£600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted

The Chancellor, in a statement to Parliament, has just revealed that the government plans to increase the personal Income Tax allowance by £600 pounds - and backdate this to the beginning of the financial year.

This is a brilliant and welcome resolution to the 10p tax fiasco and the government rightly deserves great praise for listening and for creating a wide-ranging solution. It makes people happy when they have more money in their pocket (without complicated bureaucracy) and we have a very effective message to give to voters on the door step when we are asked about what the party is doing for them.

And a cheer for Frank Field, who had the decency to apologise to the PM for any damage that he may have caused.

Display: Sort:

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#1)

Fair play to Frank Field for apologising but would he have done it if he wasn't pleased with the tax changes? I'd still be checking for horse's heads on his pillow at night... ;) I fear the damage has already been done with his comments, ironic that the PM is allegedly so prone to outbursts and petulance, and he's maintained a dignified silence over it all, while Fields has been shooting his mouth off damaging the party.

Good move though, hopefully a good platform for a solid couple of weeks for the govt.

First bit of good news in...how long...? :)

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#2)

brilliant and welcome resolution

How is it brilliant?  Wouldn't a brilliant idea have been not to do it in the first place? 

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#5)

I agree, brilliant would have been never to have gotten ourselves in this mess in the first place.

Now have to wait and see how this plays out on the doorsteps in Crewe and Nantwich, then we will really know whether we are seeing the first chinks of light.

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#6)

I think now the momentum is fully with the Tories. If the 10p thing is all they have up their sleeve then it's manageable. If they actually announce some policies then Labour is going to remain in a grim situation for longer.

I hope that this announcement heralds a change in direction, but something tells me it will be more of the same. 

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#30)

Our best hope is that the Tories do anounce some policies because they're always hopeless at that.

To be honest, the Tories should have been finished for trying to major on the 10p tax thing in Crewe.  After all, this is a party that opposed bringing in the 10p band, abstained on removing it and refuse to commit to any sort of policy on it now.  It is only because we're having such a bad time that Cameron wasn't just laughed out of town.

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#32)

to me it smells of panic, from a government holed below the water line..

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#54)

I think this is very clever. We have successfully argued that this is a tax cut, but of course as it is unfunded, it will be paid for by borrowing. Who will have to repay this borrowing? Why the Tories of course!

So we get the credit for the tax cut and the Tories will get the blame for the tax increase that is necessary but that we have postponed so they must levy it!

This is most clever and I think it is underestimated how Gordon Brown has successfully done this before. Almost ever year there has been all this borrowing, the Tories think they score a point by complaining about it, but if they do get in after the election they must repay it! Not us!

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#57)

I don't think people are seeing this as a tax cut.

On the streets of Crewe yesterday, the voters were either labelling it an election bribe or recognising it as a £2.7bn tax rise. The most generous respondents were those asking what use £2 per week was against their hugely increasing bills? Almost universally, across all political divides, people were confused as to why the 10p tax band had been abondoned in the first place.

Politically, its been a spectacular blunder (and I predicted it would be).

As for the Tories repaying this borrowed money... ermm I can assure you that not one member of a future Conservative Government will be paying back a cent of this money. It will be you, me, our children and grand children who will be paying back the huge sums of money borrowed by this Government. 

The current Government is repaying at least £30 billion pounds a year in interest alone on the national debt. That's more than £1000 a year for every tax payer in the country and its going to get worse no matter who wins the next General Election.

So no, its not clever... its a national disgrace.

Re: Commend the Government - 10p tax (#58)

Not at all, all Labour governments should sabotage the public finances in this way, it helps to ensure failure of following Conservative government and return of Labour. 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#3)

Yes, good decision. Hopefully that should be the end of the matter now.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#4)

I'm glad that Frank Field did what he did. The Labour Party needs more people willing to challenge the system like this.

I'm glad they did this, not just messing with tax credits/winter fuel. 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#7)

Prbo....

The government made a mistake, it corrected that mistake (with interest) - and we all know why ;)

So please, stop being a troll, your party has peaked far, FAR to early.  

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#8)

The government made a mistake, it corrected that mistake (with interest) - and we all know why

Indeed it has.  All I was saying is that I'm not quite sure how this move can be described as 'brilliant' - would you care to explain?

