Police will harass yobs in new plan to tackle antisocial behaviour

BritishAsian Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:05:25 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Thousands of yobs are to be photographed and videoed in big-brother style police operations to tackle persistent antisocial behaviour, the Home Secretary announced today.
 

Suspects will be “harassed” by officers visiting them day and night and issued with repeated warnings about their behaviour under the drive to deal with a hard core of offenders who persist with yobbish behaviour on estates.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3891917.ece




Is it just me or does anyone else feel very uneasy about this? It seems to me this is not the ay the state should use its power. Yes we should go after people seeking unfair advantage and behaving unacceptably / antisocially, like parking criminals and bin criminals and those who try to get their children into the best schools by whatever means.

I do not understand though what is supposed to be gained by the police harassing supposed criminals in this way. These "yobs" are simply poor people turned bad and it seems to me they need help not hatred and harassment. Who decides who is a "yob" anyway? I think of the miners' strike and I ask myself who were the yobs there? 

If a "yob" is someone alienated from the rest of our society, loyal only to his own kind, who seeks thrills and violence often for fun and who does not care about his community, who can be recognised for what he is by his clothing, well then it seems to me that this is equally a description of the police themselves.  

This is the sort of measure a Tory would take is it not? 

Who shall the police harass next? Those who have not voted the right way?

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Police will harass yobs in new plan to tackle antisocial behaviour | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: Police will harass yobs (#1)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:35:11 PM GMT

"I do not understand though what is supposed to be gained by the police harassing supposed criminals in this way"

How about cutting crime / antisocial behaviour? Have you read the article you posted here - the police claim that these tactics have resulted in a sharp decrease in burglaries, criminal damage, and car crime on the estate they targetted.


"Who decides who is a "yob" anyway?"

Well, according to the Times story this strategy is currently being used to target 'a hard core of offenders who persist with yobbish behaviour on estates'...people who have built up criminal records for 'burglary, intimidation, criminal damage, vehicle crime and antisocial behaviour'.


"If a "yob" is someone alienated from the rest of our society, loyal only to his own kind, who seeks thrills and violence often for fun and who does not care about his community, who can be recognised for what he is by his clothing, well then it seems to me that this is equally a description of the police themselves."

Ah - this sort of juvenile anti-police rant makes me propose the question - are you bonkers?


Re: Police will harass yobs (#2)

by BritishAsian on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:49:37 PM GMT

the police claim that these tactics have resulted in a sharp decrease in burglaries, criminal damage, and car crime on the estate they targetted.

I am sure they claim such, but can they prove it? Moreover, we saw with the "ring of plastic" around the City of London a few years ago, that reduced petty crime too, but was that the cost effective way of doing it? To monitor every individual who comes in and goes out? 

'a hard core of offenders who persist with yobbish behaviour on estates'...people who have built up criminal records for 'burglary, intimidation, criminal damage, vehicle crime and antisocial behaviour'.

And these people cannot rehabilitate themselves? If they are criminals they should be in prison, and if they have done their prison time, then what? The police say they are still criminals and that is that? Is it not obvious that such people have been conditioned by brutal treatment and that to treat them brutally further is to entrench this.

Ah - this sort of juvenile anti-police rant makes me propose the question - are you bonkers?

I think my friend that a member of an ethnic minority's experience of policing is probably quite different to yours.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#3)

by Googler on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:09:15 PM GMT

Is it also the wrong approach to harass youngsters? Wouldn't a more constrcutive use of political capital (and money) be to implement some kind of strategy whereby these 'feral youths' have things to do? Too often these days our kids are portrayed as things we should fear and these only leads to further alienation. I think more of an effort needs to be made to understand, not wanting to sound too much like a hippy.

G 


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#4)

by BritishAsian on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:47:22 PM GMT

Exactly, treat people like criminals and they will act like criminals. At what point does someone who is trying to straighten out get left alone to do just that? Are the police going to liaise with social workers and probation officers so they don't harass those trying to reform - or are they just going to harass anyone whose face they don't like, the "usual suspects"?

I do not think we should be stereotyping people as criminals just because of their background.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#5)

by Just Labour on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:03:01 PM GMT

As our new mayor might say, Crikey! Is this for real?

They are being stereotyped as criminals because they are known to the police as criminals. Anti social behaviour and mindless yobbery are the bane of many many people's lives. If some of the labour voters who put us in power - in town halls up and down the country - saw this nonsense they would wonder how further out of touch we could get.

