We need Brown to change direction!!

Wiseman Sat May 03, 2008 at 07:49:37 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

1) We need to win the next election!!
2) We need to think of our core vote!!
3) We need less privatisation !!
4) We need to raise the minimum wage!!
5) We need to stop hitting the poor with tax changes!!
6) We need the temporary workers bill!!
7) We need to withdraw from Iraq!!
8) We need more equality!!
9) We should admit shame on remploy!!
10) We need to be the Labour party!!

John Wiseman
PPC Westmorland and Lonsdale





tags: (all tags)

Display: Sort:
We need Brown to change direction!! | 27 comments (27 topical)

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#1)

by HenryG on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:38:16 PM GMT

We need to use less exclamation marks.


Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#2)

by Tankist on Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:57:53 PM GMT

We need fewer people who think slogans are the same as election winning policies.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#3)

by jljb2 on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:16:17 PM GMT

We need fewer people with your views...


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#4)

by otware on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:10:31 AM GMT

Funny, those are policies. What are your bloody policies? You don't have any, just more of the same vague quasi-Tory nonsense.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#5)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:37:07 AM GMT

Erm... can we stop throwing insults at those who don't agree with us please?

Every second comment on here usually takes some swipe at 'New Labour' so people on the right are allowed to throw some criticism back. It's part of debate.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#6)

by jljb2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:29:22 AM GMT

No, I'm sorry - you people have hijacked our party, and squandered an opportunity to change this country for the better - to give people the lives they deserve - and you expect us to be polite? You've had 14 years of putting your arguments, and of ignoring those who said New Labour was failing its supporters: you've failed our people, and you've almost destroyed the party - now it's our turn. Do you know how demoralising it is to be a member of a party when you disagree with almost all its policies? That's how most of us have felt for years - is it really surprising that people are angry? The time for debate is over: your 'project' has failed, and people are suffering for it - there's no more argument to be had.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#7)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:31:46 AM GMT

Ah, now we're getting to the crux of the argument.

Sorry, but we're here to stay.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#8)

by jljb2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:39:45 AM GMT

Well, I'm sure the millions living in poverty will thank you for that. But hey, at least some more people will be able to buy a second home and a few more cars - so it'll all be worth it.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#9)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:30:12 AM GMT

Yes, because only the far left care about poverty...


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#10)

by swatantra on Sun May 04, 2008 at 10:33:27 AM GMT

They may care about poverty but are they in a position to ever do anything about it? If we turn completely to the far left, we'll be put it permanent opposition. The more sensible aproach is to win back those 'middle class' that deserted us and put forward progressive policies. Besides being alistening Party we also need to take some action... and pretty quick too.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#13)

by jljb2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:20:46 PM GMT

The point is that we don't have to choose between the progressivism and popularity: the extent of inequality now means that there is much common ground between the poor and those in the middle, and in any case, there are many things we could do which both middle class and core voters would agree with. Of course I want as many people as possible supporting Labour. But our first priority must always be our core voters - they can no longer be an afterthought once the swing voters are appeased! I actually think people, whatever their background, respect a party that stands for the vulnerable, and which stands by its principles.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#11)

by Wiseman on Sun May 04, 2008 at 11:10:25 AM GMT

It is a fact that we should all work together, without personalities.  The fact is that move further to the left will help the party.

Wiseman


Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#12)

by SamRussell on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:04:58 PM GMT

So what you are saying is, in effect, that to renew the party, we need to shift left and appeal to the core vote?

 

With respect, that is the same misguided rubbish that the Tories sought solace in for the best part of 10 years - it is only now that they realise that you get nowhere by appealing only to the interests of the core vote.

 

If we lose the next General Election, I for one will not be spending 10 years "appealing to the core vote" before we finally get our act together.

This Government has achieved a huge amount over the past 11 years - we need to get our message across better, and have a real discussion about policy going forward. But pushing for a return to a 1980s Labour Party will only bring about 1980s election results.
 