There's nothing about the Tories peaking here at all - they're not making the running at all, frankly, as they don't need to.  It's the Government who are 'troughing', actually.  All the Tories need to do at the moment is plough a straight course and let the Labour party disintegrate.  The opposite happened in the 90s - now it's happening to the other side.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#9)

2 YEARS Prbo. Do you honestly think that your party can keep it going that long? Our party has ALL the levers of power at its disposal and there is always a coalition with the fib dems...is PR that bad ;)

You have no policy. Nothing on immigration, europe etc.. - the real right wing tory dogma has yet to show itself on these issues...and it will.

You have your shadow health secretary banging on about lesbians being denied IVF for "lack of a father figure" - who does the tory party think it is?   

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#10)

I was talking about "political" brilliance. 22 million or ALL workers always sounds good....

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#12)

Keep your hair on!  I've got no idea whether the Tories will keep 'it' going, whatever 'it' is.  All I know is that the country is tired of Labour and wants a change.  Just like Labour in 97, the Tories don't need to put forward a panoply of policies.  The old maxim of goverment's losing elections rather than opposition's winning them is coming to the fore once again.

the real right wing tory dogma has yet to show itself on these issues...and it will.

So, you're accusing the Tories of 'right-wing dogma' in their policies, even though they haven't got any policies to show that dogma in.  Sorry to be pedantic, but that doesn't quite add up...

Our party has ALL the levers of power at its disposal and there is always a coalition with the fib dems...is PR that bad ;)

?  Are you saying that you'd be willing to change the electoral system just to stay in power?

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#13)

PR would be a compromise for coalition government; and it would be fairer. I dislike it though, coalitions tend to create politcal turmoil, but if it means keeping the tories out...then I am all for it.

I was refering to the cameron "gloss" that has been cast over the tories to give the party a more presentable face....but your party is inexorably more comfortable being a party of the right rather than this faux centrism you are try so hard to convice people of.

"Caring" for poor people....come off it. What has the tory party EVER done for the poor?   

 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#19)

I don't think we should have the truly unstable PR systes of Israel or Italy, but in Spain and Ireland, they have stable systems. AV+ would maintain proportional representation, while having a constituency link, and yet allow for stable government. If it allows more environmental policies with the Greens, then I'm all for it.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#41)

I think we should leave the Commons alone and have PR for the Lords.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#43)

Good that you mention Israel and Italy, as it seems that many opponents of voting reform use those two nations as examples of why any form of PR is bad. Realistically there's no way that a proportional voting system created for the UK would be anything like either in terms of stability. I'm personally very much in favour of voting reform as I live in a Tory-Lib swing constituency, and I hate feeling that my Labour vote counts for nothing. More importantly, I'd argue that in a round about way, without first-past-the-post the whole 10p tax fiasco could have been avoided completely. Having a political system where both main parties are basically competing over middle-class constituencies in the south of England is never going to make for particularly progressive politics.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#44)

There's also the fact that PR allowed the Nazis in in Germany, and recently handed the BNP a seat on the London Assembly...

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#50)

And?

So how do all the other countries around the world who use PR manage to cope?

All you've done is plucked a couple of bad events (one major, one very minor) and failed to mention any of the good points.

PR has led to stable governments in Ireland, Germany, Switzerland etc...

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#59)

Also spider, do you seriously think that the reason why the Nazis got into power was because of PR? Did their vote shoot up expenentially because of PR? No, fascism thrives during economic hardship.


As for the BNP, there are similar, yet less extreme reasons.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#11)

on 8th May I wrote this to Ann Black..
"Gordon can solve the 10p proble at a stroke and backdate it at once
> with minimum hassle by changing Perosnal allowances so the lowest paid
> pay no tax on the 1st £10,000 of income. And pay for it by reducing
> the allowance at which 40% tax comes in. This basically takes away the
> tax savings GB gave to the richer.
>


It's not genius.

And to suggest it is... is stupid.

If I could see it then, Darling could have 12 months ago.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#14)

Thank the lord, this is a cunning move and just may save all in Crewe and nantwich, but still doesn't take us away from the poverty issue

Thanks


John

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#17)

So low earners are now staying still, basic rate earners gaining and high earners staying still.

Sort of a regressive progressive tax system.

What a bloody farce.


Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#29)

High earners aren't getting any gain - the threshold for the 40% tax rate has been lowered.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#51)

Isn't that what I said?  High earners stay still, middle income gain, low earners stay still (pre 10p scrap).

