Barack Obama - Yes We Can

grayee Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 10:42:05 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Earlier on today I had yet another rather dispiriting exchange with a BNP supporter on my personal blog over Ken Livingstone and the London GLA elections. Is it politically incorrect to call people morons nowadays?

Tonight, while checking out my daily “bloggers4labour” digest, I came across the Tom Watson MP link to “Yes We Can - Barack Obama Music video”. Tom calls it “powerful” stuff. I agree. Barack really has got something. He is very, very good. I’m not naturally that keen on inspirational “Kennedy” type figures. However, maybe I am just a little too cynical?





Anyway, good luck to the US Democratic Party candidates. Either way there will be UNISON members who will be giving up their holidays and flying across the pond to help out in the actual Presidential elections.

I know I shouldn’t but if Ken decides to retire (God forbid of course) as Mayor in 2012, I just hope we have an inspirational Black Labour candidate whose parents were originally immigrants to London. The prospect of winding up BNP supporters with such a candidate is just too good to miss.

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Barack Obama - Yes We Can | 25 comments (25 topical)

Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#1)

by alsoleeds on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 11:13:49 PM GMT

I think we do have black inspirational leaders in the party in London. When ken decides to retire their will be a good contest and maybe we will get soem of the US magic in our own selection


Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#2)

by grayee on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 11:43:43 PM GMT

True - but first, lets get Ken and his GLA comrades re-elected.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#3)

by Graham on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:57:48 AM GMT

The polling's getting very interesting. Hillary had big leads in California, New Jersey and Missouri just two weeks ago. Now, according to this latest poll, Obama's closed down the leads to being statistically insignificant in NJ and Missouri.  He has a four point lead in California - close to the edge of the margin of error. 

Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign guru James Carville, who is also advising Hillary, admitted on Meet the Press yesterday that if she can't hold California it is very bad for her.


Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#4)

by TonyHannon on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:47:59 AM GMT

That’s a brilliant video. Creative, clever and articulate.

The one very annoying thing about politics is that cynical, poisonous and illogical critics will see this video and Obama’s communicating ability as demonstration of rhetoric above cold hard ugly politicking – as if cold hard politicking was something to be admired.

Anyone who wants to be assured that Obama is as much substance as rhetoric can look at his voting record – one of the most left wing in the Senate. They can look at his time in the Illinois State Senate. Combine this with the fact that no other Democrat has EVER attracted the support of as many Republicans and Independents.

Add to this that he takes no money from the over-influential lobbyists. No politician in the history of the World has ever raised as much money (voluntarily) from as many separate ordinary people.

A communicating intellect; rhetorical and creative; left wing, conciliatory with those who disagree with him and not financed by Washington lobbyists – it doesn’t matter a damn about his race – he is already everything we can credibly ask for.


Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#5)

by lastword on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:42:25 AM GMT

"A communicating intellect; rhetorical and creative; left wing, conciliatory with those who disagree with him and not financed by Washington lobbyists – it doesn’t matter a damn about his race – he is already everything we can credibly ask for".

Abso-bloody-lutley! 


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#6)

by NorthernMonkey on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM GMT

...except universal health care!


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#9)

by grayee on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:13:11 PM GMT

And for some reason voting against restricting excess interest charges on loans


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#10)

by TonyHannon on Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 11:33:09 AM GMT

That is a good point - I wonder why he voted that way?


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#11)

by rwendland on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 11:25:50 AM GMT

I read a claim that amendment came out of the credit card lobby. Yeah, I don't understand.

I do notice Obama voted for the better of two Minimum Wage Increases, $7.25 rather than $6.25. Amazingly congress did not pass either!


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#12)

by TonyHannon on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 12:27:49 PM GMT

The famous problem with Bills that go to the Senate is typically the pork barrell ammendments that get attached to them.

A perfectly good bill could come with a late and unacceptable addition which makes people vote against.

