Grassroots in GS deal to save seats

alexhilton Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 10:27:54 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

In a move brokered by Amicus Unite Deputy General Secretary Tony Dubbins, the Grassroots Alliance has agreed to back Mike Griffiths for General Secretary, having secured the withdrawal of "wildcard" left-wing NEC candidate John Wiseman, the Labour candidate in Westmoreland & Lonsdale.

Wiseman has used the pages of Labourhome.org to present a platform that a number of left-wingers have found attractive, and which is known to have caused concern among Grassroots Alliance figures, who are not presenting "celebrity" candidate Walter Wolfgang for a further two-year bid - and who fear a split in the left-wing vote.

While John Wiseman should be proud to have secured from the Grassroots Alliance an undertaking to be more democratic in two years time (at the next NEC election) a further concession the left-wing slate has made is a promise to support Amicus Official Mike Griffiths' application for General Secretary of the Labour Party.

The Grassroots Alliance may well save a seat on the NEC through this deal - and I certainly hold no brief against Griffiths - but is this really the best way to recruit a General Secretary for the party in difficult times?

John Wiseman's announcement can be read here.




"Dear Comrades

With great regret I have to withdraw from the NEC elections. This decision has been taken after discussion between myself and my DGS Tony Dubbins for the unions sake.. The GRA have promised the following in return.

1) All left and centre-left groups will be able to nominate in the next GRA slate

including the LRC, Compass, the Campaign for Socialism in Scotland, Welsh Left, CWU left, The Amicus Unity Gazette, the Unison Left, T&GWU broad left, Co-op party? etc.  In summary will be more democratic and less pig headed.

They have also promised to support Mike Griffiths for the General Secretary of the Labour Party

Thanks to Burnley and Westmorland espescially.  I urge support for the GRA slate.

Thanks

John Wiseman
PPC Westmorland and Lonsdale"


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Grassroots in GS deal to save seats | 40 comments (40 topical)

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#1)

by Peter Kenyon on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 11:13:50 PM GMT

Dear Alex Thanks for the news. Do you know when all the listed organisations met to agree the undertaking as set out in John's posting?


Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#2)

by alexhilton on Sun Mar 02, 2008 at 11:21:02 PM GMT

As a key figure in one of those organisations, I presume you're making a point there Peter. I'm afraid I have not further information and have merely edirotialised John's post.


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#3)

by MatthewStiles on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 11:35:35 AM GMT

Alex

Are you having a laugh?  Do you really think that the NEC reps are voting for Griffiths just because Mr Wiseman has agreed to withdraw his candidature?


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#4)

by davidfloyd on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 11:56:16 AM GMT

This is hilarious stuff. Is there really the remotest possibility that GRA NEC members would have considered voting for the other guy?

Also interested in Peter's point. Who was/is authorised to make deals with Mr Wiseman on behalf of the GRA and on what basis?

 

 


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#5)

by Wiseman on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 12:01:52 PM GMT

yes the GRA had seen myself standing as a union backed move so they were conisidering not backing Mike.  I have not been doing the negotiating it has been Tony.

With regards

John Wiseman


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#8)

by MatthewStiles on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 12:25:17 PM GMT

Sorry John, but I am quite sure that here you are talking absolute nonsense.  The GRA has not seen you standing as "union-backed".  Why should they?


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#14)

by Wiseman on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 04:14:15 PM GMT

Matthew BELIEVE ME i would have not have made this deal if there had not been a threat to my union or left unity.

Thanks

John Wiseman


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#26)

by repub on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:21:43 AM GMT

John I don't imagine the CLGA saw you as union-backed since...er...you never had the backing of a union, did you? Certainly not amicus.

And why do you suggest the union broad lefts and, somewhat bizarrely, the Co-op Party will want to get involved in the CLGA in future. Do you know something no-one else does?

Anyway I am sure Walter Wolfgang will still support Keith Sonnet.


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#12)

by alexhilton on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 03:45:11 PM GMT

My understanding is that the GA NEC members were going to abstain and are now going to support Mike. Not entire certain how this fits into the party's equal opps policies for recruitment.

To be fair, I think Mike was always the front runner.


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#29)

by repub on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:40:52 AM GMT

Why did you thinkn the CLGA NEC members were going to abstain?

I thought the most obvious position they would take would be to support Sonnet,  but ultimately back Griffiths over any private sector candidate...


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#6)

by Wiseman on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 12:02:52 PM GMT

That is true I am afraid Mathew and the promises of more democracy in the future makes for a stronger left.

John


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#10)

by andycharlwood on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 01:36:05 PM GMT

Comedy - I can't believe you are taking it seriously Alex......


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#25)

by BF on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:15:21 AM GMT

Alex, you say "John Wiseman should be proud to have secured from the Grassroots Alliance an undertaking to be more democratic in two years time".

