Walthamstow kicks off . . . . Black men (again)

Whenever people talk about who the best candidate might be for a parliamentary selection, they talk up their local credentials. Black (African Caribbean) men have again been disenfranchised by the Labour Party with the decision to  hold an AWS in Walthamstow, following on from the AWS in West Ham, and the AWS in Hackney South.

Labour has just one male African Caribbean MP (David Lammy),  the same number as the Tories, and a whopping two African Caribbean women (Diane Abbott and Dawn Butler), yet Labour holds 18 of the 19 seats where African Caribbean's alone make up at least 1 in 6 of the population

[ Camberwell and Peckham - 35.2% - Lewisham Deptford - 30.2% - Tottenham - 28.6% - Vauxhall - 28.2% - Hackney South and Shoreditch - 27.8% - Brent Central - 25.9% - West Ham - 25.1% - Croydon North - 23.9% - Dulwich and West Norwood - 22.9% - Streatham - 22.3% - Hackney North and Stoke Newington - 21.8% - Southwark North and Bermondsey - 20.5% - Birmingham Ladywood - 18.6% - Edmonton - 18.6% - East Ham - 18% - Lewisham East - 17.7% - Leyton and Wanstead - 17.3% - Walthamstow - 17% - Lewisham West and Penge - 16.8% ]

No Black, Asian or Minority Ethnic woman has yet won an all women shortlist in a winnable Labour seat. Not one, in what 12, 13 years! NOT ONE. No business or public authority would be able to get away with a recruitment procedure that prevented BAME men from applying, without any improvement in the recruitment prospects for BAME women.

It is a disgrace that our Labour Party continues to implement just such a policy.

What justifiable criteria can there be for AWS in seats with high BAME populations like West Ham, Hackney South and Walthamstow, whilst at the same time having open selections in seats like Easington, Copeland and Normanton.

I am not here advocating All Black shortlists, because I think that it is important that local people should have the chance to represent their local communities. But that means local Black and Asian people too.

Nearly 40% of Labour MPs in London are women. No other major region comes close to matching this achievement. Nationally, we have just 3 African Caribbean MPs. 13 BAME MPs in total. Walthamstow should have been Open.

Since the NEC must be aware of this fact, their decision to exclude local Black and Asian men from Walthamstow must mean one of the following:

1/.  Addressing gender inequality is more important than addressing racial inequality

2/.  The Party just does not really care about increasing its number of BAME MPs, and is content to take the Black Vote for granted.

Enlighten me comrades, which is it?



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AWS (#1)

No Black, Asian or Minority Ethnic woman has yet won an all women shortlist in a winnable Labour seat. Not one, in what 12, 13 years! NOT ONE


I've always found it interesting..why do you think that  a BAME woman never won an AWS?

Re: AWS (#2)

Maybe a person's ethnicity is a greater barrier to their selection as a Labour Party candidate, than that person's gender.

In constituencies that are predisposed to select a BAME candidate in an open selection (Bethnal Green & Bow, or Brent South and  Brent East) they are just as likely to select a BAME woman [Ali, Butler, Quereshi] as a BAME man.

Re: AWS (#3)

That is the reason why we need all BME shortlists, as well as AWS.

Re: AWS (#5)

"Maybe a person's ethnicity is a greater barrier to their selection as a Labour Party candidate"

if it's just that, an AWS or an open shortlist wouldn't make a difference. If someone don't want to vote for a candidate just because he/she is back, he/she wouldn't do it regardless if the candidate is male or female.
Butler, Williams and Dixon-Fyle lost to Hillier in an AWS in Hackney South last time, I suppose they would have lost to Hillier in an open shortlist too, wouldn't they?

Re: AWS (#13)

Quite frankly, Andrea, I think that you willfully missed the point that has been raised. Whilst Butler, Williams and Dixon Fyle lost to Hillier in the AWS in Hackney South, there were local BAME men who were Councillors, or prominant members of the local party who could have beaten Hillier in an OPEN selection [Raj Jethwa and Cllr Julius for example]. Similarly, Terry Poll or Unmesh Desai might have beaten Lyn Brown in West Ham. We'll never know.

