Why Labour shouldn't allow the unions to dictate policy

The unions only represent a small proportion of society

There are three main groups in the Labour party: the constituency parties, the elected members of parliament (the parliamentary party) and the affiliates (the unions, Co-operative society and other groups).

The unions, taking advantage of Labour's poor financial situation, are agitating to dictate policy. The GMB has decided to cut funding to MPs who support Labour party policies that the union disaproves off. Instead they intend to "to put more cash into encouraging its members to take more control over constituency parties so the union has more influence over party policies".

This is a direct threat to the primacy of the constituency parties who select and support MPs/parliamentary candidates and do the donkey work at elections. Here's the reason why this would be a bad thing.

Firstly, the unions only represent a narrow section of the population. Union membership has been declining over time - see the graph linked to at the bottom of this piece. According to the ONS, union membership was 28.4% of employees as at December 2006. Given that the workforce is some 29.5 million, union membership is around 8.3 million. Worse only 25% of those aged between 25 and 34 are union members and only 21.4% of employees in the south east are union members. In addition union membership is concentrated in certain areas - public sector workers, factories, cleaners. Whole industries such as the IT industry are non-unionised and therefore not represented by the union movement.

Constituency party members on the other hand come from all walks of life, all professions, all demographics and Labour has a constituency party in every single part of Great Britain. Constituency members are therefore better placed to reflect and represent the population at large. As soon as John Smith wrested control of the Labour party away from the unions and gave it to the constituency members, party policy began to be attractive to voters and Labour won three consecutive general elections.

44 million people are eligible to vote in the UK. We cannot just concentrate on the needs of 8.3 million union members. If we ignore the 35.7 non-union voters (some of whom are retired) then we doom ourselves to defeat. This is not to say that we ignore the needs of unions entirely - we should take the approach taken in 1997 where we had some policies for every group, including unions. But we cannot formulate policy soley with reference to the unions.

However Labour does have a funding problem. How to solve this? The only rational answer is to expand the membership of the constituencies. I would expect any future leader of the Labour party to come up with a strategy to do this, including a Labour version of the donation model pioneered by Barack Obama, which he has used to great success.

Potential leaders putting forward the tired old formula of "let's get closer to the unions, we need their money" or "let's focus on getting big donations from millionaires" will get short shrift. Potential leaders who can formulate an effective strategy to increase the party's membership base and introduce online fund-raising will get the nod. I know this seems like a huge ask, given where the Labour party is at the moment, but we might as well make these demands from those who would lead us - it's the only way to ensure we get elected to government

P.S. I was trying to insert a graph of union membership over time but it failed to load properly. Click here to view it in a new window.

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Re: Why Labour etc (#1)

More ill-informed rubbish.

8.3 million members? Think for a moment how many people that is. Think how many votes Labour has lost since 1997. Try and think of another organisation which people voluntarily pay money to be a member of which comes anywhere near 8.3m.

Union membership levels do not exist in a vacuum. One of the reasons for the decline in recent decades has been Tory attacks on unions and New Labour's failure to reverse those attacks when in power.

180,000 Labour Party members, overwhelmingly middle-class, are more representative of the population?

Do me a favour.

And this is about the single most historically inaccurate statement I have ever read on Labourhome: "As soon as John Smith wrested control of the Labour party away from the unions and gave it to the constituency members, party policy began to be attractive to voters and Labour won three consecutive general elections."

Re: Why Labour etc (#2)

You might think 8.3 million members is a lot - but they can never overwhelm 35 million non-union voters. If you think otherwise, you need to re-do your GCSE Maths.

A modicum of intelligence will show you that we need to woo the non-union voters. if this was true in 1997, it's even more true now, as union membership has fallen from around 33% in 1995 to 28% now - this despite all the jobs created under New Labour and the huge expansion of the workforce. Think about this for a moment - more people are working than ever before and the unions can't persuade them to join. If unions can't even persuade people to join them, how can following union policies persuade anyone to vote Labour?