The CLGA has not met recently so you can't refer to the Alliance itself making such a commitment, rather you are suggesting certain individuals have made that commitment. But in that case your post only holds water if you are able to name those individuals. I imagine you won't, as I imagine the said agreement is entirely fabricated...it's certainly being used to attack the CLGA on the rest of this thread!


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#31)

by Wiseman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:25:00 AM GMT

Dear all

Move on!!  Alex is telling facts not lies and the problem is some of you can't accept it

John


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#7)

by Wiseman on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 12:05:01 PM GMT

Dear Peter

Negotiations have begun with compass.  The LRC are already part of the process the AUG and T&GWU broad lefts have been promised an input from Willsman based on a nomination per grouping

John


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal as NEC candidate (#9)

by grimupnorth on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 01:21:08 PM GMT

Dear Peter,
Do you  know when all the listed organisations met to discuss the make-up of the Grasroots Alliance?
One  good which has hopefully come  out of this is that  in future the CLGA  will be chosen in a proper, democratic  fashion and  involving  groups  like the LRC and Campaign for Socialism ( which it hasn't done for a couple  of years) . I think  we would both agree that's a bit of an  improvement  on the way it's operated previously.  


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#11)

by realitycheck on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 03:39:17 PM GMT

This is just appalling. Typical stitch up that I expect more from Labour First than from the democratic left!

Wiseman I have a lot of respect for what you stand for however I think you have made a serious error.

This is a dodgy deal and you know it. This is shameful smoke-filled rooms style fixing at its worst. By succumbing to this pressure you are shutting out a voice for ordinary members and losing credibility.

Yes I am glad that there is movement on a more democratic left slate in two years but will believe it when I see it.

Are we to believe that the GRA NEC members would have blocked Mike for General Secretary. I don't think so. You have been had and the members have been denied a voice.
 


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#13)

by realitycheck on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 03:51:59 PM GMT

Also its disgusting that the GRA are adopting such a casual attitude to the appointment of the next General Secretary.


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#15)

by June Lefty on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 05:07:11 PM GMT

I'm absolutely shocked at this. I had Wiseman down as someone with more guts than this. I have been lobbying the members of my CLP for the last month or so into both nominating and voting for him. It would've been great to have someone not just from the Left elected, but someone not beholden to the small clique running the Grassroots Alliance.

However, I'm more disappointed in the GRA; I feel that once again they have let all of us on the Left of the party down. Their shady anti-democratic, Stalinist behaviour is not befitting of Leftist politics. This dodgy deal deprives us a chance to vote for a fantastic potential candidate, especially as this is exactly what Wiseman was supposed to stand against.

 


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#16)

by MatthewStiles on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 06:40:06 PM GMT

This thread is a joke.  June lefty and realitycheck make their first posts as supposed left-wingers to slag off the GRA (just like Val29 and youngleft before them).  Until they give out their real names and CLP's I will find it difficult to believe that these are genuine postings.

Yours

Matthew Stiles (Hornsey and Wood Green, formerly of Greenwich and Woolwich) 


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#18)

by grimupnorth on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:18:19 PM GMT

John has been under a phenomenal amount of pressure to stand down. And that's  putting it mildly.  He may  or may not have made the right decision.
But what this whole episode  shows is that  the GRA badly  needs re-forming and democratiisng. FRankly, it does not  come   out of this particularly well.  One can  only  hope for  things to be  better  next time. If CLGA  does not take  on board that the left has had  enough of its lack of consultation and London-centric attitude - and lack of left candidates -  then its days  are numbered. I hope everyone  concerned  sees sense. John stood  on an  honest agenda. Maybe he's  just too honest......


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#17)

by EmperorGurl on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:15:41 PM GMT

Is it worth voting for anyone for the NEC now?  Wiseman's candidacy was supposed to be something different, but it appears that he and the Grassroots Alliance are just as prepared as the right to make shady deals to further their own interests.


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#19)

by MatthewStiles on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:22:21 PM GMT

And now EmperorGurl makes their first post.  As I said what a joke.  Is this what is known as sock puppets?


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#20)

by MatthewStiles on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 07:27:23 PM GMT

Just noticed that John has wisely (sorry for the pun) taken down his original post.  I won't comment any more on John ,I am sure at heart he is a decent comrade, but the headline about deals regarding the General Secretary was a nonsense. 


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#23)

by alexhilton on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:53:15 AM GMT

Matthew. I heard about the GS deal from a reliable source, the veracity of which I have no reason to question - and on that basis I wrote the story. What's your basis for rubbishing my piece?


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#24)

by repub on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 07:09:20 AM GMT

But Alex surely you must be able to admit that since there has been no meeting of CLGA groups any such suggested agreement on the nomination of the next CLGA slate can't...well....exist...


