Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson

UNISON website explains how and why the elected UNISON Labour Link national representatives voted to support Gordon Brown and Alan Johnson
"UNISON is recommending that members back Alan Johnson for deputy leader of the Labour party.The education secretary got the nod from UNISON’s political committee at a meeting yesterday, which also brought a unanimous vote to throw the union’s weight behind Gordon Brown as party leader.“We need an election-winning team to face down the Conservatives,” said Labour Link chair Steve Warwick. “Despite policy differences, Gordon can win an election for Labour.”

Alan Johnson’s strong trade union links and “good ministerial record” in areas such as public sector pensions and on education support staff won him the committee’s vote.“He’s someone we can do business with,” said Steve, adding:“We will continue to use the hustings to argue our case for a change in policy direction.” 

Around half a million UNISON members are eligible to vote in Labour’s forthcoming leadership elections.Ballot papers will be sent out from 6 June, which will include the candidates' booklet and supporting nominations. The committee is also recommending members give their second preference vote to Peter Hain, the Northern Ireland secretary".

(grayee) I think the national Labour link committee realised that they had to pick the future prime minister and deputy leader who can defeat the Tories at the next election. Despite our differences in Labour movement family, we have to unite around winning candidates. There is simply no alternative for trade unionists to a Labour victory in the next general election.


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Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#1)

"Alan Johnson's strong trade union links and "good ministerial record" in areas such as public sector pensions and on education support staff won him the committee's vote."He's someone we can do business with," said Steve, adding:"We will continue to use the hustings to argue our case for a change in policy direction."

Steve Warwick's argument for backing the second-most Blairite deputy leadership candidate in total contradiction to Unison policy is so intellectually bankrupt and indefensible that it's not actually worth engaging with.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#12)

why are you afraid of a debate? Elected lay members up and down the country made this decision? Who are you, what union are you in and what right do you have to criticse this decision?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#2)

As a Unison member, I'm delighted by this.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#3)

I very much doubt the majority of UNISON mmebers share your profound joy.Our Branch chair, a UNISON full-timer, is spitting feathers.Disgraceful, pointless toadyism

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#6)

Why is it disgraceful, pointless toadyism when a Union backs someone you don't approve of, but it's a bold message from the grassroots when they back someone who agrees with you?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#7)

Because Alan Johnson is a politician who opposes all of Unison's key policies.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#9)

There you go again Jonesy: "all of Unison's key policies". ALL of them?

Simply untrue.

Is Unison not in favour of greater paternity and maternity rights and flexible working - or is that not what you'd regard as a key policy?

Is Unison not in favour of implementing the Warwick Agreement - or did that not contain any key policies?

Does Unison not support the increased investment in schools and hospitals - perhaps they've not been key policies?

Ensuring we have a better trained workforce, increasing vocational qualifications and exam pass rates - not a Unison priority, or just not a key one?

Why can't you appreciate the difference between fact and fiction: you may not believe that Alan Johnson - a former very effective Trade Union leader - agrees with all of Unison's policies and you'd probably be right but to claim he agrees with none of them is so palpably, obviously untrue that I really would be genuinely interested in finding out why you believe you're going to get away with making such comments?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#10)

Peter - yes, UNISON supports these policies pursued by the Government. As a result, it has seen no need to actively campaign specifically for policies which, after all, are being implemented. They are not the key policies that UNISON is campaigning for the Government to adopt.

Key UNISON policies include an end to privatisation and marketisation within public services, a Living Wage for public service workers and opposition to Brown's public sector pay freezes, the immediate restoration of the pensions-earnings link with no increase in retirement age, opposition to Trident and an end to the war in Iraq.

Furthermore, Johnson has previously called for the union share of the vote at party Conference to be reduced from 50% to 15% - thereby decreasing the voice of unions such as UNISON.

It's interesting that you regard Johnson as a "former very effective Union leader." Members of his union don't happen to agree with your assessment. As a result, delegates at CWU Annual Conference have just overwhelmingly rejected their Executive's nomination of Johnson and censured the Exec for doing so in the first place.