Also, all union members don't vote. Let's assume that voting is in line with the general election turnout of 60% - that brings it down to 4.98 million. And you can't guarantee that those who turn out will 100% vote for Labour. Indeed many will vote LibDem, Tory, Green or BNP. 

Finally about whether the Labour party has any middle class members - yes, in the south the middleclass is well represented in the Labour party. And among southern members are professions that are not unionised (accountancy, IT etc). Why should this part of the Labour membership be ignored? Especially as to win general elections we need to keep our southern seats. 

Some of us in the south fighting to hold on to seats are fed-up of this foolish nostalgia for the cloth-cap era. Wake up! It's 2008. Even the poor don't fancy labelling themselves as poor - which is why people resist joining unions - it's akin to putting a badge on your forehead saying "I'm the underclass". If the unions can reinvent themselves, display fresh thinking and expand their membership, then they'll be worth listening to - and only then. Unions will have to reinvent themselves anyway - as the old members retire, membership will shrink badly as there is not much replacement by the young.

Re: Why Labour etc (#3)

I can't believe anyone is still coming out with this 80s crap.

First off, I never suggested that union members should "overwhelm" non-union members electorally. The Labour Party cannot only represent union members, but when in power it should do all it can to enable and encourage union membership. This it has failed to do, leading to the unfortunately low membership density you mention.

Secondly, I never for a moment suggested ignoring party members in the south. There's only one person on this thread has suggested ignoring a chunk of our membership and that's you.

You are particularly stupid if you associate trade unions with "the cloth-cap era" or thinkg that people don't join unions because it's akin to putting a badge on your forehead saying "I'm the underclass". That has to be one of the most retarded things I have read on this website or any other.


Unions "reinvented themselves" with service unionism in the 80s and 90s and it completely and utterly failed.


If unions continue to decline, that is bad for the nation as a whole. We expect the Tories to do nothing for working-class people but the fact that Labour has done so little for trade union rights (which are the same as workers' rights) is a disgrace.


Re: Why Labour etc (#4)

"If unions continue to decline, that is bad for the nation as a whole"

Unions are declining because they arn't making themselves attractive to people. Government can't make unions attractive, only the unions can. And you can start by acknowledging that people do think that joining a union is akin to putting a badge on their heads saying "I'm the underclass".

Your movement is declining because you are stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that it is 2008, not 1978.

Re: Why Labour etc (#5)

No, they are declining because the Labour government set up by and for trade unions has failed to reverse legislation which makes them relatively toothless and to make the case for membership after the batterings of the Tory years.

I think your comment about the underclass is extremely insulting and reveals more about your view of the working class of this country than anything else.

But your comment about "2008 not 1978" says it all really. Unions are no more or less relevant depending on what the year is. If you really think that then you haven't got the first idea of what a trade union is. Since 1978 we have had anti-union governments and policies. No wonder membership is in decline. The Labour Party has jumped ship to the other side. Capital is triumphing. That is Blair's legacy. Well done.

Re: Why Labour etc (#6)

The legislation in the eighties was not anti-trade unions overtly. Abolishing the closed shop, and allowing postal ballots for elections and srikes encourages democracy and choice.

Re: Why Labour etc (#7)

That was not the only legislation passed by Thatcher against the trade unions. FWIW, I don't think a postal ballot is appropriate in all cases and can seriously damage a group of workers' effectiveness.

Re: Why Labour etc (#8)

You really think changing legislation will want to make people join you? LOL, it's a bit like the way the Church of England thinks that banning shopping on Sunday will make people want to go to church!

The only way unions will get more members is to make themselves more attractive.  You seem to mis-understand this point completely when you accuse me of "insulting the underclass". I'm not insulting the underclass. I'm empathising with their hostility to being labelled as such.

Think! Poor people don't want to be labelled as poor. They don't want people pitying them, they don't want to wallow in victimhood. They want to be thought of as normal and regular as other people. Therefore they won't join unions because unions carry the stigma of the underclass. Capiche?  

