2008 May Manifesto Petition

doctordunc Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:28:50 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

John McDonnell has put forward a 'May Manifesto' petition.



In the light of Labour's election defeat last week, John McDonnell MP is circulating a manifesto petition to Labour Party members, trade unons and MPs to gain large scale rank and file support for a new policy programme for Labour to bring about a radical change in political direction for the Laboour Government.

John McDonnell MP said:

"After the serious rejection of New Labour at the polls last week assurances that the Government is listening are simply not going to be enough to restore any sense of belief in the Labour Party. What is needed is a radical change of political direction.

"We have to demonstrate that change by introducing a new policy programme that specifically and very concretely addresses peoples' concerns raised on the doorstep. This May manifesto petition is launched so that all our supporters can have a say in pressing for the changes we need."

We believe that Labour can win back the support of our people by adopting a new 2008 May Manifesto, which should include:

  • Nailing the 10p tax mistake by the introduction of a fair tax system removing the low paid from taxation and ensuring the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share
  • An increase in the basic state pension, immediately restoring the link with earnings, lifting people off means tested benefits and providing free care for the elderly
  • An immediate start on a large scale council house building programme and assistance for those facing repossession
  • Immediate end to programme of local Post Office closures and liberalisation of postal services
  • An end to the privatisation of our public services
  • A new pay deal for public sector workers to protect their living standards and tackle low pay
  • Abolishing tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants for all students
  • Scrapping ID cards and abandoning 42 days detention
  • Introduction of a trade union freedom bill and measures to protect temporary and agency workers
  • Rejecting the proposals to renew Trident
To sign email the LRC, put 'petition' in the subject header and give your name and CLP/Union, etc.



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2008 May Manifesto Petition | 24 comments (24 topical)

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#1)

by Wiseman on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:25:22 PM GMT

sounds good to me

John


Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#2)

by Louise Flint on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:12 PM GMT

doctordunc? Are you sure Doctor Dave wouldn't be a better name, seeing as how he would be the happiest person in the world if ever implement a barmy manifesto like this. He would win with a majority of 200. When will you dinosaur lefties realise that the British public are not left wing? You might be - more power to you, but the British public have rejected Labour at EVERY SINGLE ELECTION it stood on a left wing platform. Comprende? We must rebuild the broad coalition that bought us to power rather than peddling this pedantic, centralising, divisive and patronising old Labour nonsense that says "I know what's best for the poor man, so I will pretend to be on his side only". The world has changed a lot since 1983. Why haven't you?


Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#3)

by doctordunc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:29:02 PM GMT

Rather than being rude and a bit silly, would you like to explain which policies you disagree with and why?


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#4)

by doctordunc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:30:30 PM GMT

Oh and, even better, if there are any policies on the list that you agree with?  After all, most of it's Labour policy.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#6)

by Free Radical on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:17:41 PM GMT

Louise

It seems remarkably uncontensious to me. Which policies do you disagree with, and why?


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#7)

by Free Radical on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:26 PM GMT

I mean uncontentious of course...


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#8)

by grimupnorth on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:49 PM GMT

The world has changed since 1997. John McDonnell's policies  would  steer us away from the car crash that's New Labour. I have a  blog and a moderate former Party  member e-mailed me tonight to say he would agree  with ALL these policies.It's New Labour that is out of touch and WE  are not the dinosaurs now, You are..........


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#14)

by fluffymike on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:40:45 AM GMT

I can hardly beleive this is the program of a person who is slagged off as hard left by some idiots here!

These are all incredibly modest proposals that would carry the overwhelming support of the country. Even a lot of tory voters want to see public services run for service and not profit! These policies are merely restoring some of the lesser excesses taken away by the Thatcher / Tebbit years.

It is fascinating how some people start screaming loony left and backwards ideas whenever John is mentioned - have they truly no concept of what has actually happened in British politics over the years?

To portray common sense as 'hard-left' lunacy says a lot!


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#5)

by otware on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:15 PM GMT

I'd vote for that.


Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#9)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:44 AM GMT

I think Louise Flint does generally sum up the feelings of the rational minority on this site. But anyway, since people have asked what's wrong with these policies, I'll go through them one by one:

Nailing the 10p tax mistake by the introduction of a fair tax system removing the low paid from taxation and ensuring the wealthiest and corporations pay their fair share  Now, the devil is in the detail with this one. It sounds fine written like this, but just how much extra tax is McDonnell proposing to put on the rich?

