Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche

boriswatch Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:54:08 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

We hear today the news that the car of choice for red braces-wearing, filofax-toting, expense-account-bought-booze-quaffing stockbrokers, Porsche, are planning to take Ken to court.  They are fighting for their right to pollute more in London without paying for the privilege.



No question as to Ken's reaction, who has vowed to defend the new £25 charge on the most polluting cars.

But Boriswatch is waiting to hear from sometime Porsche driving Boris Johnson, who has rejected the environmental measure calling it "a big car tax."

If anyone wants a flavour of his views on Porsche, just turn to page 197 of the Boris Johnson classic, Life in the Fast Lane...

"it was cheering to be offered something as nakedly macho as the 911 Targa... my principle tribute is of course to the makers of the car... I salute not just their brilliance in creating an awesome engine, capable of taking you in very short order to a top speed of 177mph."

Perhaps Ken's campaign should have the last word...

"This issue shows the increasingly clear divide between Ken's commitment to taking the right decisions for London on the environment, compared to Boris Johnson who - like Porsche – opposes the policy to charge gas guzzlers £25 for driving into central London."

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Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche | 40 comments (40 topical)

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#1)

by alexswanson on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:29:11 PM GMT

 
Oh come on,  this is nothing to do with pollution, any more than the hunting ban was really about animal welfare. This is just class war again, and not any nicer for the hypocrisy used to cover it up.


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#2)

by dickwishart on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:00:27 PM GMT

I agree totally Alex


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#3)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:48:11 PM GMT

Of course you agree - you're both very right-wing!

Shame nobody else agrees with you. It has everything to do with pollution and anybody with a brain who doesn't buy into the 'man doesn't cause climate change' nonsense would see that.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#4)

by Group51 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:02:44 PM GMT

Absolutely agree NorthernMonkey.  I hope very much that DfT is taking note.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#5)

by Prbo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:20:01 AM GMT

It has everything to do with pollution and anybody with a brain who doesn't buy into the 'man doesn't cause climate change' nonsense would see that.

Ostensibly it appears to be about pollution, but the way it's been designed makes it anything but.  BMW appear to be making cars just below the emissions threshold, qualifying for the £8 a day rate, or 80p for residents within the zone. 

The truth is this is a blunt instrument - if it was truly about emissions, then there would be a sliding scale, not an arbitrary rate like this.

And btw, does anyone know how much emissions this measure will save?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#7)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 10:59:53 AM GMT

Surely you can see that it's better to have cars which are just below the threshold than well above it?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#9)

by Prbo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 11:59:27 AM GMT

yes and no.  Obviously if climate change is an issue, then the lower the emissions the better.  But it's a blunt instrument, rather than tackling fuel-usage and miles covered.  A true environmental measure would penalise cars which drive more, not flatly taxing all cars regardless of mileage.  That's why fuel duty is one of the best ways of taxing carbon emissions.  A basic poll tax this it unfair - sound familiar...?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#18)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:31:50 PM GMT

Your system sounds far too complicated and would cost too much money. Not to mention it might be politically difficult to do.

No, I think this idea that Ken's come up with does the job perfectly. I'm sure once he secures a third term, he might look at new ways to tackle climate change after that.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#22)

by Prbo on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 09:43:13 AM GMT

That's really quite worrying NM.  I thought the idea was to reduce emissions?  You don't disagree that the £25 a day charge will not reduce emissions.  So why disagree that it's a good idea?

If the imperative is reducing carbon emissions, then surely complication and cost is not a valid excuse.  It almost seems like your green credentials are simply a vehicle to further your political agenda and prejudices. But I'm sure that's not the case and you'll be happy to demonstrate your commitment to saving the planet admirably.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#10)

by Prbo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 12:41:41 PM GMT

you're both very right-wing!

Which, as we all know, means they're inhererently evil, naturally.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#19)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:32:30 PM GMT

You joke, but for many right-wingers that sentence is perfectly true.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#23)

by Prbo on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 09:46:36 AM GMT

Any proof for this?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#29)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:34:01 AM GMT

Take the Conservative party's voting record on gay rights over the past 20 years.

Everyone knows they're the nasty party.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#12)

by alexswanson on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:14:52 PM GMT

<i>you're both very right-wing</i>

 

I just follow where reason, evidence, and respect for human rights leads me. If that is towards opposing socialism - and it is -  that's your problem, not mine.