You will get a woman wherever you have an AWS, whether it is Hackney or Easington, but because BAME people are concentrated in relatively few urban seats, and being local is still an important criteria at selection time, preventing BAME men from seeking selection in urban seats where they have the benefits of local connections is wrong.

As I said, no publicly funded authority could justify this as a recruitment policy.

The Labour Party thought that promoting opportunities for women to enter parliament was important enough to legislate to bring in AWS. I am not opposed to the policy. However the way that it is currently being implemented is discriminating against BAME men.

If it is about meeting a quota, there is no reason why Copeland, Easington and Normanton could not have been AWS, and Walthamstow, West Ham and Hackney South have been open. Labour would still have its three extra women, but might also have an extra BAME MP as well.

Re: AWS (#14)

Quite frankly, Andrea, I think that you willfully missed the point that has been raised. Whilst Butler, Williams and Dixon Fyle lost to Hillier in the AWS in Hackney South, there were local BAME men who were Councillors, or prominant members of the local party who could have beaten Hillier in an OPEN selection [Raj Jethwa and Cllr Julius for example]. Similarly, Terry Poll or Unmesh Desai might have beaten Lyn Brown in West Ham. We'll never know

Frankly I think it's you that you were totally missing the point I made. If you think that an BAME man could have won in West Ham or Hackney South, it does mean that it is not just simply that the CLP is opposed to BAME people.
So if you think that the CLP may vote for BAME men, but they prefered white women over BAME women last time, what does it mean? That they thought the white woman was better than the BAME women in the race?
If you exclude that the CLP is opposed to BAME people in general (as you do since you think those CLPs could have selected BAME men), what does it leave? That BAME women are crap and can't beat white women and so we need open shortlist because just BAME men can win those seats?

I bloody hope it's not true and that there are other mechanism under the fact that BAME women don't win AWS selections

Re: AWS - Andrea's comments (#16)

Every parliamentary selection is different. Constituencies predisposed to vote for BAME candidates have no problems voting for BAME women. What other reason can there be for the fact that no BAME woman has won an AWS.

The implementation of the AWS policy can create more opportunities for women AND BAME candidates.

Re: AWS - Andrea's comments (#18)

I never suggested that BAME women have dropped the ball. I cannot remember when a BAME woman was the favourite in any AWS.

So why is it that when two equally qualified and able female candidates, one white, the other BAME, seek selection, the BAME candidate has not been successful. Ever.

No business or publicly funded authority could look at these results of its recruitment policy and fail to ask itself "Why?"

Labour should be no different.

Re: AWS (#20)

Actually I have found a recent BAME woman being selected in an AWS - Afyer Orhan in Hemel Hempstead.

Now it isn't exactly a Labour seat, but we only lost in 2005 and it only needs a 0.5% swing. 

Re: AWS (#15)

If its Meg Hillier you're talking about in Hackney then nobody would have beaten her; she stands out a mile.
I think she's a junior Minister now.

Re: AWS (#24)

I thought that the decision of whether to make a seat AWS was taken by the party at a regional level, and so there would not have been a trade off between, say, Walthamstow and Easington. In London, I presume that with two safe seats opening up (Walthamstow and Streatham), the plan was to make one of them AWS and one open - the choice was which one.

As has been noted, London has a better record of recruiting woman candidates (or at least in seats that we win) than others, so the solution to your challenge would seem to be for AWS decisions to be made centrally rather than by the regional party.

Re: AWS (#27)

Some people continue to have hopeless misconceptions about West Ham in 2004/05. We have a harmonious multi-ethnic CLP in a harmonious multi-ethnic community. Africans are the largest Ethnic minority and the largest part of the Africans are Ghanaians. There are three Africans on Newham Council, one Kenyan, one Zimbabwean and a Sikh from Kenya. This is a place where multi-ethnic means that you see signs in Polish outside shops run by Hindus.

I was in three nominating meetings and observed a fourth. Each nominated a woman of a different ethnic orgin and each nominated a woman of an ethnic orgin different from anyone in that meeting.