Why is the default position for some on the left still one that panders to a misplaced need to understand the "disadvantages faced in their lives" by some of these yobs whilst the rest of the world shakes its head in disbelief when it reads about this sort of incident:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7176471.stm

Comrade, you need to spend a little less time in Compass seminars and a bit more time talking to our core voters to understand how out of touch this outlook is.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#8)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:49:45 PM GMT

What are you talking about? There is no stereotyping here. Have you read the article that you yourself posted? The police would be deliberately targetting repeat offenders to simply ensure that they are abiding by the law, maintaining their ASBOs and rehabilitation programmes etc. This would be treating people like criminals if they have acted like criminals, and the entire point of it is to stop them being criminals!

It is all quite straightforward and sensible IMO.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#7)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:45:54 PM GMT

"I am sure they claim such, but can they prove it?"

Well, just a guess here but I would think the police can prove the success of this strategy through the decreasing local crime stats of the estate it was implemented on. If you think the cops are lying about this I'm sure it would be pretty straightforward to expose them.


"And these people cannot rehabilitate themselves? If they are criminals they should be in prison, and if they have done their prison time, then what? The police say they are still criminals and that is that? Is it not obvious that such people have been conditioned by brutal treatment and that to treat them brutally further is to entrench this."
 
Well you're arguing with someone who is strongly in favour of raising taxes in order to invest more heavily in improving prisons and rehabilitation services. Unfortunately politicians do not think the voters have time for these sorts of suggestions.

I'm an advocate of 'tough love' and support many of the Labour government's initiatives in this area. For example, the introduction of Drug Treatment and Testing Orders and ASBOs. I see these as trying to help people rehabilitate themselves by treating drug addictions and trying to initially keep them out of the prison system.

 
However, if people are still breaking treatment orders/ASBOs/court orders, the police should have the powers to intervene. Otherwise these people are making a mockery of the entire justice system and will continue making their neighbours' lives miserable.

 
As I say, I am fully in favour of rehabilitation, therapy for prisoners, increased spending on education for prisoners etc. However, the idea that people's criminal behaviour can always be excused as a result of their 'social conditioning' should be condemned. I don't see why the police ensuring that they do not break court orders and revert to a life of crime is treating them "brutally"? It is also vital that the law is seen to prioritise the rights of their law-abiding victims and neighbours.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#9)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:55:50 PM GMT

"I think my friend that a member of an ethnic minority's experience of policing is probably quite different to yours."

I've never heard friends of mine from ethnic minorities reporting trouble with the police. Whilst I'm sure this is a generational thing, I still think it is stupid to try to stereotype police officers as racist bullies. These lazy stereotypes don't get us anywhere.


Maintaining an effective police force is essential for a peaceful and democratic society. Police officers carry out a difficult and dangerous job and deserve our support.



[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#13)

by TonyHannon on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:03:39 AM GMT

"I think my friend that a member of an ethnic minority's experience of policing is probably quite different to yours."

I've scarcely ever read such a conceited statement.

There was a trial of this approach, it worked - they're rolling it out. Good.


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs etc (#6)

by Anonymous X on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:39:50 PM GMT

I fully agree with you, BA. Quite frankly I'd prefer it if police harassed youngsters less; that'd honestly make me feel safer on the streets.


Re: Police will harass yobs etc (#10)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:57:00 PM GMT

When was the last time you saw police officers harassing innocent youngsters?


[ Parent ]

Re: Police will harass yobs (#11)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:15:31 PM GMT

Quite why the government thinks that 'harassing' is something to boast about is beyond me. A silly move.


Re: Police will harass yobs in new pl (#12)

by LabourOutlook on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:51:43 PM GMT

There's an interview with the police who actually used this method on Radio 4's 'Listen Again' that puts a lot of this in perspective.

Definitely worth a listen - not sure how much longer it'll be up for.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/news.shtml?radio4/pm

You'll need to fast forward to 33m 30sec


Re: Police will harass yobs (#14)

by jkitleft on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:19:31 PM GMT

It's not an actual policy.

But while I maintain that it is a stupid move, I certainly feel more threatended by yobs, than by 'bin criminals' and those who abuse parking spaces. Take the case of a father-of-four who now has a criminal record after getting a fine over £200, for leaving a wheelie bin ajar by four inches. That is not the sort of 'crime' that I feel threatened by.

And you have contadicted yourself, by saying that yobs are violent 'often for fun', and then saying that next we'll be attacking those who don't vote the right way.

So while it an unprudent measure, I think you are highly exaggerating why this would be detrimental to the public.


Police will harass yobs in new plan to tackle antisocial behaviour | 14 comments (14 topical)