I'm only speculating - I don't know the particulars of this Bill [and since I'm praying the man will be elected and deliver us all from the poll tested politics of mediocrity - I'm not too minded to bother to find out!! ;-)  ]


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#7)

by jkitleft on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 06:14:38 PM GMT

I'm suprised he hasn't been the major beneficiary of the Hispanic/ Union vote, with the 'Yes We Can' slogan of Cesar Chavez.


Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#8)

by lastword on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:26:49 PM GMT

Si! Se puede!


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#13)

by Wilberforce on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 02:57:40 PM GMT

Yes, we can what?

Its one thing to be inspirational, its another things to have clearly articulated and actionable policies.
Change ,  yes. But what and how? At least Hillary offers the experience and the polcies - thats what is refreshing.

This is the US Presidency we are talking about, not a submission for the MTV-Vogue Music Awards.



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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#14)

by TonyHannon on Thu Feb 07, 2008 at 04:54:50 PM GMT

It's come to something when people don't even read the rhetoric!!

The video being referenced is a song made from a rallying speech - not an iteration of a policy paper.

If you’re interested in his policies, read this – his position on twenty major issues. The documents submitted by Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been the most comprehensive election “Plans for America” delivered by any Democrat at this stage of a Presidential election (not counting incumbents). Look at Obama’s and compare it with Hillary’s. Both pretty clear on promises and positions. Both pretty good. Obama has outlined his record and provided factsheets on each issue. He has also linked each position to policy speeches.

Obama has clearly articulated and actionable policies. Why is it that detractors look at his towering communication and rallying ability and assume it must be at the cost of substance and policy?

The man has spent eight years in the Illinois Senate, which is not exactly easy to get elected to, and has, in two years the most consistent liberal voting record in the US Senate (puzzling view on interest limits notwithstanding).

He is demonstrably most liberal, yet the Republicans don’t hate him – I consider that qualities of intelligence and leadership.

Here’s how he voted in the Senate. Read it and you might be even more refreshed than whatever Hillary said or did to please you.  

Yes, we can change – was the recurring theme of a speech at a rally he gave after he scored a massive victory in South Carolina. He was talking about changing the petty, spiteful, nature of point scoring politics (he can – Republicans don’t hate him and thousands of Republicans have endorsed and supported him). Changing the influence of lobbyists (he can – he has not been bought by them). Changing the centralisation of power with the President (he insists that his Secretary’s will be allowed to disagree with him). Changing the approach to the Iraq war (he opposed it from the very start – counter to 75% of his countrymen).

I understand Hillary has experience (I’d appreciate it more if someone voted her in as First Lady). I think she has a good record as a solid Democrat. If she were up against anyone other than the most intelligent, practical, left-wing, inspiring politician I’ve ever seen, then I’d support her enthusiastically.

As it is – she’s up against a superior candidate and it’s fair to say it’s unlikely she’d even be where she is if it wasn’t for her husband (one of the greatest US Presidents).


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#15)

by NorthernMonkey on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 02:10:43 AM GMT

Hillary's more talented than her husband. If she hadn't have married Bill, she probably would have run for President sooner.


For the record...


Can Obama deliver universal health care? NO HE CAN'T!


Will Obama move away from the Bush foreign policy doctrine? NO HE WON'T!


Will Obama compromise too much with the Republicans? YES HE WILL!


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#16)

by TonyHannon on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 08:47:07 AM GMT

Not going another five rounds NM.

You're demonstrating utter ignorance - perhaps you should stick to UK politics where you occasionally have a valid point where you're not being a serial apologist for mediocraty.

It's like sayng Cherie Blair was more talented than Tony.

You're missing the point on the first statement.
The second is complete nonsense (Obama is anti-Iraq, pro-UN and pro-Diplomacy). Hillary is a Republican dream - so much so that Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh support her over McCain.
Final point is just laughable.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#17)

by NorthernMonkey on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 05:20:24 PM GMT

Tony, I don't think we need to bring insults into this. You know I'm not ignorant, but I have a very different viewpoint from you.