The fact is UNISON's bureaucratically manipulated LabourLink have nominated a candidate who supports policies which are detrimental to the interests of UNISON members. Accordingly, I believe that those UNISON members who pay into their political fund will (like CWU Conference) reject this absolutely scandalous decision.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#8)

Because Alan Johnson is a politician who opposes all of Unison's key policies.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#15)

What? - building Council housing, the 4th option? Jones (whoever you are?) what union are you in? what have you ever done as a trade union activist? What strikes have you been on or organised? what members have you defended from sacking or victimisation? what collective barginning have you done? What employment tribunals have presented? what right do you have to criticise real working class trade unionists?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#13)

is this person elected by members who actually pay the labour levy?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#4)

I don't think the hundreds of thousands of Unison members who went on strike last year are going to share your enthusiasm

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#5)

I was one of them.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#11)

I don't have a problem with UNISON backing Johnson. Most of my hostility has come from there not being a leadership election, but Johnson is being backed in a democratic election.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#14)

How do you know? Where you on at the picket line? if so where and if not why not?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#17)

If you must know - yes I did, and in fact handed out a batch of very well received Public Services Not Private Profit leaflets!

No, I'm not a member of UNISON, I'm a member of the T&G. My job for the past 2 years has been to work for a variety of unions lobbying for their interests in Parliament - for example, against legislation detrimental to their members interests (such as Alan Johnson's marketisation of education bill, for example), lobbying ministers and, occasionally, organising mass lobbies of Parliament. I've been responsible for running the Public Services Not Private Profit campaign, a joint-union campaign against privatisation which the UNISON leadership refused to join. This caused fury among huge numbers of UNISON activists, hundreds of whom joined our mass lobby of Parliament on June 27th 2006.

Incidentally, I believe that you know one of my closest comrades, Marsha-Jane Thompson, a dedicated activist who has been systematically harrassed by certain elements within your union because of the struggle of those like her to get UNISON to actually act on the policies it's committed to - e.g. by not backing an uber-Blairite deputy leadership candidate who supports completely contradictory policies to UNISON.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#30)

Hi Jones I apologise I didn't realise that working as a lobbyist made you such a working class hero. It fully justifies your views on Alan Johnson. See my other comment about real trade unionists not attacking the decisions of other trade unions. I now remember why UNISON didn't join your group.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#16)

Gray seems to be obsessed with jonesy's personal background. Does it make his opinions invalid if he isn't a UNISON member? Very childish.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#18)

I agree, but ironically, Jonesy's got form on judging people's arguements by a persons background.

The other day, when a (very polite) Tory turned up on the board to ask a few questions, he immediately said: "Just a suggestion, but could you maybe consider returning to wherever you came from? ... I'd personally prefer to eat my own leg than have a debate with a Tory."

Only a week ago, he declared that because Loz's opinions were "outside the normal parameters of Labour politics" that Loz's opinions on any given matter should be ignored.

I agree with you e10rifles, we should debate with anyone - arguments stand and fall on their own merit, not on the various other views of that those espousing them might have.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#19)

I stand by my opposition to Tories getting stuck in to a Labour-orientated forum.

As for Loz - I was merely standing up for AWB who pointed out that, given Loz's overtly rightwing stances (for example, supporting Sarkozy and Giuliani), his opinion on other issues should be taken with a pinch of salt.

John Gray was suggesting that I didn't have the right to comment on UNISON LabourLink's decision unless I'm a member of UNISON, which I think undermines the basic principle of solidarity in the labour movement.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#20)

To be fair, it wasn't Tories, it was A Tory and he was hardly "getting stuck in" - he was just talking about philosophic differences.

As for Loz - you did more that suggest that people take her comments with a pinch of Salt. The said that "calling into question the political judgment" of someone with her views was ok. You then went on to imply that she shouldn't be in the party declaring "have absolutely no idea whatsoever what a supporter of the Republicans is doing in a self-described democratic socialist party." - which was itself a misrepresentation (she only expressed support for one moderate Republican.

In your third point - I agree with you. Opions are right or wrong based on evidence, not on the other views and union membership of an individual.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#21)

Loz's recent comments have made JR look like a Marxist. Whoever she is , she shouldn't be in the Labour Party.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#22)

I genuinely do not believe that a supporter of overtly rightwing politicians such as Sarkozy or Giuliani should be in the Labour party and I do not believe that this is a controversial statement to make.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#23)

I do - here's why: it's not for you to determine who should or should not be in the Labour Party.

