Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour.

 There are millions Labour Supporters not voting at all and not voting fore The party becaurse they have been left out of thier reward for alife times work.

Look at the millions of woman 6o to  64 no pension             Look at the millions of single men with out tax credits            they need a rate of pay of £9.25 to compeate in the labour market with family earners. is that fair.                        Look at the millions over 50s who work less hours becaurse they are burned out from years of low payed long working hours. Then if they managed to be carefull and save some money, govenment means test what little they have.                                                                                 what about giveing the British Worker a higher tax code to make a leval playing field with people who send monney home to countrys where cost of living is much lower.


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Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#1)

There is also the effect of immigrant workers on the labour market.

Just watch ITV's tonight programme to see that.

Frank Field for all his other faults actually gets it. 

 

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#2)

This is a red herring.  If you secure decent wages (raise the minimum wage), secure Trade Union rights, the rights of temporary and agency workers and properly prosecute bad employers who break the law, then you liberate ALL the 'powerless low paid'.  Don't be swayed by scapegoats.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#3)

Hear, hear.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#4)

they need a rate of pay of £9.25 to compeate in the labour market with family earners. is that fair.  

In a word, yes it bloody well is. Raising children is both difficult and expensive. Life with a family is far harder than life as a singleton.

If you want a perfect system move to a paralell universe, if you want to blame Labour then you are a fool.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#9)

I fully agree with the sentiment of increasing NMW significantly - but there is a practical difficulty. We already have one of the highest NMW in the EU - according to this EuroStat release only Ireland and Luxembourg have higher NMW. If we alone increase NMW further we will get more EU immigration attracted by the better paid unskilled jobs, which will add to a significant current difficulty. We need a pan-EU effort to increase NMW, but I suspect that is difficult.

We're caught in a bit of a globalisation trap - can't easily increase NMW because of immigration issues, can't put up corporate taxation because of the corporate emigration risk, can't tax high net-worth individuals because they will ship out, can't tax aviation fuel because of a 1950s international treaty, ...  Whither socialism?

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#10)

We can raise NMW regardless of whether it causes immigration issues (I doubt it would).

We can put up corporate taxation. The threat of it is largely overstated and often be dealt with.

We can tax high net-worth individuals because they generally don't ship out (and good riddance to those who do).

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#5)

You have a choice to have children, nobody forced us to have kids, the fact is the working class are being kept working class by wages which are way to low, immigration is used to ensure it stays low. The Min wage should be about £7.80, but the working tax credits must be targeted to the poor not those on £50,000 a year.

and who else do you blame but Labour for a min wage way to low.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#11)

> the working tax credits must be targeted to the poor not those on £50,000 a year.

For a 2+2 family tax credits are £119.54/week for a 38-hour NMW family, and for a £27k/year family £10.43/week (2007/8 numbers). Don't you call that targeted?

I know that administrative hassles gave Tax Credits a poor name, but as 30% of families earn under £15,525 - a level where they are large tax credit winners - I supect a properly presented strong Tax Credits message could bolster our core vote. It seems a policy that the Tories are likely to decimate if not destroy.

A 2+2 family earning £15,525/year (£300/week) get £86.24/week Tax Credits but only pay £60.75/week tax+NI. They are winners from Tax Credits - even zero tax+NI would not compensate - and if it was brought home to these 30% of families how much the Tories could hit them by destroying Tax Credits, surely that is a worthwhile campaign.

(Figures from Table 1.6b of DWP Tax benefit model tables: April 2007 - Child Tax Credits are much more generous in 2008, but DWP have yet to issue new tables.)

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#12)

The fact that tax credits can be claimed even by quite high earners is to deall with what's called marginal taxation. The idea that if your income goes by by a certain amount, you'll only get a fraction of that amount due to withdrawl of benefits.

In order to minimize the level of marginal taxation benefits levels are dropped gradually as income increases although this does mean that the point where they drop to zero is at quite a high income.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#6)

Whilst I uderstand the sentiments of all those who have posted a reply to the original staement, you have to agree that people are leaving labour in their droves as there is little or no confidence in the current government.
Rising fuel and food costs, the highest levels of taxation ever both directly and indirectly (stealth taxes do exsist you can't deny it) and a government that seems unpreturbed and indeed disconnected from the people who placed them in power.