Many members very much resented outsiders suggesting that they ought to vote for a candidate of the same ethnic origin or faith as themselves. As for the candidates' views of their meetings with Operation Black Vote..........

In the end, the most obvious difference was between members who favoured apparently bright candidates with little experience and those who thought the first thing West Ham needed was a proven hard worker.

Quite legiitimate differences of opinion, actually. But I would dread to ask my neighbours to vote for a candidate who promised a surgery once a month. Fortunately I don't have to.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off (#4)

I think the time has come when we now do need all-BAME shortlists.


It wouldn't surprise me if the Tories have more ethnic minorities in the Commons next time around than we do.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off (#6)

The Tories have 6 BME candidates in 6 winnable seats  -including two African Caribbean men.  Labour has two candidates in two "need to win them back" seats - Ali in Bethnal Green and Bow and Mahfooz in Ealing central and Action.  Yes, you're right, the Tories will have more BME MPs in parliament than Labour at the next election.  The Labour party should be ashamed.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off (#11)

??

No they won't.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off (#12)

Yes they will have more NEW BME MPS than Labour.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off (#19)

That depends entirely on what the result of the next election is (if Tories gain 150 seats and Labour lose 150 yes they will have more new of everything).

But on current projections - no they won't.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#7)

 I am so fed-up with constituencies who short list candidates who they know have no chance of ever being selected, but because there has to be a woman and / or BME on a shortlist, they get put on it (usually it is an BME woman). It is insulting but they have no choice as it is forced on them by a naive NEC who are blinded by an agenda and care little for who it discriminates. At the same time, you get shortsighted and shallow people like Sian Loyd-Webber who feels able to question a person’s ethnicity because they dont look brown enough. The answer is simple, no AWS no BME .

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#8)

I'm not sure that short-sighted and shallow are entirely comradely descriptions

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#10)

 I am so fed-up with constituencies who short list candidates who they know have no chance of ever being selected, but because there has to be a woman and / or BME on a shortlist, they get put on it

Like Copeland last time where they shortlisted the former prostitute (who thought the Queen was part of a conspiracy against) her just because she was the only female applicant.
That's also due to how nominations work...if there's just 1 woman, she will obviously pick up all female nominations and so she would be automitically shortlisted because her nominations cover over 50% of the CLP

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . Copeland (#17)

If Copeland had been AWS, there would have been a rush of candidates from across the north of england; Councillors, Trades Unionists, public sector workers, all good quality candidates that deserve the opportunity to stand and represent our party.  We would still have got another strong able female MP. However, if West Ham had been open, we may also have got an EXTRA BAME MP

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#9)

I agree but you should have seen what I deleted.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#21)

I suppose this boils down to how important identity politics has become following the rise of postmodernism and the supposed failure of grand narrative projects. But we can get carried away and overdo the atomisation of politics. The case for increasing womens' representation in parliament is a strong one. Women make up half the population. Gender is also a clear biological marker; one is either male or female. Ethnicity is more complex. If we go for all BME shortlists, how minority does a person have to be to qualify? Both parents BME? One parent? One or more grandparents? Also there is the problem of copmpeting ethnicities. Should we have a quota for Asians, however defined, and one for blacks or afro-carribeans?


If we are going to debate the representation of minorities, then let's also look back to the founding of our party. It was set up to represent working class people and get workers into parliament. Sadly this is something that the massed ranks of the white collar, professional saliariat that dominate our party have forgotton. Perhaps we need all working class shortlists?

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#22)

"Perhaps we need all working class shortlists?"

I wouldn't have a problem with that!

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#23)

 I will second that.

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#25)

Would that be "traditional", i.e. your upbrining gets you on or is it "income"?

Do we go for Chav only shortlists, it might help in the south-east?

What about that massivily underepresented section of our community Gypsey + Travellors?

Re: Walthamstow kicks off . . . . (#26)

Alternatively do we think terms like 'chav', the trendy face of social snobbery, have no place in the Labour Party?