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#27)

by Peter Kenyon on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:00:55 AM GMT

Dear Alex

In the world of reputable journalism a minimum of two primary sources is the rule, except in very exceptional circumstances.

In this instance, a call to one of the principals in the CLGA would have made the facts clear.

As you ought to have gathered by now there have been no meetings either by conference call or in person of the CLGA or its constituent organisations, present or future to discuss the appointment of a new GS.

Whatever trust you place in your source is beside the point - a correction is the minimum obligation, I would have thought, you owe your readers, if only to protect Labourhome's reputation.


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#28)

by alexhilton on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:39:13 AM GMT

Is anyone suggesting that the events described above did not happen? I rather think you're, perhaps accurately, questioning the validity of what has been done. If you can cast further light on the matter then please do so.


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#30)

by grimupnorth on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:27:07 AM GMT

I think there  are certain people here intent  on  rubbishing John Wiseman so let's be clear about  one thing. Whatever  has been agreed or not, I know that John  has stood down in the honest belief it would be better for the left and   also in the long-term  interests of the Grassroots Alliance ( or whatever takes  its place  in two years' time) .
It's also clear that the status quo ie the GRA  carrying  on  as it has done previously is NOT an option. Too many decisions  have been made  in its name WITHOUT consultation of  constituent groups and that is why some of us who have always been  supportive  want to  see  it reformed - with input from groups like  LRC  and Compass. Both of whom are   far bigger  than any of the current constituents of the  CLGA


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#32)

by Wiseman on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 10:26:20 AM GMT

Dear Pete

The deal is genuine  I suggest you talk to Willsman.  please don't discredit Alex.

John


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#21)

by Rathfelder on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 09:42:17 PM GMT

Aren't there some more important issues here - like how we get a Labour Party machine which might actually not land us all in the shit too frequently?  Something Mike Griffiths might be better at than the other candidates?


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#22)

by alexhilton on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:49:45 AM GMT

A humble (*ahem) party member like me might hope the best person will get the job on merit anyway.


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal (#33)

by PGKenyon on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 01:30:02 PM GMT

Dear rathfelder

If you regard the truth as unimportant, I suppose you could be right!

Yes, John, of course I have spoken to Pete W and anyone else who might have been involved on behalf of the CLGA.

Yes, Susan you and I as members of the Save the Labour 2007 Committee would have prefered a widening of the democratic process for selecting CLGA candidates for the 2008 NEC election. And yes, STLP has been committed to that idea since before the meeting you attended with the CLPD executive committee. And yes, STLP remains committed to the idea since you decided to stand down from its committee and get elected to the LRC.

On the subject of the GS, I'm with Alex. Though there are questions about the job given the current state of the Party and the competences needed to take it on, which go beyond not landing us 'all in the shit too frequently', as you so delicately put it IMHO.


[ Parent ]

Re: John Wiseman's withdrawal (#34)

by grimupnorth on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 03:33:21 PM GMT

Peter, just to clarify. I did NOT stand down from the STLP  committee  to "get elected to the LRC."  I stood down from the STLP committee  because  given that STLP  does NOT have  policy positons, not helpful to have  a key member  who supports a  particular ideological  position. I did  offer to stand down a year ago  but was persuaded not to.......by  the other  committee  members including  yourself. 


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#35)

by daisycutter on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 09:50:57 PM GMT

This whole story is preposterous. Are we to assume that if Mike Griffiths wins the GS position - and I for one hope he does - then it is only thanks to John Wiseman? The only people who might believe that are people who have never met John Wiseman. And incidentally, why should the Amicus Unity Gazette group (a faction within a LP affiliate) have any say in choosing internal Labour Party candidates when many of its members are themselves members or supporters of the SWP?


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#36)

by Ann Black on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 08:18:22 AM GMT

As an NEC member standing for re-election with the support of the centre-left GRA I know nothing about any deals on the GS or anything else.


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#37)

by Wiseman on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:06:01 AM GMT

Dear Ann

This is not a joke. I think communication needs improving somewhere.  Ann if there had not been something agreed I wouldn't have stood down, when I had enough noms.

John


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#38)

by alexhilton on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 11:21:53 AM GMT

John,

Does this mean you are still standing then?


[ Parent ]

Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#39)

by Wiseman on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 05:56:43 PM GMT

Dear Alex

The last thing I am going to say on this is that I stood down for left unity and secure no damage to the left and centre left of the party

John


Re: Grassroots in GS deal to save seats (#40)

by Val29 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:41:59 PM GMT

so given Griffiths lost where does this leave you and your deal?


[ Parent ]

Grassroots in GS deal to save seats | 40 comments (40 topical)