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#14)

by jljb2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:31:41 PM GMT

What a depressing and hopeless vision for the future...You've got to realise there is huge potential for a broad and winning coalition for social democracy - particularly with AV and compulsory voting. New Labour was never neccessary. The 'return to the 80s' straw man is really starting to sound tired: no-one is calling for the nationalisation of Tesco's - can you really not see any middle ground between Blairism and Militant? What's your vision for our future Sam - 'a little bit of redistribution, but not so much that the rich don't like it'? - no wonder we're losing members hand over foot. And as for 1980s election results, you do know that in 2005 we only got a million more votes than in 1983? Largely because our core voters simply did not turn out. We now control only 2 Welsh councils - why? Too little New Labour? Too much focus on the core vote?


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#20)

by oratorhunt on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:36:31 PM GMT

"we need to get our message across better" - John Major thought this c.1996.  We need to understand that a wide spectrum of the electorate now thinks we are not on their side, and we don't stand for anything other than trying to keep things ticking along between difficulties (some of our own making).

We do need to refocus our appeal to the core vote.  But this doesn't mean ONLY to the core vote.  We need to rebuild a broad coalition around policies which shows that we are for the majority of people who depend on the state for their health, education, pensions, rights at work etc.  We are not in government to let the rich accumulate obscene wealth whilst the poor struggle!  We should not be giving real terms pay cuts to public sector workers.

Remember - in the run up to 97 we fought the CBI's claim that a minimum wage would cripple the economy, we attacked chief execs pay, etc.  This didn't prevent the building of a broad coalition.  It enabled it!


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#21)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:26:20 PM GMT

Sorry John, but moving to the left will alienate more people.

We tried it in the 1980's - didn't work. The Tories tried it from 1997-2005 in the opposite direction - didn't work. When will we learn?

More progressive government, yes. Abandoning Blairism and New Labour, no.

We need the core vote and centre-leftists.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#24)

by otware on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:42:54 PM GMT

But New Labour has abandoned the core vote and the centre-left.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#25)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 09:35:01 PM GMT

And I've said that New Labour needs to be more progressive in certain areas.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#26)

by jljb2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:23:18 AM GMT

Personally, if getting in with policies to increase economic and social equality required us to be anti-immigration and anti civil-liberties, I'd be willing: but I don't think that's necessary.


[ Parent ]

Re: We we need Brown to change direction!! (#27)

by jljb2 on Mon May 05, 2008 at 12:23:57 AM GMT

OK, not anti civil-liberties, but you know what I mean...


[ Parent ]

Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#15)

by treborc on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:03:53 PM GMT

We need camps to get rid of the disabled perhaps work camps, because this is all down to the disabled the sick, they have stopped Labour from being in power for a 1000 years bastards.

We actually need to get back to those bloody hard left policies, like Social housing, the NHS and real wages not cuts, and the Welfare state, and if Labour thinks we have lots of frauds then go get them, but to protect those that need protecting.

What polices social policies.


Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#16)

by jkitleft on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:55:49 PM GMT

The problem with New Labour, was not that it was moderate. John Smith was on the Labour right, but most admired by the left. But you cannot define New Labour's ideology.


Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#17)

by otware on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:05:49 PM GMT

New Labour has no ideology. It's a total vacuum. It's totally dead in the water now. What we need is a strong fightback from the left and the cetre-left to expose the flaws of Brown and New Labour, to bring about genuine debate over policy to reintroduce the broad church.


[ Parent ]

Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#18)

by Group51 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM GMT

"expose the flaws of Brown and New Labour"

You sound like the Tories, lets not do their job for them, please.  We need to provide a positive set of policies worth voting for, people like Brown need to stop patronising voters.  I thought his interview with Marr today was terrible.  Marr explained what voters were saying and Brown refuted it.  That was very poor politics. :-(


[ Parent ]

Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#22)

by grimupnorth on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:32:06 PM GMT

what do you  expect - the man is a  disaster. He's not going to listen, he's not going to change. So he  has to go. End  of.  Let's  fight to get  Labour back  and get left  policies  on the agenda. If New Labour don't  like it they   can join the Tories as  that's where they belong anyway.


[ Parent ]

Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#23)

by NorthernMonkey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 04:42:36 PM GMT

Nice spirit of unity. I'm sure that attitude will win McDonnell plenty of votes whenever the election is.


[ Parent ]

Re: We need Brown to change direction!! (#19)

by Mark Wadsworth on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:22:10 PM GMT

Most people who voted here seem to agree with you

http://poll.pollcode.com/4t2


We need Brown to change direction!! | 27 comments (27 topical)