Now fill the pockets and purses of basic rate Britain

I’ll join the chorus of approval for Chancellor Alistair Darling’s decision to increase tax allowances for basic rate taxpayers. I suppose the Mrs and I should declare an interest (or rather 240 of them). But I do genuinely think that this is good news for low and middle income Britain. It is also progressive and even (mildly) redistributive in a gentle “don’t scare the horses” New Labour way.

I don’t think that there has been any conversion on the road to Damascus, but the government has been given a bloody nose by normally loyal backbench MPs not the “usual suspects”. What does this mean? Gordon Brown is not stupid. I think he will take account of his backbench MPs and realise a mistake was made over the abolition of the 10p rate and learn from it.

Mike Ion talked a lot of sense on Monday about how folk have short memories. Less than 12 months ago the Tories were disintegrating over academic selection and Labour was 14% ahead in the polls. Two years is a long time in politics. This was before today’s announcement on basic rate tax.

One positive consequence could be that in the in the face of a resurgent (for now) Tory Party, is that the Government has realised that it needs to capture low and middle income Britain. Now, I would argue that this would also involve delivering on rights for agency workers, public sector pay and financial security for the self-employed etc.

While the Government may have realised in a period of low wage growth and relatively high inflation for fuel and food that they need to concentrate on making sure that low and middle income Britain release that the Labour Party has their interests at heart. They must find ways to put real money into their pockets and purses before 2010.

Will higher rate Britain (not all of course) vote for the Tories anyway now they appear to have a “respectable” One Nation toff as leader?

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Re: Now fill the pockets and purses (#1)

Is it really that redistributive when it borrows to give out the money? If it was redistributive wouldn't it have had to be paid from the richer members of society?

I'd love to believe this was the first of many more progressive policies and tax reforms but I don't think it will be.

 But hopefully it should help get the government get off the back foot a little, though I expect Cameron will try give Brown a pasting tomorrow about it.

Re: Now fill the pockets and purses (#5)

Hi Al

Yes, I think this is mildly redistributive.  This is simplistic and the sums are not that actually huge (unless you are low paid) but the national debt is in theory owed by everyone, regardless of tax bracket.  However, these changes will not benefit higher rate payers but will transfer £2.7 billion (odd) to basic rate payers?

Re: Now fill the pockets ... (#2)

"They must find ways to put real money into their pockets and purses before 2010."

Isn't this the problem though? The money has all been spent for years to come. There's nothing left.  Kenneth Clarke said some years ago that the Tories have only to wait until Labour run out of money - they always run out of money. Looks very much to me like that time has come. 

Re: Now fill the pockets ... (#6)

Hi bishophill

Labour has spent bundles on public sector infrastructure, education, health, pensioners, children and disabled...all good stuff, but have they sufficiently rewarded ordinary working people? 

There is plenty of money in this economy without needing to “soak the rich” (not matter how nice but unrealistic the idea may be)

Re: Now fill the pockets ... (#8)

BH - The "they've run our of money" argument really doesn't wash when you look at it. When Labour came to power Gordon Brown imposed a lot of his own rules and limits on borrowing.

All that's happened is that we've now slipped beyond these rules. If we make a comparison with the state of the nation's finances in the 1990's it still comes out pretty favourable.

The idea that the Tories are any better at managing the books is a complete crock.

Holed pockets and moth eaten purses (#3)

I wouldn't gloat just yet... Contrast these two things if you will?

1. The Exchequer had doubtlessly made certain forecasts in regards of North Sea revenues and fuel duties (plus the VAT) some months ago when drawing up the Budget. Since that time, as we all know, the price of oil and the product we buy at the filling station have continued to increase by quite a margin. We could assume therefore a revenue surplus over forecast of a not insignificant amount?

2. The Budget is only a couple of weeks old and yet we find ourselves with a Chancellor and PM explaining they cannot now afford to reverse the abolition of the 10p tax band.

So, how come there's no money left... surely they haven't spent those surpluses already?  And clearly the kitty is indeed empty because the Government just had to borrow £2.7 huge ones to pay for the 10p tax U-turn.

The question then is where will the money come from to fill these pockets and purses of which you speak?  Certainly the Government can't afford it. The ink on the Finance Bill isn't even dried yet but given the above is true (either they've spent the money already or the price of oil/gas has dropped) it doesn't look like they'll be any more funds this year nor next year or the year after if you can believe the Government's forecasts. Not unless they raise it from some other means... taxes principally but I guess they could flog off the Navy if needs must.

As they say, two years is a long time in politics but as Labour is unlikely to be able to dish out any more cash during that period its going to feel like a very long two years. And what will you tell these people on their doorsteps? That "thats your lot", or will you ply them with false hope and promises you know you cannot afford?

I think its time you came clean and admitted its all gone. You're going to be found out anyway because the Government will have no choice now but to raise taxes for everyone rich or poor. After all, there's a little matter of 2.7bn of debt they've just added to our nations account. Some good that'll do us when the recession hits (September 2008).