You are resisting acknowleging that unions have an image problem. But until you acknowledge it, you can't reform and until you reform you won't attract members.

There are loads of things that unions can do to make themselves more attractive. For instance John prescott was sent to Oxford by his union - suppose unions told their members they'd pay for their university fees if they stayed members of the union for 25 years? They'd get takers among the young. Suppose unions turned themselves into credit unions and provided old-fashioned mortgages with low-interest rates. They'd attract members.

There thousands of ideas out there. Unfortunately union members like you are fixated with legislation. No amount of legislation will persuade people to join you if you have a bad image.

Re: Why Labour etc (#9)

Industrial democracy legilsation would probably increase union membership.

Re: Why Labour etc (#11)

Maybe. I think the main problem is the image. Plus the fact that unions are concentrated in certain dying industries, and no one has thought to think about how work has changed. What is the union policy on tele-working for instance?

What do unions have to offer the growing army of self-employed? The unions would say "Nothing, these people don't need unions" - but actually there are loads of services to offer, eg group affiliate pensions and the like.

Unions are really missing a trick by concentrating solely on a few narrow groups. If you think about it, professional organisations like the BMA, the Institute of Actuaries, Chartered accountants etc are union-like, but they won't join the TUC because the union movement insists on it's underclass image.

Re: Why Labour etc (#14)

What the hell is this rubbish?

Professional organisations don't join the TUC because they don't want to be associated with working-class people and they often don't want to "do" politics.

Plenty of unions have self-employed members, especially in the construction industry.

Tele-working? How very 1996.

I just get the message clearer and clearer that you haven't the foggiest what you're on about.

No doubt someone else will have the energy to waste on continuing this further but I'm off for lunch (negotiated by the unions, legislated for following pressure from the unions).

Re: Why Labour etc (#15)

"Professional organisations don't join the TUC because they don't want to be associated with working-class people and they often don't want to "do" politics"

But that's my point - the TUC shouldn't be just about working class people, rather it should be about anyone who works and has common interest. See teh difference? Why bring class into it? And why should the TUC be more about politics than about work?

"Tele-working? How very 1996"

Teleworking didn't exist in 1996, it took off this century, it's a product of the broadband age. Many people in Britain don't just work from home for British organisations, but work at home via the net for orgs located across the globe, and face all sorts of stresses especially with currency fluctuations, cross-continental taxation, and law. Have the unions thought about any of this?

Re: Why Labour etc (#16)

Anyone who works is working class.

How many people tele-work then? I don't know any.

No idea why I'm wasting my time on this but there you go...

Re: Why Labour etc (#10)

You really think changing legislation will want to make people join you?

Perhaps you can explain why the Thatcher years led to such a sudden decrease in membership then if the unions' defeats didn't play a role?

Therefore they won't join unions because unions carry the stigma of the underclass. Capiche?  

No, that's utter crap and you've provided not a shred of evidence for it. In fact, if we're dealing in stereotypes, trade union members were generally the better-paid, upper-working classes and couldn't be further removed from the "underclass".

You are resisting acknowleging that unions have an image problem. But until you acknowledge it, you can't reform and until you reform you won't attract members.

And you're spouting the same crap about reform as we've had for decades. Change the record.


There are loads of things that unions can do to make themselves more attractive. For instance John prescott was sent to Oxford by his union - suppose unions told their members they'd pay for their university fees if they stayed members of the union for 25 years? They'd get takers among the young. Suppose unions turned themselves into credit unions and provided old-fashioned mortgages with low-interest rates. They'd attract members.

Plenty of unions already do things like that. But they are extras. The basic point of unions is to protect people at work and to fight for better terms and conditions for their members. The whole "join the union and get free AA membership" thing has been tried for years. Hasn't made a jot of difference.


There thousands of ideas out there. Unfortunately union members like you are fixated with legislation. No amount of legislation will persuade people to join you if you have a bad image.