 Let me assure you, there are lots of things I would rather be doing than debating on here. I do it because as a godd citizen it's my duty to do so, in the same way that a doctor who discovers a virulent infection of which others are unaware has a duty to fight it.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#14)

by CitizenAndreas on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 03:55:09 PM GMT

Funny that, because I also follow where reason, evidence, and respect for human rights lead me, and that's towards socialism.

Funny that.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#17)

by Prbo on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:31:39 PM GMT

Well done you.  I also have the same concerns, and they lead me to the opposite political side.

Thank goodness for freedom of speech is what I say.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#13)

by dickwishart on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:46:41 PM GMT

"Very right wing," you don't even know me. "shame nobody else agrees," I presume from this that you have actually asked EVERYBODY else, of course you haven't.
Just because you happen to buy into the current fad of the left & green that its all mans fault thats causing so called " climate change" do not presume to speak for the rest of the population, we are all quite capable of making up our own minds.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see its a TAX pure and simple.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#20)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:37:37 PM GMT

It is a tax pure and simple - I don't believe anyone has said it isn't. But it's a tax which most people are quite happy to see in place.

And Dick, you're entitled to believe that man doesn't cause climate change, but that doesn't mean you're right. You're entitled to believe that 2 + 2 = 5 if you want, but I'm afraid that doesn't mean you're right either. When the vast majority of the scientific community agree that climate change is caused by man, I think I'll side with them, over you Dick.

And clearly it isn't just a "fad of the left" since the leader of your own party (presumably you're a Tory) desperately goes out of his way to try and make the Tories look green!


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#25)

by dickwishart on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:47:45 PM GMT

"A tax most people are happy to see in place" of course the "people" were asked about this were they? NO. Its purely a class war tax that dear old Ken has dreamed up that has nothing whatsoever to do with pollution. Your wide ranging comments about what the "people" are supposed to think are in the same league as the clever pundits who keep saying "everybody remembers what they were doing when Kennedy was shot/ Diane died"
I've got news for you WE DONT.
If you are going to rely on what scientists agree, but not prove, good luck to you. I am of an age when scientists had clear evidence that Thalidamide was OK to use, we all know the results of that piece of science.

Yes I am a Tory but that does not stop me from disagreeing with Cameron or anyone else for that matter, I like to think I have an open mind not driven by bigotted political dogma as you seem to be.

Now doubt I will now be accused of being homophobic,zenophobic,little englander,racist (which of course always follows the others), have I missed out anything.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#30)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:41:24 AM GMT

You may well be all those things Dick. But perhaps not 'zenophobic' since there's no such thing. But 'xenophobic', perhaps.


Dick, the people of London will have the opportunity to express their approval or disapproval of Ken's policies on May 1st. That's how democracy works.

Dick, we expect Labour elected representatives to introduce laws like these - which tackle climate change and boost support for public transport. You're a Tory, so you wouldn't understand.

I suggest you stop moaning and just vote on May 1st for a party which opposes Ken's policies. I don't think you'll win though.



[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#35)

by dickwishart on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:00:15 PM GMT

Thats the way, no real reply just a petty minded response.
I would love to vote on 1st May, however as I live in Wales it may be a bit awkward.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#6)

by Timka on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 10:56:36 AM GMT

If all the heaviest polluting cars were banned from London, then it would help lower the UK's carbon output by approximately 0.001% apparently. 

If the scheme is self-financing and the polluter pays, then ok, but if this doesn't pay for itself we have to wonder wether the money might be better spent elsewhere to decrease carbon emmissions. Many commentators think that it will be prohibitively expensive to run, so we will have to see..


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#8)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 11:01:08 AM GMT

If all the heaviest polluting cars were banned from London, then it would help lower the UK's carbon output by approximately 0.001% apparently. 

The key word here being 'apparently'. Any evidence for this?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#11)

by alexhilton on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 01:08:14 PM GMT

What would be the impact on London's carbon output?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#26)

by dickwishart on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:50:42 PM GMT

World scientists say that climate change is apparently caused by man. Any evidence of this?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#31)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:44:03 AM GMT

Yes, lots. You've got a keyboard and mouse presumably? And you've heard of Google? And you still possess the ability to do things for yourself? (I thought Tories believed in individual responsibilty?)