Re: greedy rich folk who will not pay their share (#7)

Hi John P
I take your point but why can't we now - over 30 years after the 98% marginal tax rates were done away with, increase taxes for the wealthy and the very rich by more than 40%?

Re: Now fill the pockets of basic rate Britain (#4)

I believe though, that we can win back the middle classes, while becoming more social-democratic. Here's why. Mild redistribution of wealth has shifted money from the middle-classes to the lowest earners, with scant pressure on those at the top. The government could reap in hundreds of billions by going after the rich on tax, while cutting taxation on the poorest, and the middle-classes, but by leveling out the complexities in the tax system, that sees billions of pounds wasted through beaurocracy, and tying the tax system up in knots. It costs money to move money around in any way other than direct redistibution.


Also, the government must play up it's progressive achievements. Like, cutting homelessness by two-thirds. That is an achievement that they should be screaming from the rooftops. They have made progressive achievements, they should tell people more.


But, we need to crackdown on low pay. Many are not being paid properly, nor do they have equal rights. This isn't a lone case, or a couple of cases. I can think of, in three categories, AT LEAST 2 and a half million people this is occuring for. One) the illiegal immigrants who are easily blackmailed by employers. Two) agency worker's. And three) homeworkers. There are many more. One measure that could improve pay for the lowest-income earners, is introducing co-determination in the workplaces.

Re: Now fill the pockets of basic rate Britain (#10)

"The government could reap in hundreds of billions by going after the rich on tax"

If your statement is true, both  Brown and Darling are hopeless incompetents...

Hundreds of billions.. total annual Government spend is £600 billion.

May I suggest you do some basic research .

Re: Now fill the pockets of basic rate Britain (#11)

I did: Between £97 billion and £150 billion is lost by not taxing non-doms. Further tens of billions are lost by not taxing the rich at the source. Further tens of billions are lost through not having the 50p rate, through not taxing the rich efficiently on National Insurance, and by allowing pension breaks etc.

Re: Now fill the pockets of basic rate Britain (#12)

Ermm..

I'm afraid that £97bn-£150bn is the estimate for total tax avoidance.

A 50% rate on earnings over £100k would bring in around £7bn.

Re: Now fill the pockets of basic rate Britain (#17)

On the first point, I stand corrected, on the second, I was overreaching but referring to all three categories combined, not tens of billions lost for each category.

Also, on the non-doms issue, not all people would pack off and leave. Does anyone imagine that they would withdraw business from the UK? No. So even gaining a few billion pounds would be worth it. But second of all, Brown has leverage on tax havens. Bermuda, Antigua, Isle of Man, Jersey etc. what do they all have in common? They are all UK dependencies. Half of all of the estimated $11.5 billion dollars lost through tax evasion/avoision is stored in UK dependencies/territories.

Re: Now fill the pockets (#9)

Careful Grayee - your starting to sound like your slipping down a lefty slope...

If even you were against the 10p Tax Rate, who the Hel did ever actually think it was a good idea????

Re: Now fill the pockets (#13)

And what exactly is wrong with a little move to the left?

Re: Now fill the pockets (#18)

Hi Fluffymike
Good point - so what we traditionally do now is to blame the "advisors" to our beloved leaders for this problem. 

Even the Lib Dems are wising up (#14)

No it wouldn't raise £7 bn, it might not raise anything at all. I posted six months ago:

"The Lib Dems had a policy in 2005 that they'd have an extra 10% tax on people earning over £100,000 p.a., which'd raise another £5bn*, a policy they dropped in 2006** and now appear to have resurrected. Which is mathematically correct. There are 500,000 people in UK with taxable income over £100,000, average taxable income £200,000. So if 500,000 pay an average extra £10,000 in income tax, that's £5bn more in the kitty...


No it f***ing well isn't!

If one-tenth of those higher rate taxpayers bugger off, that means receipts would fall by 50,000 x average income tax £70,000 = £3.5bn. And if they are all employees, it's 50,000 x average income tax/NI £100,000 = £5bn.

So what's the point?"

The Lib Dems have done their homework since, I posted recently:

Nick Clegg "... will say that the Lib Dems have abandoned their plans for a 50 per cent top rate of income tax ... but that the 40 per cent should mean 40 per cent, arguing for reducing pension tax reliefs to the standard rate" [good stuff so far, to be fair]  

The point being, higher rate tax/NI relief for pension contributions is in the order of £20 billion year (the exact figure is hard to track down and my guesstimate is just that).

Re: Even the Lib Dems are wising up (#16)

The Lib Dems dropped those proposals not because they did their homework but because they were trying to position themselves to the right of Labour.

I don't buy your argument, it's pure guesswork.

There is no morality in tax (#15)

And finally, I am totally against such high government spending, most of which is wasted, and by reverse logic, in favour of low taxation. But if you really want to tax the wealthy without damaging the economy, than tax land values, not income or 'consumption' (which, in a service society, is the same thing).