Cherie Blair should not be compared with Hillary Clinton. Hillary is an intelligent, dynamic individual - worthy of the position of head of government, Cherie is not. You shouldn't assume, in a sexist manner, that all male politicians' wives are the same.

Obama said he would be happy to strike Pakistan with immediate effect, without consulting the UN nor the Pakistani government, if he knew Osama Bin Laden was hiding there. This to me, is completely unacceptable and it is a continuation of the Bush doctrine.


Coulter and Limbaugh said that to express their hatred of McCain, rather than their like of Hillary. In fact, they both hate Hillary - and that is a good thing.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#18)

by jkitleft on Fri Feb 08, 2008 at 05:52:14 PM GMT

NM, Obama won't compromise. He'll WORK with Republicans. Both Clintons would sell evrything and anything to the highest bidder, compromising their 'liberal' bills, which could be passed even without Republican help, just to bump up polling statistics. Obama, like Ted Kennedy, is known as one of the most liberal senators, thus, like Kennedy he probably realises that he'll need to get Republican votes through argument. Working with some of the New England Republicans, or other moderates is not a bad thing. Compromising is. The Clintons, have a habit of compromising.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#19)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 12:53:35 AM GMT

jkitleft, Obama has already compromised on so many issues.

I think the reason why he hasn't gone for universal health care is precisely because he wants to placate the Republicans.

His policy on striking Pakistan without hesitation (and without diplomacy) if Bin Laden is found there could have been adopted straight from the Bush doctrine.

He says he's not against capital punishment and that he doesn't support same-sex marriage. Does anybody seriously believe that a man who supposedly has the most liberal record in the Senate really believes in those things? To me, this shows dishonesty and a willingness to abandon principles in order to get the keys to the White House.

Clinton doesn't give a damn what Republicans think of her, and I like that. Obama makes me think that he'll do anything to keep everyone happy with him, rather than getting on pursuing a Democratic agenda in the White House.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#21)

by jkitleft on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:20:36 AM GMT

NM, you appear to have obfuscated the meaning of working with the Republicans, and connoted it with compromising with them. He, like Kennedy, is good at working with Republicans.


Clinton is more sketchy on the ideas of abortion, capital punisment etc. I think, the Democrats are gutless, this can be extended to Obama, but it is far more potent with Hillary. She and her husband epitomised the willingness, with which they were willing to abandon principles and opinions in order to get the keys to the White House.


I think Clinton hates Republicans, the same way New Labour hates the Tories. the tribalism is there, but the differences are thin on the ground. I do not think this is a misogynist argument, as has been purported to any Clinton critics.


People say that the US is ready for a woman president, and thus they are supporting Hillary. But we were ready for a woman Prime Minister in 1979...


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#23)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:50:38 PM GMT

NM, you appear to have obfuscated the meaning of working with the Republicans, and connoted it with compromising with them

That's not true jk - refusing to support universal health-care is not 'working' with Republicans, it is abandoning Democratic principles. The last thing I want to see is a Democrat in the White House who doesn't take the opportunities available to them, but instead compromises too much.


If by Kennedy, you're referring to Ted Kennedy, then I disagree - Ted Kennedy truly is decisive and any Republicans who deal with him (eg. McCain) end up being hated for it.


Clinton's position on abortion, is that whilst she doesn't think abortion is ever a good thing, she is very firmly pro-choice and this is replicated in her voting record.


I also think it's unfair to criticise Hillary for relying on her husband's record in office only then to attack her for something her husband did in office. She is running for the White House on her own merit. Naturally, as an involved First Lady she did have control over some big policy issues during her husband's Presidency, but these are generally positive. For example, she tried to introduce universal health-care before it was fashionable, but unfortunately Congress didn't approve.


To be honest, on policy, Clinton and Obama have few real differences, but where they do often it is Hillary who is on the more progressive side of them, most notably on health-care. Essentially, they're both New Labour-like.