An increase in the basic state pension, immediately restoring the link with earnings, lifting people off means tested benefits and providing free care for the elderly. Dare I ask where the money will come from for all of this, or would that be asking too much? I presume McDonnell has performed a full cost-benefit analysis? The govt has already promised to restore the link between earnings and pensions in due course anyway.

An immediate start on a large scale council house building programme and assistance for those facing repossession. Why the obsession with council housing - why not social housing in general? Will McDonnell allow these people the opportunity to then buy these council homes off the state in the future?

Immediate end to programme of local Post Office closures and liberalisation of postal services I agree with stopping the closures as they are public services, but there's no reason why it needs to be in the state's hands. The postal service still needs to be modernised.

An end to the privatisation of our public services Putting services in private hands is not the problem, it's underfunding and poor regulation.

A new pay deal for public sector workers to protect their living standards and tackle low pay Where's the money coming from?

Abolishing tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants for all students Sounds fine, but where's the money coming from?

Scrapping ID cards and abandoning 42 days detention Yes with scrapping 42 days. I agree with ID cards to be honest, but recognise it will never happen.

Introduction of a trade union freedom bill and measures to protect temporary and agency workers Repealing the reforms of the 1980's is political suicide, but I'm sure some indivudual measures are worthwhile.

Rejecting the proposals to renew Trident No, unless all other nuclear weapon-owning countries do likewise.

All in all, some good stuff - some bad, but no realistic estimate of what all this would cost (and no, scrapping Trident and ID cards would not cover it all). It's all back of an envelope stuff - as I said, the devil is in the detail. McDonnell needs to be realistic with what can be achieved.


Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#11)

by otware on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:30:47 AM GMT

OK well I don't think he seriously believes that all of these policies can be achieved, at least not in the short term. The point he is trying to stress is that these are the issues facing the country at the moment, and that this is what he proposes should be done about them.

Funny you should say that post office privatisation is a good thing - the latest report says it is only good for large corporations, not for small firms and individuals. But then I suppose no matter how many facts there are stacked up against you, you will always support privatisation for ideological reasons. Totally shocking. 


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#12)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:45:40 AM GMT

Faux outrage means nothing.

There have been reports for and against the privatisation of the post office.

The way I see it, they should be run like the bus services. In private hands, but the government should regulate it as a public service and subsidise it. This would mean keeping open smaller post offices even if they make a loss. There's no problem with that and it's certainly better than the current situation.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#21)

by otware on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:08:15 PM GMT

Well yes that would be better than the current system. But explain to me why marketisation in public services is a good thing.

I'm not going to advocate nationalising everything that moves, it's lunacy. But how can privatising a service be good if it does not provide consumer choice and other benefits? Try to see it from the point of view of an ordinary person:

Why should the post office by privatised, with companies harvesting profits off of it and cutting cornerns when their hard-earned taxes are being used to fund it. If they had choice (different post boxes, stamps, prices etc.) then at least there is some sort of purpose (albeit a terribly bad one). As it is people are expected to prop up privatised services with NO benefits to them whatsoever. Look at the railways, look at the water.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#15)

by doctordunc on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:50:15 AM GMT

Actually, much as you'd prefer this all to be 'back of an envelope' wishlist stuff - most or all of this has been fully costed by the Left Economic Advisory Panel over several budgets.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#16)

by e10rifles on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:45 AM GMT

"I think Louise Flint does generally sum up the feelings of the rational minority on this site"

Teehee.

Aside from being a swivel-eyed right-wing lunatic, she is also ignorant of political history prior to the 1980s (with which all rightwingers are obsessed).

Get over it. New Labour is a busted flush. The party's over.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#17)

by BritishAsian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:52:14 PM GMT

Northern Monkey


Good points well made.


The issue with this programme is that it is uncosted and cannot be afforded without further tax rises. People are already protesting about existing tax levels and the value for money we get from them. McDonnell must show how he would deal with that challenge, and also how he can maintain Labour's best attack on Cameron (which is around uncosted Tory pledges) while making so many of his own.

Some of these items do not even look like especially noble causes. You cannot tell me that public sector workers' welfare is at the forefront of the concerns of anybody apart from those workers themselves. Public sector workers earn more than private sector and also still have final salary pensions, and McDonnell wants to raise taxes to do even more for them?? Come on. This is not being realistic.   


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#18)

by e10rifles on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:12:24 PM GMT

"sector workers earn more than private sector "

Untrue.

"and also still have final salary pensions"

If private sector workers no longer have final salary pensions, that is the fault of the private sector. It does not mean that public sector workers should lose theirs.