It still shows a lack of knowledge about the tax system as it is not the same as the 10p in the pound 22p basic rate system.

It will have to be paid somewhere (probably fuel or VAT) and so will still drop on the low paid.

That's what you get when you put a solicitor in charge of finance.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#60)

My apologies - I misread your comment.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#62)

That's ok.  It made me come back to this post anyway and I see that Grant Thorton has put my post in a much longer format (and charged for it) a bit further down.

That's probably why I never made partner when I was in practice.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#15)

The best we can hope is that this stops the bleeding.  We're increasing borrowing by £2.7 billion (I think) to pay for this, which isn't exactly ideal.  The IFS said that Darling's ability to balance the budget in future years would be dependent on him not getting caught up with a lot of 'one-off payments' to particular interest groups.  He's not doing a great job of it so far.

This on its own will not be enough.  But if we build on the direction of these changes- redistribution to those on low and middle incomes through the personal allowance system rather than via tax credit- in next year's budget, we may start doing better. 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#16)

Remember this does not start until September.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#18)

Does anyone really think Brown is finished, he will be looking now at carers and then care for the elderly we already know he is talking about a new tax to be paid for people to retire into care, but what happens if you do not need care.

Can anyone here really think the 10p tax fiasco was a mistake, I mean for somebody who is supposed to have kept us in the black for so long no boom and bust, will not make another major mistake, because whether you like it or not Brown has to get more money into his coffers soon rather then later, he cannot hit fuel now, so how does he do it.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#20)

I think this was the minimum necessary but it's far from clear that the issue has been resolved. What would be said if the Tories had:

  1. Taken away money from the lowest paid in order to show a "headline grabbing" tax cut.
  2. Denied vehemently that there was a problem for months until they were staring defeat in the face.
  3. Made a £2.7bn unfunded tax cut to buy themselves out of the problem.
In the present public mood I don't think Labour will get the benefit of the doubt.  And for people on very low incomes 5 months of being up to £250 short is a serious matter.  It might save Labour from being pushed into 3rd place in Crewe and Nantwich, which would be a result of a kind.

 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#21)

The tax system is needlessly complicated, taking money away from the process of redistibution of wealth (I don't know where anyone got the idea that socialists loved beaurocracy).

The ultimate goal should be to raise the tax thresholds to a £1 above an annual minimum wage. We can tax the rich, though not until the pips squeak, but it would provide much government revenue, while we could reduce taxation on the poorer, and to an extent the middle classes. As the late Molly Ivins put it,
"If you give tax cut to working- and middle-class citizens, they will run right out and spend it, thus pushing up demand, thus enabling you to reopen your fourth factory. If you give tax cuts to the wealthy, they may invest the money in a fifth factory, which will also stand idle because of a lack of demand, or they may save the money, since they don't need anything, or they may buy a polo pony with it."

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#55)

Spot on JKitleft!

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#22)

"(I don't know where anyone got the idea that socialists loved beaurocracy)."

You have obviously never had to apply for Tax Credits then? Introduced by that well known Tory: Gordon Brown.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#61)

What does that prove? Even though my mum has benefited greatly from tax credits, I think they're over complicated, yes. Regulation, not beaurocracy is the key.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#23)

Does anyone remember such a vitriolic and detailed disection of any previous Labour budget in terms of who the winners and who the losers are?  No.  My explanation for that is that we didn't make big tax cuts a major feature of previous tax cuts.  When you start defining the political debate primarily in terms of pay packet and personal gain, this is where you end up.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#24)

Eh, that should read 'didn't make bix tax cuts a major feature of previous budgets.'

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#25)


 So how is Gordon going to be able to criticize Opposition policies as "uncosted" when he's just cut a nearly £3 billion hole in his own finances? Plus, remember the old thought experiment of the merits of getting £100 today versus £200 in a year's time - people are going to be angry about losing out _now_ , and getting relief in September is not exactly going to thrill them.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#26)

You think it's sorted?  

An additional £2.7 billion of borrowing is to be added to the national debt to try to save face at the upcoming by-election. To paraphrase the late Douglas Adams, is this some strange usage of the term “sorted” that I’ve not come across before?