Also, Obama is more criticial of free trade than Hillary, and that is a definite negative for me.

Unfortunately, Mrs. Thatcher gave female politicians a bad name but that shouldn't mean that any future female wanting to lead a country should be compared with her.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#24)

by jkitleft on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:03:41 PM GMT

Any Clinton legislation always got watered down, just to bump up poll numbers, even if they had already got the necessary votes. to be clear Obama has had to work with a Republican congress for 2 years, and the Clintons used this tactic in the first 2 years of a Democratic congress.

Universal-health care is not a Democratic principle. Not historically anyway, it has only become a principle in the last few months. Surely you would not have want to see William Jefferson in the White House, for not taking oppertunities given to him.


Kennedy is known for his skill of being bi-partisan, to forward liberal legislation.


If Clinton is the experience candidate, then we have to assume that this maxim is extended to the beginning of 1993, and even further back in Arkansas, rather than 2001, as this does not make her more experienced than Obama, who spent 8 years in the Illinois senate before 2005.


Noone is comparing her to Thatcher. What I did say was that her gender status should not be used to support her candidacy, as identity politics is one of the lowest forms of politics.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#25)

by bigpapi on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:15:31 PM GMT

Look, some people might not like to hear this, but the art of politics is to achieve what is possible; right now, universal health care in the US is impossible.

Firstly, the Democrats in the House of Representatives and Senate are not unanimously in favour of it; so-called "moderate" Democrats like Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana (if she isn't defeated in November) to name but four Senators would never support it. 

Secondly, as the Democrats are finding now, to get anything through the Senate you need 60 votes not just a simple majority.  Obama is sensible enough to realise that the Democrats are not going to have 60+ Senators anytime in the near future.  They currently have 49, and can rely on Independent Bernie Sanders (Vermont) and occasionally Joseph Lieberman (Connecticut).  If they have an exceptional night in November they can add Virginia, New Mexico, New Hampshire and Colorado to that list, with an outside shot at Minnesota.  Factor into this the 80% chance they will lose Landrieu in Louisiana, and they've still only got 54-55 votes - well short of the 60 needed to break a Republican filibuster.

Additionally, Obama has realised that many States are already introducing universal health care, led by Deval Patrick in Massachussetts, where everybody who wants to be covered should be covered by April.

Obama is proposing a package that he believes is the best that he can get into legislation, and can then be improved as it is seen to work.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#22)

by TonyHannon on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 02:36:07 PM GMT

His policy on striking Pakistan without hesitation (and without diplomacy) if Bin Laden is found there could have been adopted straight from the Bush doctrine.

"Without hesitation"? and "without diplomacy"? You're wrong or being purposefully stupid. He never said such a thing. That's why I'm a bit impatient with you.

He said he would act if Pakistan wouldn't or couldn't after having spoken to them. It IS already US policy - everyone agrees with action in that hypothetical scenario Biden, Edwards, Pelosi, Bill Clinton (circa 2004), Kerry, NATO - everyone. Clinton hasn't even said what she'd do because she used Obama's remark as an attack.

Clinton doesn't give a damn what Republicans think of her, and I like that.

Learn to unlike it - you're wrong. She voted to deem the Iranian Guard as a terrorist organisation (Obama, Biden, Edwards and Kerry voted against) out of fear of being portrayed by Republicans as soft on terror. She is acutely aware that she is a polarising force and that Republicans will be motivated to vote against her.

She has agreed to debate on Fox News and asked Obama to join her. Why would she do either of these things is she didn't care about Republicans?

I'm wasting time by telling you because you'll come back with another evasive answer - you're trying to win an argument rather than make a point.

I'm happy that we disagree but you are being willfully misleading or bullishly ignorant.


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Re: Barack Obama - Yes We Can (#20)

by TonyHannon on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:45:49 AM GMT

I know you're not ignorant. You have been ignorant on this one topic however.


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Barack Obama - Yes We Can | 25 comments (25 topical)