Example 1
60% duty on fuel
Yes you can argue that the fuel escalator was a Tory idea, but we have jumped on the band wagon to make our fuel the most expensive in the world. This in turn pushes up the costs of consumer goods and food. It's not like the duty raised is spent on our road and transport infastructure as it's more expensive to take the train from Bournemouth to London than to drive, pay congestion charges and park for the day !

Example 2
Trust Issues
We then mess up with the 10p tax issues and take over a week to hold our hands up..... not to mention the in-house squabbling and the consistent mistakes by government agencies.

Labour used to be a party of the people, for the people we have lost that focus, they no longer trust us, that is why the working class are leaving Labour.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#7)

Proof that the Tory underhand sock puppetry movement is alive and well if ever I saw it.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#8)

Not tory at all just the truth, you can hide your head in the sand if you wish, but some of us who are true to Labour and respect what it used to stand for want to win the next election and to do this we need to address the issues that affect the people who elected us.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#13)

If you are not a Tory then I need convincing, I've not seen your screen name before. You also seem to be playing fast and loose with negative propaganda, I'd expect a genuine Labour activist to at least check whether the accusations being levelled at us are true.

The fuel duty accelerator continued through until the 2000 fuel protests after which it was dropped. Since then the government has done very little to increase taxation on fuel.

You also talk about stealth taxes as if Labour invented them, that sounds like a Tory attack line to me. Mrs Thatcher (most overrated prime minister ever) for example was very much a fan of stealth taxation.

I see vastly improved public services a stable economy, low unemployment and 700,000 children lifted out of poverty. And that's why I remain proud of the Labour government. If you really believe in what labour stands for, I think you'd see that too.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#14)

Citizen Andreas I have just lost Macclesfield Town ward seat on May 1st after campaigning every night for three weeks.  Now i have a few and I think justified suggestions on how Gordon Brown and our beloved Labour Party could improve before the next Election.  I hope that if I air them on this site someone like you isn't going to label me a "Tory" as well.   Airing opinions and reflection is how we progress so just take it easy

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#16)

I don't exactly wake up and salute a picture of Gordon myself. And I certainly don't take any dissent as a sign of being a Tory, however there do seem to be a number of Tories commenting this site and this person's comment had a fair few Tory hallmarks.

Rising fuel and food costs, the highest levels of taxation ever both directly and indirectly (stealth taxes do exsist you can't deny it) and a government that seems unpreturbed and indeed disconnected from the people who placed them in power.

This comment looks to place the blame on the government for problems caused by external factors (fuel & food prices), it throws about unsubstantiated accusations high taxation and stealth taxes at a time when David Cameron is trying to attack us on those issues. I don't think a Labour activist would write something like that.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#21)

A work colleague of mine, who has voted Labour all her life and said "Her hand would drop off before she voted Tory" said very clearly to me, the Tory voter, that "The party in power at the moment isn't Labour. It's not my Labour."

I think that really does speak for itself. The party had a decent message back in 1997, but then didn't adapt as the world shifted around them and became more refined and sped up. 11 years of passed and, the party hasn't moved quickly with it. 

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#15)

The middle-classes are now muttering, "What has Labour done for me?". Well, admittedly, not much. Do I care? Again, not really. The middle-classes are generally better off, but taxes must be distributed from the very top to the bottom, rather than from the middle.

The problem is for many, that Labour has redistributed by stealth. So their measures are targeted at the single, working mum. SureStart, WFTC, NMW etc. It would be fairer to redistribute to the whole poor, but the role of a family is the key difference between Labour and the Tories. While it may sound like only one difference, that connotes 'moral' issues, like Abortion, Gay rights etc. it actually connotes a whole multitude of differences, especially with taxation. This is not to say that Labour shouldn't be more progressive.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#17)

The working class are leaving Labour as most working class people have aspiration for themselves or their children, modern welfare systems have developed an underclass who depend entirely on benefits and have no aspiration or intention to work in the 80's the working class flocked to the tories as they represented their aspirations of home ownership and a chance of holding stock in companies and having a better lifestyle.