Then click away, my friend!


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#36)

by dickwishart on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:02:10 PM GMT

yes, lots, youv'e got a keyboard and a mouse etc etc, why not do it yourself.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#37)

by dickwishart on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:03:42 PM GMT

Yes, lots, youv'e got got a keyboard and a mouse etc, why not do it yourself


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#38)

by CitizenAndreas on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 11:52:55 AM GMT

You quoted the statistic, the ball's in your court, not ours.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#39)

by dickwishart on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 06:32:45 PM GMT

An old saying "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" see comment No 31.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#15)

by champagnesocialist on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:11:32 PM GMT

I love this - the congestion charge being attacked by right wing Tories when philosophically it the ultimate right wing policy - allocation of scarce resources (roadspace in central London) by ability to pay rather than need.

 

Anyway anyone who owns one of those Potshces will have more than enough money to pay the charge - the cost is less than half a full tank of petrol.


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#16)

by Prbo on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:30:42 PM GMT

I don't think you quite understand what's being said.  It's not the congestion charge that's the problem - it's the claim that the £25 a day charge is for 'environmental' reasons when it's clearly not. 

I'll repeat my earlier point - why is there no sliding scale?  If it's about cutting emissions, then why is there no allowance for how much cars drive?  How is a blanket tax on all cars, regardless of their mileage, going to seriously cut emissions?


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#21)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:41:56 PM GMT

Wake up prbo - of course it's about environmental reasons.


It will encourage people to buy cars with lower emission levels. That can only be a good thing.


You're clutching at straws now.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#24)

by Prbo on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 09:48:59 AM GMT

It will encourage people to buy cars with lower emission levels.

How? 


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#32)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:46:14 AM GMT

Erm..well how about the fact that people will know that if they buy a big gas guzzler they're going to face a whacking £25 charge every time they enter London?

I'm sorry that might have been too complicated for you prbo. Please let me know if you want me to slow a bit.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#33)

by NorthernMonkey on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:50:07 AM GMT

Why are crass individuals like Hugh Jorgan still allowed to post on Labour Home?

That post above is enough justification for a banning.


[ Parent ]

Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#40)

by Limony on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:02:11 AM GMT

Excuse me if I've got this wrong, but the subject of this story is BJ prefers macho to metrosexual cars. A car is a car is a car - a car that pollutes a lot but is rarely used is no worse than a car that pollutes less but is driven more. In addition, the problem with cars extends far beyond their potential to pollute. But back to this story in all its daftness. Calling a car 'nakedly macho' is to emply a larky metaphor to an object that is uncompromising in its appeal to a culturally and historically specific form of masculinity. I can imagine calling a 1980s mobile phone, a curry, a leather sofa, the decor of a bedroom and much besides 'nakedly macho' without meaning that I can see myself copying or advocating the style.

There is a genuine debate to be had about which candidates have the best transport policies for London, their attitudes to private car ownership eg in planning guidance, and so on. It does us no favours to be seen sniggering about every Boris utterance when we should be trying to influence the Labour candidate on transport issues.

When did it become a crime to carry a filofax, by the way? 


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#41)

by Jeremy on Mon Mar 03, 2008 at 05:27:23 AM GMT

Ken makes antisemitic comment and defends it with lie about former Chief Rabbi:



No wonder Boris is way ahead in the polls


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#42)

by Limony on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:19:47 PM GMT

Jeremy, were you at Hull?


Re: Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche (#43)

by rwendland on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:50:21 PM GMT

Here's a comprehensive trashing of Boris' travel policies here by a blogging transport pro: "Boris Johnson Is Clueless On Transport". Worth a (long) read. I like the comment on Boris' bonkers Routemaster II idea:
"Buying bespoke products instead of mass-production off the shelf items always costs a fortune, not just in up front costs but in full-life costs.  No one else is going to buy them.  Also, unless you get every manufacturer to produce one, you're not going to get the benefits of open competition." & "You'd think a Tory would know this."
(Yep, that is BlairWatch blog, but they have a good transport pro who periodically does excellent transport analysis.)


Boris backs "nakedly macho" Porsche | 40 comments (40 topical)