 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#28)

Strange how when Bush makes huge "uncosted" tax handouts by increasing national debt, the Tories said Great, way to go in the face of a possible downturn. But when the UK does similar the arguments is exactly the opposite.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#52)

Hopi Sen tracked down some of these Tory quotes, like:

“In the US the bi-partisan fiscal stimulus package means that millions of households around the country are about to receive cheques for hundreds of dollars to help them through difficult times.


In the UK, by contrast, our Government is raising taxes on the lowest paid, on small businesses and on capital gains. They are adding to the cost of living instead of easing it”

George Osborne, April 8th

The U.S. tax giveaway, which Osborne loved, was $150 billion compared to out £2.7 billion. Like the Big Lie, maybe the Big Tax Giveaway is right?

U.S Economic Stimulus Payments (#53)

Its interesting that you highlight the US Economic Stimulus Payments, lets look at those shall we?

First of all, the American consumer (taxpayer) is getting £50bn ($100bn US Dollars), the other £25bn is going direct to businesses. Also, if you were to take account of the population difference, the US rebate is equivilent to roughly £10bn in our money.

Secondly, the US Economic Stimulus Payments are the results of a REAL tax cut. The tax cuts are already factored into the years from 2009 and will show as a simple reduction in the taxes paid by the consumer. For this year 2008, ALL parties agreed that the reduction in taxes would be refunded early... in other words simply brought forward.

The difference with the UK couldn't be more starker...  Brown's £2.7bn isn't a tax cut, its borrowed money that we will all have to pay back eventually. It is in fact a deferred tax RISE!

The US rebate is exactly the opposite.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#27)



Grant Thornton say:
Basic rate taxpayers benefit by £120 while low income earners on £7,455 remain £32.40 worse off. Leading business and financial adviser, Grant Thornton, says the Chancellor's announcement to raise personal allowances to offset losses to low income earners by the abolition of the 10p rate will still leave some low income earners worse off, while benefiting all basic rate taxpayers under 65 to the tune of £120.

Francesca Lagerberg, head of Grant Thornton's national tax office, says although it is pleasing to see the government, having blundered on this decision from the outset, moving quickly to clean up the mess created for low income earners. However, she is concerned that raising personal allowances by £600 (to £6,035) is not targeting all those affected.

"While the Chancellor's plan offers a solution to the political problem it does not offer full compensation to those worst hit by the abolition of the 10p rate, as there are still some who will spend the 2008/09 tax year worse off," she says. "Furthermore, and rubbing further salt into the wound of those low income earners who have not been helped by today's announcement, is the fact that a large number of middle income earners will benefit from the raising of the personal allowance by £120 as well*."

"The Chancellor has delivered an essentially unfunded early Christmas present to a large number of UK workers, but failed to undo its mistake for around 1.1 million low income households." Lagerberg says many UK workers will be up-beat about the announcement expecting an additional and unplanned boost to their income, but those earning £7,455 will still be £32.40 in arrears come the end of the 2008/09 tax year.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#33)

But £7,455 is only a part-time job income (full-time NMW is ~£11k+), and low-paid with children didn't lose out because of the large Child Tax Credit increase. So the Grant Thornton example is a corner case of a childless taxpayer deciding not to work full-time, or a second-earner with a well-paid partner who made good gains from the 22p to 20p tax rate drop.

So this is a way hyped-up example.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#31)

I suppose the real test of this is in Crewe...;) - I dearly wish to see cameron totally ridiculed for a defeat....especially when the polls say otherwise.

No one really cares what tory trolls think madasafish, but we appreciate the debate. It is an inescapable fact that a tax break for ALL the uk's workers is a welcome development.

Regardless of its intention.... 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#34)

The lowest paid tax payers are still losing out. He has sorted the additional tax for the average loser only.

And to borrow money to give a tax bribe before the election plays into the Tories hands even more.

I'm sure Darling was saying that the Tories needed to explain how they would pay for the 10p rate to be reinstated. No problems for darling - he has just borrowed the money.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#35)

It IS brilliant.  It means that not only have basic rate taxpayers gone from 22% to 200% this April, but their personal tax-free allowance has gone from £5225 in the 2007/8 tax year to £6035 in the 2008/9 tax year - an increase of 15%. Plus the increase in family tax credits announced last year still stands.

The Tories would never bother with basic rate and ordinary people this way (all 22 million of them). They are only interested in reducing inheritance tax for millionaires and reducing corporation tax.

