Keith Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists

TMP Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 10:33:09 AM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

The head of Labour's Ethnic Minority Taskforce has renewed calls for the introduction of all ethnic minority shortlists. 



Commenting in the Guardian today, Vaz says "It's the only way we're going to increase representation. The fact is the party needs to do more. We have to ensure we get more black and Asian MPs into parliament at the next election. That means we have to positively discriminate in favour and have all ethnic minority shortlists. I think all three parties have failed."  Labour have selected just three BME candidates in safe or winnable seats whilst the Tories have selected six.  For more information log on to www.tmponline.org.

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Keith Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists | 18 comments (18 topical)

Re: Keith Vaz calls for all black shortlists (#1)

by NorthernMonkey on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 12:50:22 PM GMT

Don't normally agree with Keith Vaz (particuarly on his support for a Treaty referendum), but on this issue I think he's right.


We can't have a situation where the Tories elect more new ethnic-minority MP's than Labour. Positive discrimination is the only way to solve this problem. If we have AWS, then it really isn't too big a step to have all BME shortlists.


Re: Keith Vaz calls for all black shortlists (#2)

by swatantra on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:21:20 PM GMT

Bit late in the day Keith, we been saying that for months on Labourhome.


[ Parent ]

Re: Keith Vaz (#3)

by Radford Mann on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:21:34 PM GMT

A quote again from today's Guardian:


"Some ethnic minority activists were angered when the Walthamstow seat in east London, where a third of voters are black or Asian, had an all women shortlist imposed by the party leadership. Mr Vaz said there was a need for all-women lists, but said they had never produced an ethnic minority candidate: "Whenever there's a chance of getting another ethnic minority candidate in, an all-women shortlist is imposed. Look at Walthamstow; no black or Asian person has ever been selected from an all-woman shortlist."


Now, what's the real issue here?It seems to me that there is a strong implication from the quote that 'ethinic minority candidate' actually means 'male ethnic minority candidate.' Does this mean that black and Asian women either don't want to be active in the party or are prevented by men from being active in the party? If the former then the party needs to get to work to engage more with these women and then they can get in under AWS. If the latter, then I'm damned if I want to support moves which reinforce patriarchy among ethnic minorities.


Just for contrast, take a look at the Labour Group on Nottingham City Council. Both blacks and Asian groups have representation on the Labour Group that is higher than the percentage of the city's population for that group (for simplicity I have lumped together all 'Asian' categories although I believe all Asian Labour councillors are of Pakistani ethnicity). Black women are well represented. But look at the Asian councillors and, sadly, you won't find a woman among them.
I have posted elsewhere on Labour Home about the problem of defining what we mean by 'ethnic minority.' If the law is changed to permit all black shortlists it won't be long before the first legal case arises where someone seeks to prove that they are 'black' enough.


Re: Keith Vaz (#4)

by lastword on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:31:06 PM GMT

Interesting.  Happen to agree with you.  The problem is that their communities are not doing enough to promote good Black and (especially) Asian women.  How have we got to the stage where, for example, Walthamstow has no local BME women whatsoever putting themselves forward.  You're right that when Vaz says "BME", he means "Male".


[ Parent ]

Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists (#5)

by labourlondoner on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 02:35:39 PM GMT

I must say I have not heard anyone convincingly argue that you are less likely to end up with a female BME candidate with an all BME shortlist.


There is obviously an issue with AWS - they are not working for BME women.  They favour middle aged, middle class, white women - period. 


All black shortlists may work for BME women, so why not lets give it a try?  If men are habitually selected in all BME selections, then by all means lets go back to the drawing board, but why the presumption that BME women won't get selected with all BME shortlists including both genders?


It is rather to cheap to claim Vaz simply wants to promote black men.  If it is all BME, there is likely to be an altogether different dynamic in the selection which may in fact favour a good female BME candidate over a good male BME candidate.




Re: Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists (#6)

by Radford Mann on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 02:51:04 PM GMT

Sorry, clumsy phrasing on my part. I didn't mean to argue or imply that Keith Vaz himself is trying to promote only black men, but the quote from the Guardian does suggest that he recognises that where a black or Asian candidate is selected it is more likely to be a man.


[ Parent ]

Re: Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists (#7)

by lastword on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 02:59:27 PM GMT

Not in the Asian community as it stands...


[ Parent ]

Re: Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists (#8)

by repub on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:15:52 PM GMT

I don't think we should be criticising AWS for not delivering black women.

We have a situation where British politics has always been dominated by white, heterosexual men and this is self-perpetuating.

AWS are meant to raise the number of women in the PLP (hence the focus on winnable seats) and Labour is far ahead of the other parties, though with work still to do.

However I don't think we should be surprised that within the traditional culture of British politics, AWS has favoured white women more than black women.

But we have a more general problem of lack of black MPs whether men or women.

I think we should operate two systems, one of AWS and another of all-black shortlists (ABS). I think it would be massively controversial to operate both on one constituency but there may be a few cases where that would happen.

However i think it would be acceptable to run an ABS without gender limitations as it would still be addressing under-representation.