Fixated on legislation eh? Remind me why the trade unions bothered to set up the Labour Party all those years ago. One rightwing cretin thinks unions have a bad image? I couldn't care less. There are 8.3million of us and one of you, and I know whose side I'd rather be on.

Re: Why Labour etc (#12)

"Perhaps you can explain why the Thatcher years led to such a sudden decrease in membership then if the unions' defeats didn't play a role?"

Because the union movement got rid of Callaghan by instigating the winter of discontent, made way for Thatcher who caused a recession wiping out many unionised industries forever. Well done you!

Plus unions have a bad image. People don't want to be associated with you.

New Labour has been hugely successful in job creation - 75% of the workforce is employed, some 29.5 million people. Both the percentage and absolute numbers are an all-time record.

Yet unions have failed to persuade these new workers to join them.  Perhaps because these workers think they don't need the union and that existing government plus EU legislation (social chapter) protects them adequately. Perhaps because they don't like the image of unions - certainly many people who heard you say you want to abolish postal ballots would recoil in horror and run in the opposite direction. I think people like you in the union movement are acting as repellants and causing your own movement to die.

Re: Why Labour etc (#13)


You might have a poor image of trade unions but I shan't lose any sleep over it. God help any union branch which you join.

Come back when you can put a bit more meat on your argument to replace the insults and repeated inaccuracies.

Re: Why Labour etc (#17)

I'm not really sure where the whole "unions carry the stigma of the underclass" line of reasoning comes from. I think that you really could do with some evidence to back up that claim.

From a personal point of view, I am not a union member, but not because of any stigma, simply because there was never any union activity at any of the employers I've worked for (I work in IT and have only ever worked in the private sector). I have never been approached by a union rep or had it suggested to me that I should join a union.

I don't think the union's problem is image, the fact that there are large sections of the economy where union's simply aren't active. Whether this could be fixed with legislation, I'm not sure.

Re: Why Labour etc (#18)

I think it is likely to change with time. Amicus is growing in IT.

Until quite late in the 19th century, unions were basically guilds for better off workers. New unionism changed that. Before then, if you'd suggested that dockers could be unionised you would have been laughed at.

As long as people are employed by other people, there will be tension and trade unions will be formed. This happens over a long period though, and legislation or government policies could definitely help this. Imagine if the government embarked on a "get everyone to join a union" campaign on TV, newspapers etc like councils do with registering to vote.

I think being a union member is as important as being registered to vote, if not more so, whether or not your industry and colleagues are unionised.

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow the unions (#19)

The unions are the Labour party, we have at least 6.0 million members affliated to the Labour party, thats a small amount of voters that is, what a small pressure group.  The unions are the most powerful political force in the country if they worked together and influenced the Labour party more.

Forward in comradeship

John Wiseman

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow the unions (#21)

The unions are the Labour party

They are not.

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow the unions (#20)

The unions are the Labour party, we have at least 6.0 million members affliated to the Labour party, thats a small amount of voters that is, what a small pressure group.  The unions are the most powerful political force in the country if they worked together and influenced the Labour party more.

Forward in comradeship

John Wiseman

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow (#22)

I agree. If Labour changes its policies because of cash problems then that is undemocratic.

The unions should not be able to dangle cash amounts over the nose of the Labour leadership (the same applies to millionnaires and business leaders).

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow (#23)

Your consistent failure to distinguish between the morality of millionaires' interests and workers' interests is a microcosm of the intellectual and ethical bankruptcy of New Labour.

Tories and Liberals are for the bosses. Labour are for the workers. Anyone who tells you these two interests are not mutually opposed is a liar.

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow (#24)

Labour are for the workers. That's why I support Helena Kennedy's recommendations for state funding. It would be a socialist policy. If a mum with 3 kids, on the minimum wage, gets to donate the same amount of money as her Thatcherite boss, then that is socialism.

Re: Why Labour shouldn't allow (#25)

However, unlike the current system where paying union subs gets her a say in the political process, she then has to pay subs and go to Labour Party meetings in order to hold the workers' representatives to account.