If voters can't see this it's because we Labour people are not putting the message across properly (because we are too busy beating ourselves up and while giving the Tories a free pass).

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#37)

whoops! that should have said "basic rate taxpayers have gone from 22% to 20% this April"

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#36)

P.S. Lots of Tories on this thread, e.g. madasafish. They must be upset if they can be bothered to come to a Labour website to post their thoughts!

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#38)

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#39)

Let's not forget about all this, that the expected outcome of today was going to be typical tinkering with an overly complex system, targetting various groups instead of everyone.

I genuinely expected today that it was going to be some pensioner allowance changes, and some tax credit changes. It was going to be complex and wouldn't please anyone.

I don't believe anyone really expected this, and looking at the political analysis, at last Labour have managed to do something genuinely headline grabbing and put the Tories on the back foot.

Yes, we've had to borrow for it, but I don't think anyone dared dream we'd be able to say, at the end of today, that 22 million taxpayers would be better off and 600,000 people taken out of income tax altogether.

That's the bottom line, and yes the 10p fiasco on the whole was messy, drawn out and needlessly damaging on the government, but at last we can draw a line under it and move on.

 
Now what next, oh, ID cards and 42 day detention...great...
 

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#47)

What nest welfare reforms cuts, and a new tax to pay for care for the elderly, plus ID Cards plus 42 days, it's never ending.

Unemployment going up, not a lot but getting near to 2 million

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#40)

There will be no significant political benefit to Labour from this, and it will make no difference to the Crewe result. The 10p fiasco is a disastrous negative for us - the longer it stays in the headlines the worse the political effect will be. The voters are not going to give us much credit for clearing up a totally unnecessary mess which we created - and at the cost of going back on what we said only a few weeks ago, namely that the budget could not be unpicked. My expectation remains that the Crewe result will be disastrous and Gordon Brown will be forced out shortly thereafter.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#42)

Well I hope you come back on in a couple of months time when Brown is still leader and admit you got that bit wrong! :)

I just don't see Labour being so daft as to go for a third prime minister in one parliament. It would give infinite ammunition to the tories.

Although I think you are probably right about the Crewe result.

10p tax 'NOT' sorted (#45)

Having long followed the 10p tax saga - even before it became a national issue - I looked forward to seeing how it would be finally resolved (or not).

Sadly, this latest stunt from the Government is a colossal political blunder which is destined to make matters much much worse. In fairness, the Government were always likely to be damned if they did and damned if they didn't. However they have now left themselves open to being damned across all fronts.

Gone is the mantra of "no more boom or bust", gone is fiscal prudence, gone also is the current PM's sacred Golden Rule and gone forever is any possible attack Labour might have made against so called Tory 'unfunded tax cuts'. Politically, its now officially open season at the hunt and I'm afraid we all know who the rabbits are going to be.

Labour has been forced into a panic measure which can only exponentially embolden the opposition parties. It will further reinforce in the public eye (and critically the voters of Crewe) the message that Labour cannot ever again be trusted to run the economy.

There are also historic parallels with previous failed Labour Governments that people can now readily hang the current troubles: The 'mini-budgets' of the 60's and 70's, that infamous IMF crisis (coincidentally involving a loan of £2.3bn to save Callaghan) and the 12% fall of the Pound - today its fallen almost 20% in the past year. Just the kind of things Labour would prefer to remain forgotten but will now be brought out into the light and placed in front of a new generation of potential voters.

If anyone doubts how badly this is playing then you should check out today's newspaper headlines. Tomorrow, they will be full of expert analysis from economists as they pick apart the measures and highlight in gloomy terms just how much this is going to cost us all. By the end of the week, no one is actually going to feel better off and several groups of people are going to feel positively robbed.

Come the weekend, the Tories, Liberals and Labour back benches are going to be talking very publically about a near future without Brown and Darling.  On Sunday, the polls will demonstrate that this tax measure and Brown's soon to be announced plans for the year have spectacularly missed their targets. And next week, the people of Crewe will deliver their verdict... I don't expect it to be good for Labour.

As if to drive home how much Labour are out of touch with the public feeling, just read the last paragraph in the original post:
"And a cheer for Frank Field, who had the decency to apologise to the PM for any damage that he may have caused."

Shouldn't the first call for an apology be placed upon the PM to apologise for the damage that he has caused the British people? Typically, the inward looking Labour party seems to think everything is swell with the world as long as the leader is happy.

