Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego

Labour should not stand a candidate against David Davis in the Haltemprice and Howden by-election to show the stunt up for what it really is - a waste of the electorate's time, and taxpayers' money.

What is the point of a representative democracy if MPs resort to referendum by-proxy every time the majority of their colleagues pass legislation which they oppose? There is a very good reason why the Rousseau model of democracy is unworkable; the electorate elect representatives for a reason and not to then make every decision themselves.

The fact of the matter is that the issue was debated by our elected representatives in Parliament, and a vote was taken. All MPs, elected to represent their constituencies (meant in the broad sense - i.e. both geographically, and ideologically), had a vote, and they were free to use that vote in accordance with their own conscience.

Those who opposed the anti-terror legisation lost. In Parliament. Where legislation is decided.

Moving the debate over this issue to a constituency in Yorkshire is not how legislation in this country should be decided.

Hence I vehemently disagree with the view of former Davis henchman, Iain Dale, on the resignation - that "this isn't about one man's vanity. It is about the ability to sacrifice personal and public advantage for a greater cause." And that: "If [Labour don't field a candidate], they will be treating the issue (and voters) with contempt. The 42 day issue can now be debated fully during the by election campaign."

Rubbish. It is David Davis who is treating the issue (and voters) with contempt. Firstly, he is ignoring the proper institutions in which these matters should (and have) been decided. Secondly, he is forcing the taxpayer to fund his vanity exercise - money which could be better spent on public service provision, not ego-massaging.

Labour would do better to tell it how it is: David Davis put his arguments to Parliament. And lost. Therefore there is no need to re-engage him on this debate in a by-election.

It is to the Lords that Labour's attention should now focus. The bodies of Parliament - not Haltemprice and Howden - is where this matter should rightly be decided.



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Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#1)

Great post - the ego has landed with a bump!  Cameron will be well chuffed - Davis has ousted himself from the Shadow Cabinet to fight a meaningless byelection against the Monster Raving Loonies, and the Tory HQ can give him minimal support or attention. 

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#2)

Completely agree - we should not take part in a collective soothing of Davis' ego.

He's well and truly lost the plot and his own vanity has cost him dearly this time.

Cameron must be delighted to have his old enemy eliminated from the Shadow Cabinet.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#3)

Agree, good post, we shouldn't field a candidate. However, if there is a credible independent candidate who is prepared to stand against Davies softness on terrorism, I for one would get behind them.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#4)

Alexanderbaker

Yours, and other posts on this site show a cavalier attitude to democracy -

"to show the stunt up for what it really is - a waste of the electorate's time, and taxpayers' money."

Firstly, submitting yourself to the electorate is not a "stunt" it is the essence of our democratic system. And, on an issue of such supreme importance how could anybody accuse David Davis of pulling a stunt?

Voting for your representative to parliament is not a "waste of the electorate's time" - how patronising!

Voting is not a waste of taxpayers' money.

It's the kind of attitude to democracy one might expect from Robert Mugabe but I didn't expect to see it on a Labour supporting site...

We risk forgetting just how important democracy is, as we are obviously forgetting just how important ancient liberties are.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#8)

No this is an abuse of the by-election system. You go to the electorate at a general election or a genuine by-election, not just to get publicity because you have your eyes on the Tory leadership. I fully respect his principled stand (thought it does seem hypocritical coming from a Tory such as him), but his response to 42 days is....resign from the shadow cabinet and hold a by-election. It's beyond insane.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#12)

Otware

How can it be an abuse of a democratic system to present yourself to the electorate on a particular issue?

The Chartists called for one year parliaments. And the Athenians with their direct democracy abandoned a war to defend their democratic system against replacement by a representative system.

I think we need to keep the big picture in view, and that is about liberty and democracy.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#5)

What is the point of a representative democracy if MPs resort to referendum by-proxy every time the majority of their colleagues pass legislation which they oppose?

 

Well indeed however it's not every day the government rips up the basis of law in this country that has survived for centuries prior. 

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#7)

Why didn't he do this at the time of the orginal 28 days vote then?  That was the big constitutional break - this is merely a reserve power to further extend the period.  This isn't about principle - it's all about Davis's ego and his spat with Cameron.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#10)

If  Davis is able to keep it to the subject of the erosion  of civil liberties he will be doing us all a favor. As it is Tory supporters are about as divided as Labor’s   as to the right and wrongs of him doing this and the real reason for Davis’s extraordinary behavior. As it is how can we talk about democracy when this act destroys generations of common law.

NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right

Now we are asked to allow the government the freedom to ignore this for up to 42 days under some circumstances. I think a referendum is a great idea it’s a shame that only Davis’s constitutes will have a say.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#6)

I think this post misunderstands the point of holding a by-election. I don't think Davis or anybody seriously believes that the matter will be settled in Haltemprice and Howden; is the by-election not, as many have pointed out already, merely a stunt?

The question we should be asking is what is the purpose of this stunt. Many of this site seem to have accepted New Labour's authoritarian tendency in the name of security, and I believe that there may be elements of this which are justifiable. However, it does Davis and other civil libertarians both in the Conservative Party and other political parties (including the Labour Party) a disservice not to take their objections to 42 days and other erosions of civil liberties seriously.

Hence, if Davis is willing to take up the standard of liberty, I personally plan to support him. I would like to think that this government, which claims to have an argument which resonates with the voters, would at least engage with him in debate - even if they are likely going to lose in Haltemprice and Howden. Otherwise, we might find ourselves in the sorry position of having the Labour Party's position on 42 days being defended by the infamous Kelvin Mackenzie. What a sorry day that will be!

Now of course, it would be right to suggest that the Government has no technical obligation to meet Davis in debate; I do believe however that they have a moral obligation. On matters as important as this, on matters of liberty, I see it as the Government's duty to make the case for erosions of civil liberties, and I am not satisfied that such a case was made in the commons. Much has been said by the so-called 'bribery' of certain MPs in order to win their votes, and though this is of course how politics must function, it seems to me that when dealing with such serious issues it is not enough to simply claim the case has been won in Parliament.

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#9)

I think it would be a big mistake to simply Rubbish what Davis is doing. As it is Davis is taking a very big risk with his political future and it may well backfire. I think he is right to protest, by allowing detention for up to 42 days we are tearing up Magna Carta. Of course if every time an act was forced through parliament it resulted in this kind of behavior it would be very bad for democracy. However in this case there were a number of MP’s on both sides of the house who felt they could not support the “Dear Leader”.

Sometimes there has to be an outcry to stop a perceived threat to civil liberties. As it is Labour will be dammed if they stand and double dammed if they do not. I can see the headlines now “Labour unable to find a candidate who is willing to blight his career by nailing his flag to this mast “ Or “ Labour  running  scared of massive defeat”.  As it is Davis is standing against 42 day detention and ID Card’s as well as highlighting the eroded state of our civil liberties.  I wish we all could have a vote on this matter  but we know the Party and most especially the beloved leader is sacred  of referendums

 

Re: Labour should not indulge David Davis' ego (#11)

Spot on Alexander. The Commons has decided , and a democrat respects the result. Personally I was against the 42 day proposal, but this stunt is daft. As is complaining that the result is due to Labour MPs being bribed or cajoled into supporting the government- as Andrew Rawnsley points out on Politics Home, 37% of Tory MPs secretly support 42 days and would have voted the other way if they hadn't been whipped.