. Labour stand absolutely no chance. The public don't care about this in the great scheme of things - Labour being popular over 42 days is just a blip in the usual 'Bash Gordon while he's down' trend.


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#17)

by Floating voter on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 04:08:06 PM GMT

Tom Harris said: "The rather magnificent Denis MacShane is on Sky at the moment, being gloriously patronising about DD's "little by-election"."

I'm sorry - you find this admriable?  


Re: David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' (#27)

by Diversity on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:54:30 PM GMT

There is a (apparently rather good) Labour candidate in Henley, even though Labour stands no chance in a classic by-election sqeeze. Why not a head to head with Davis in Haltemprice? A Labour candidate is sure to do better there than in Henley; and is there not massive public support for locking up suspected terrorists?


David Davis: 'I have a cunning plan!' | 25 comments (25 topical)