In summary, this has been far from a brilliant resolution. In fact its tactically ineffective and very damaging strategically. Conservative HQ must think all their christmases have come at once.


Re: 10p tax 'NOT' sorted (#46)

I don't think this bears comparison with the 60s or 70s - those crises were much worse and represented a level of national economic failure which is far removed from the 10p issue - a  relatively minor political error by comparison with devaluation and the IMF loan (or even black Wednesday). Nevertheless i think it will not save Brown for the simple reason that it is clear that if we go into an election with him as leader defeat is certain. If we have a new leader defeat may still be probable, but it would not be certain. A new leader will have a better chance of saving the seats of MPs with small majorities, and therefore MPs with small majorities will shortly be leading the charge to get Brown out. Our current dire position in the polls is due mostly to personal failings on Brown's part and to the disastrously negative view the public has of him. He has apparently not been mentioned in the Crewe by-election literature. Are we supposed to get through a general election campaign without mentioning the PM? Inconceiveable.

Re: 10p tax 'NOT' sorted (#56)

"I don't think this bears comparison with the 60s or 70s - those crises were much worse and represented a level of national economic failure which is far removed from the 10p issue"

You might not think it bears camparison, but that's not what the media or the voters are currently saying.  Even Newsnight's Jeremy Paxman forced Darling to admit it had been a 'mini-budget'; an insidious phrase purposely used to reinforce the connection with the days of old.

You're correct that the 10p fiasco is on its own is a relatively minor matter (although the low earners might not think so) but then so were all the many small incremental set-backs during the 70's that eventually added up to a full blown crisis. This Government's recent fumbles set against the worsening economic data could so easily become a national political failure every bit as severe as Challaghan's - if not a economical one.

Incidentally, Black Wednesday probably cost the country about £3bn after the dust had settled, so the 10p U-turn does have its self-inflicted parallel with the past.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#48)

Hmm. As I understand it this will be funded by more borrowing. Not, I think a good plan, and a 'solution' that only serves to further undermine the government's reputation for prudent management of the economy. It would have been better if the expense could have been matched by cuts in spending on stuff we don't need like ID cards, Trident, the war in Iraq etc. or by reversing the daft decision to cut the already very low standard rate of income tax.

Re: £600 on Tax Allowance: 10p tax sorted (#49)

I am retired and under aged 65.  I will still be required to pay an additional £112 this year.  I am appalled that the Chancellor is still stating that the £50 increase in winter fuel allowance is part of the compensation package.  Everyone over the age of 60 is entitled to this allowance and it is only those of us between the ages of 60 and 64 who are effected by the removal of the 10p tax band.

And so - I worked for 42 years and contributed to a pension scheme so I would not be a burden to the state.  I am not wealthy and yet have to pay additional tax so that those with more income benefit.

This has been a disaster for Labour and points up the complexity of the tax system since Gordon Brown became Chancellor.  The changes may have satisfied the PLP and some who have not worked out the tax they will now be paying.  It is wrong that over 1m will still lose out.  Whilst I am pleased that some adjustments have been made, I remain very angry that the error or misjudgement occurred.  Reputations can be destroyed very easily and I believe the PM's reputation has suffered.  Added to which, the Governor of the BofE has stated today that inflation is on the rise (don't we know it) and the situation is likely to get worse over the next year.  The tax burden will have to rise next year or public spending cut as we cannot continue to borrow.  The PM's reputation will suffer more if we exceed our borrowing rate.

The decision to remove the 10p tax band was to reduce the 22p tax band to 20p.  The PM was reported to have told the PLP that the tories were unable to do this.  The decision therefore was political - the cut was made on the backs of the low paid.  Without the backbench revolt - rather late in the day -and the public outcry and consequential voting pattern in the local elections, the PM would have never given in.  Did he not maintain that only  a few people would be effected.

There remains a lot to be done.  Those on low incomes will remain hurt by the removal of the policy and are presently having to pay higher tax bills now.  The package announced yesterday will not easily restore confidence.  There is a rough road ahead as the economy slows.  Somehow I am not optimistic that the government can restore its reputation in the short term.  The good thing is that the complacency shown by some Ministers (not John Denham) has gone.  They now know that the core vote who were effected by the 10p tax fiasco are very willing to desert the party.