With the 10p tax debacle, fiddled inflation figures, theb working class want someone who will represent them and their aspirations when their kids are in schools where english is a second language and they are out of work as exploitative bosses use immigrant labour then I'm afraid its the tories or the BNP

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#19)

More rightwing trolls spouting nonsense.

Bin please.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#18)

The "toff " campaign in C&N could be directed at the Labour candidate...

http://www.burkes-peerage.net/familyhomepage.aspx?FID=0&FN=DUNWOODY-KNEAFSEY(MOYRA)TAMSIN

As anyone with half a brain can see, it's another own goal.

Perhaps  if Labour strategists thought for 5 minutes..?

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#20)

So you can read Guido, have a cookie.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#22)

If there is such a thing as 'working-class' anymore, then yes they are indeed leaving Labour. However, I think this is as much about image and identity as it is about policy.

For sure there are any number of things the govt could do to make life better for the low-paid, starting with housing. But as disillusioned with Labour as I am, the one thing I do credit them with is substantially redistributing wealth. There was no minimum wage in 1997, plenty of jobs less than £2 per hour. The Tories won't repeal it now, but it will rise at a slower rate once they're in power. Tax credits represent huge redistribution, for a similar cost to the Tories previous giveaway to mortgage holders.

Labour never make much of these policies - pathetically scared of upsetting the middle-classes, so now as the economy turns huge swathes of British people have no idea of the difference between Labour and Tories. Of course they may later realise that their tax credits have been abolished, their child benefit levels stalled, their Sure Start centres and after-school clubs closed. Unless someone from the 'left' actually emphasises these things though, few will notice and such cuts will just be put down to the evil political class rather than ideology.

There is a wider cultural disconnect. For want of a better word much of the traditional 'white-working class' feels no affiliation to liberal social policies, and can't relate to the language and personas of the political and media classes. Race and political correctness are major bones of contention.

But we shouldn't be appeasing these arguments, we should be defeating them. Many of the so-called forgotten working-class are now homeowners, skilled workers on good wages. They will earn more than supposedly 'elitist' university lecturers. Drivers moan about the congestion charge hurting the poor, without recognising that the genuinely poor don't have cars. The 'upper working-class' do very nicely out of the welfare state, free education etc, and will do a whole lot worse under the Tories. If they are so begrudging of redistribution to people less fortunate than themselves, then perhaps they need a Tory govt again to remember the facts of political life.

The task for Labour, the party of social justice if nothing else, remains the same as it always has. To represent the interests of those who lack the economic and political power to represent themselves affectively - the poor, vulnerable and low-paid, irrespective of their race or background.

Re: Why The Working Class Are Leaving Labour. (#23)

I turned my back on the Labour Party in 1997, having canvassed to get them elected. I'd been a party member for about 12 years. The crunch came when Gordon Brown made a speech saying that local authority workers would have to accept inflation or less than inflation wage rises for the foreseeable future. This was said after MP's awarding themselves a 26% increase in their wages. After 11 years of Labour, I've received my inflation wage rises and I've watched as my pay has decreased and I am slowly moving backwards to reach the minimum wage. I've watched the gap between rich and poor get even wider. Things can only get better, well Mr Brown I'm still waiting! During the Tory years I remember things like the imcome tax allowances changing during the budget. That used to help a bit, and believe it or not during the 18 years the tories were holding local authority workers to inflation wage rises, in 1988 or there abouts we got a wage correction of more than inflation. Don't get me wrong Labour have done this too, but only the MP's got the rise.
I could be tempted back to Labour but they will have to take a reality check. Low wages and high taxes don't mix. Could I remind New Labour, when you lose your core support it is very difficult to get them back. The Tories are still struggling to get theirs back. When your core support turns into floating voters, your in serious trouble. New Labour should waken up and smell the coffee.