Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42?

Just over two years ago Tony Blair experienced his first Commons defeat. A healthy majority of 66 was turned into a 31-vote defeat on the key vote on the terrorism bill. Tony Blair, a prime minister who possessed impressive skills of persuasion, could not convince enough of his own MPs to back an increased limit of 90 days on the detention of terrorism suspects without charge, even with the vocal support of the chief constables.

Today's news sets the scene for the next battle as it appears that the government is pressing ahead with plans that would allow the police to hold terrorism suspects for up to 42 days before they are charged.

Where do you stand on this one? A necessary evil or a step too far?

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Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#1)

Why is it that in the US, they can make do with, what?, 2 days, or is it three. They must be at least as much of a target as the UK.


Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#2)

Good point by Bishophill.

Considering the government dragged the Labour Party through the mill to extend the time limit to 28 days and has yet to make use of the full 28 days, it seems a monumental act of stupidity to make public internal divisions in the Labour Party and create backbench rebellions which the rightwing press will have a field day with.

I hope the proposed extension of the time limit is defeated.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#3)

I don't support the proposed extension, but I would have to point out that there are 6 individuals who have been detained for an amount of time close to the limit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6729027.stm

The government has made use of the 28 day laws.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#4)

It must be 90 days. It takes that long to interrogate an encrypted hard drive with encrypted files.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#5)

Not in the US, it would seem.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#6)

Err....No.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#7)

So how come they find 2 or 3 days acceptable over there.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#8)

clearly you have not watched 24.....

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#9)

clearly you have not watched 24.....

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#11)

> It must be 90 days. It takes that long to interrogate an encrypted hard drive with encrypted files.

Ah ah, I spot a monkey argument.

In Guantanamo Bay, where they only have abaci, encryption takes 10 years to break. Ergo they must lock them up for 10 years there. Obvious and very reasonable.

Poll question poor (#10)

The poll question doesn't say "terror suspects"! I'm sure the voter for 90 days lock-up wasn't thinking of a shoplifter, which is what you should think of if you answer the question as stated. This confusion makes this poll useless as it stands.

Re: Terror laws - should it be 28 or 42? (#12)

This is my biggest gripe with the government.

The arbitrary and dilettante nature of this issue to date has been very disappointing. I don't know exactly how long the limit should be but I do know that it shouldn't be the longest of any democracy by a long way.

As far as I can see the arguments against it are crippling in that:

a) What little information the intelligence services and Police get from the Muslim community will dry up.

b) Extremists will point to the limit and everyone held under it as proof this country hates Muslims.

c) We’ve been here before with internment in Northern Ireland. The IRA had a recruitment bonanza.

d) They say they need 90 days for decoding encrypted files, based on what did they arrest them in the first place?


Why can’t that evidence be used to bring at least one charge? The law says that once they’ve been charged, Police can’t interview them about evidence and that’s why they need the extension but they should simply change that law.

If, instead of wasting billions on the ID card technology (which the civil service will probably mistake with ebay anyway), the government spent the money on new resources for the Police and border services decrypting files would be less of a problem. They might even catch other cross border criminals.

e) Tony Blair and now Gordon Brown say the Police have demanded this extra time. Since when did the PM listen to the Police? They also demanded that the Government didn’t go ahead with the new licensing laws and weren’t heeded.

f) The argument that terrorists use mobile phones and it takes ages to get info from handsets and servers is nonsense. Evidence comes from listening in to conversations and the bulk of that can’t even be used in court – why don’t they change that law? I’d rather they go through court orders to listen to phone conversations rather than court orders to lock people up.

g) Look at the opposition. Loads of Labour MPs, Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives (whom we’d traditionally associate with this type of guff), the HAC and JCHR committees and the former attorney general.

h) Although a long-term and cynical reason – this proposed limit, when exploited by the right-wing press (which it will be) and when used as a demonstration of Labour being anti-Asian will be very damaging for the Party electorally. Can you imagine the vast number of Asians holding Labour in the same contempt Irish people traditionally hold the Conservatives?

It’s already very difficult to make the case that New Labour isn’t ‘Tory-lite’ – this will make it almost impossible.

Finally, there are also the small niggling considerations that holding someone interminably without having the courage to charge them with something will completely ruin their lives.

Although it’s hard to argue against the government’s intention to keep us safe - there’s also the fact that this is a lurching incursion into people’s civil liberty. What people should always consider, but probably never do, is that this law means you! It’s unlikely that you yourself, personally will be held but, as I’ve said before, I’d rather be protected by the law of the land from such an experience than the law of averages.