And though I may be wrong, someone earlier seemed to criticise a constituency for not producing the 'right candidates' which is not relevant i think. i'd be interested to know how many constituencies recently have selected someone who already lives/works in the constituency as their parliamentary candidate.


[ Parent ]

Re: Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists (#9)

by lastword on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:40:31 PM GMT

There was some talk a few months ago of 'hybrid' lists - a mixture of AWS and All Black shortlists together - i.e: All Women plus BME men.  I would like to see discussion of hybrid lists back on the agenda.


[ Parent ]

Re: Keith Vaz renews calls for... (#10)

by TonyHannon on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 08:53:03 AM GMT

Is there not a conversation to be had about how else the Party can attract BME men and women into the fold?

What about approaching members of the business community or leaders of pressure groups and philanthropical organisations etc?

When the BME representation issue comes up on this site (which it does a lot!) - selection lists are all we seem to talk about. 

If we're happy to approach Lib Dems and Tories in the "New types of Politics" - surely we can approach people from outside political circles.


Re: Keith Vaz renews calls for... (#11)

by repub on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 01:30:20 PM GMT

Approaching people to throw their hat in the ring and dealing with selection procedures are different things though...

It's not a problem of lack of BME candidates coming forward, the problem is the CLPs aren't selecting them.


[ Parent ]

Re: Keith Vaz renews calls for... (#13)

by swatantra on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 03:52:26 PM GMT

There's always a problem about approaching people, particularly from the business community, to stand as Labour candidates. you've only got to look at the recent episode of that turncoat Tony Lit. If they'd had the committment to Labour in the first place, they'd have come forward in the first place. I'm always suspicious of those people who as soon as they see the tide turning, would knife you in the back at the earliest opportunity.
No, I'm for people joining the Party, being a member for a few years and then trying for a seat on tnhe council or Westminster. Some leaders of pressure groups have more influence outside parliament and have their careers to think of eg Shami chakrabati an Philanthropic orgs tend to stay party neutral.


[ Parent ]

Re: All black shortlists (#12)

by SimonHH on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 02:26:58 PM GMT

How on earth would it be decided of someone was a BAME candidate? Would someone with one black parent qualify? A grandparent? It all begins to sound a little sinister.. In my area, I would imagine the group most likely to suffer racist abuse would be Eastern Europeans. Would they qualify as BAME? Scots and Irish people in parts of England perceive themselves as distinct ethnic groups. Would they qualify? The whole concept of BAME shortlists buys into the, already racist, idea that the human race divides up neatly into 'races'. In my view, the Labour Party was formed as a political expression of the idea that working people, of whatever origin or background, have a vast amount in common and should campaign for a better world together. Getting side-tracked into the cul-de-sac of identity politics is a rejection of this founding principle. There undoubtedly is an issue with sections of the community being under-represented in political office. The way to address that is from the bottom up: let's look at party and union recruitment strategies. By the time it gets to parliamentary selection it's too late.


Re: All black shortlists (#14)

by swatantra on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 04:05:53 PM GMT

Don't be silly, we are talking about people of colour, Black, Asian or those of mixed heritage, are the ones being overtly discriminated against. I think there are enough white Jewish MP's around, eg Michael Howard. And the Irish, Welsh and Scots don't any longer qualify as BME; there are enough of them around. There are a couple of Muslim MP's but no MP's of Arab origin., or Chinese MP's, although IDS is 1/8 Japanese and Boris Johnston is 1/4 Turk. so I think we'd have to go back to the third generation to exclude those people. Basically, it boils down to visable colour which leads to discrimination.


[ Parent ]

Re: All black shortlists (#16)

by SimonHH on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 09:13:26 PM GMT

 Using any number of trendy terminologies ('people of colour', 'mixed heritage') doesn't either answer my question about what constitutes a BAME person, or allay the suspicion of engaging in 'racial science' in the name of progressive politics. As I pointed out above, it is not simply 'visible colour' which leads to discrimination. Ask a few Polish people, or even Irish people.

 I refrain from commenting on the suggestion that we have 'enough' white Jewish MPs.


[ Parent ]

Re: All black shortlists (#15)

by repub on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 06:10:31 PM GMT

Simon this is the kind of nonsense they come up with in France.

There is a need to assess why BME people consistently fail to be selected. Why do you think it is?


[ Parent ]

Re: All black shortlists (#17)

by SimonHH on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 09:19:20 PM GMT

'The kind of nonsense they come up with in France' ??

 

It is simply untrue that CLPs 'consistently' fail to select people from ethnic minority groups. If your point is that parliament is unrepresentative of the general population then you are correct. And of course any democrat ought to want to see that addressed. I don't think, however, that racialised quotas are the way forward. What needs to be done? I'd start with looking at Party recruitment. And, of course, with continuing to struggle against racism in wider society.

 


[ Parent ]

Re: All black shortlists (#18)

by swatantra on Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 09:34:26 AM GMT

You're in a chickenandegg situation here. Unless minorities see that they have BME representation at higher levels of any organisation, be it the Labour Party the Police, or the Stock Exchange, they simply won't be inclined to join. So recruitment, increasing membership amongst BME communities, is a near nigh impossibility.


[ Parent ]

Keith Vaz renews calls for all black shortlists | 18 comments (18 topical)