Inflation is over 4%. Public sector pay rises are being held down to 2% (unlike private sector pay rises) by Gordon Brown. This is bullshit.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#22)

by BritishAsian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:15:14 PM GMT

I do not think this is wromng my friend.

http://www.onrec.com/newsstories/8352.asp - in 2005 public sector pay was 17% higher than private.

As for pensions, private companies invest their funds in the stock market which is not doing well and these expenditures now attract more tax. I am not sure what they should be doing more?


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#23)

by e10rifles on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:43:45 AM GMT

Yes, HOURLY pay. Try comparing net pay. Just because public sector workers normally work civilised hours doesn't mean they are paid more.

Private companies could start by spending less on shareholders' dividends and salaries for the top managers and more on the pension schemes. As long as profits are being made, there is money available to improve the pension scheme.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#10)

by Anonymous X on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:02:34 AM GMT

Yes, I agree that some of McDonnell's policy requests are realistically too Left to be considered centrist in 2008 Britain. Doesn't mean we should shirk any and every form of radicalism though. Oh, on the issue of "where does the money come from", let's be honest, if we fell for that argument back in the day, we would never have had a welfare state, NHS, public services, etc.


Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#13)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:47:11 AM GMT

Nobody did fall for it - taxes were raised to pay for the welfare state (and rightly so). But do you think people would accept big tax rises again now?


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#19)

by HenryG on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:32:31 PM GMT

I work in the private sector and most of my colleagues think the public sector has it easy and is full of waste. I think we should be looking at the conditions, rights and pensions of all working people.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#20)

by e10rifles on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:38:33 PM GMT

"most of my colleagues think the public sector has it easy and is full of waste"

Then they should be put right, not encouraged in that view.

Obviously I agree with the second sentence, which is why I support the repeal of the anti-union laws which harm all working people and the raising of the minimum wage for all ages.


[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 May Manifesto Petition (#24)

by jkitleft on Sun May 11, 2008 at 12:01:16 PM GMT

Many of these measures are not 'loony-left', and some could be a good way of getting votes:

1) The biggest issue in the local elections was the 10p tax rate, and the middle-classes are getting steadily angrier over the lack of taxation on the super-rich. If we could make the tax system fairer, more progressive, and far less complicated, then it would be popular.


2) People in England are angrier about the gap between care of pensioners in England compared to the more progressive policies in Scotland. 400,000 potential votes by making care for the elderly a priority. The government says they plan to restore the link between pensions and earnings. I can't see why getting people off benefits would be considered 'loony-left' either.


3) We could break the BNP, by confronting fears about housing, and people know how I think the 'right-to-buy' policy could be reformed.

4) People are angry about the Post Office closures. I am more worried about the closures than the liberalisation. But we're not losing £4 million a week. It costs £4 million a week.


5) People are more progressive than the government think. I don't think that we would crash and burn, if we re-nationalised the probation services, or introduced co-operatives, yet still maintaining that the state monopolies are not in place, into the utilities or railways, or telecommunications, and other transport services etc.


6) Raising Public sector pay is not an election loser. It wasn't that the Teachers hadn't been given a 19% raise in the last 10 years (still technically below inflation), it was that, as C.J Cregg puts it in a West Wing episode, it made the Prime Minister look like "he didn't know what the price of milk was". The raise demanded was nowhere near the rate of inflation on people's food and energy bills.


7) This could get many young voters switching back to Labour, although I'm not sure whether I'm against top-up fees or not.


8) Scrapping ID cards and 42 day detention, would be popular, and IMO the right thing to do.


9) A worker's rights bill would be more appropriate, but a Workplace Democracy act could allow workers to fight for their rights and wages. I don't agree with repealing Thatcher's legislation on trade unions. But the most progressive act would be to legislate for a Mitbestimmungshrect model in workplaces.

10) As for Trident, it is no longer the Cold War. As for people who say, 'Not until other countries disarm first', that argument is a double-edged sword. Either we disarm, and people say that others haven't, or those against getting rid of nuclear weapons in other countries who disarm make the exact same argument. We need a multilateralist approach. I'm basing my support for Obama, on his views on non-proliferation. John Kerry estimated that it would cost £8 billion to store all of the worlds uranium and plutonium away. A conservative estimate suggests that replenishing Trident costs £20 billion: the real figure could be closer to £76 billion. Also, 54% of the public are against renewing Trident, and we could still go for 'the Japanese option', of keeping a virtual nuclear programme, in case the world's security situation heats up.

Some of these demands are not unreasonable. Many are popular, many could be made more progressive.


Progressive politics can be popular electorally. On the non-political argument, they are also the right thing to do.


2008 May Manifesto Petition | 24 comments (24 topical)