I might not happen to believe that somewhat with such unacceptable, damaging extreme hard-left views like you should be in the Labour Party: we might actually have far more effective public services if people like you hadn't fought reform every step of the way - but if you feel (despite your apparent deep unhappiness with pretty much everything the Labour Government has ever done) you want to belong to the party I wouldn't presume to assert that you have no right to belong to it.

It takes a unique form of arrogance to assert not only that someone having views on politics in another country that don't accord with your own should be excluded from the Party, but also that this is not a controversial statement to make. You're astounding, Jonesy.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#24)

Judging by the YouGov poll published on Sunday, what you describe as my "unacceptable damaging extreme hard-left views" actually place me in the mainstream of the Labour party - whether you like that or not.

What you describe as reform of public services (and what I call marketisation and privatisation) are opposed by the majority of party members and affiliated trade unionists.

Furthermore, I dispute that I am unhappy with "pretty much everything that the Labour Government has ever done." Labour members have supporters have rightly united around progressive policies such as the minimum wage, devolution, LGBT rights, the Northern Ireland peace process, the increase in investment in public services, the abolition of fox hunting, and Sure Start.

That is not to say that I don't think some of these policies have been undermined - for example, investment in public services has been undermined by PFI and marketisation; and the minimum wage should be both higher and without exemptions.

I stand by my comments in relation to Loz's support for Thatcherite politicians against Labour's sister parties in the Socialist International.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#25)

Yet again, you're talking about your narrow clique of activist members; I'm talking about how the country views your contemptable politics.

I'll take your word for it that you can find crumbs over the past decade you're not suicidal over - it'd just be nice to hear you say so a little more often (for someone who objects to Tories interfering here, the comments sections on most threads which you contribute to are far more anti-Labour than anything you'll find on Conservative Home).

The sooner you fix your broken time machine so you can get back to the Neanderthal period the policies you advocate would take the country back to the happier I'm sure we both will be, Jonesy.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#26)

"your narrow clique of activist members" is a funny way of describing the majority of Labour Party members.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#33)

Except we're not talking about a majority - on very few of the issues polled was there a majority for the retarded far-left position.

And even if we were, Labour members demonstrating yet again that they're completely out of touch with the mainstream of public opinion is hardly something to brag about.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#37)

don't say retarded.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#38)

don't say far-left either.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#27)

Narrow clique of activist members? The YouGov survey polled a cross-section of party members and affiliated trade unionists without consideration for the level of their activity. The people you are speaking with such contempt for are, in actual fact, the Labour party.

The fact that you repeatedly speak with such contempt for activists is, frankly, disgraceful. These are the people that spend significant portions of their lives sticking leaflets through people's doors and getting out the vote. They are the people on whom our party depends.

As for ConservativeHome - well, I wouldn't know Peter. A quick google search reveals that you have contributed to that website over 300 times so I accept that you are in a better position to know than me.

Finally, I would say this. I am friends with many people who consider themselves to be on the right of the party. They are not unpleasant people, and they avoid adopting a aggressive, bullying tone when they debate. This can not be said for you.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#34)

Jonesy, you think you can dominate websites like this by being abusive, vitriolic, unpleasant and dishonest about just about anyone who doesn't agree with you. You're not alone; your "comrades" like Grim also think they can impugn anyone who doesn't share your hard-left dogma. And now you've come across someone who can give as good as he gets - and you start whining about it.

Face it: you represent policies shunned by the public, candidates who can't even get themselves nominated - and if they do lose by embarrassing margins, and lambasts in the most unpleasant way for anyone who doesn't comply with your own retarded view of how a Labour movement supporter should behave.

In contrast, I just am utterly contemptuous of people like you. Apologies I lack the reserve to pretend otherwise.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#36)

Very abusive, vitriolic, etc. Well done. In whatever way the "hard left" represents any particular policies, those are policies which are ENDORSED by the public in opinion polls. And that a candidate supporting them failed to get nominated is a devastating indictment of why Labour MPs are so far removed from and not trusted by the general public. The Conservative and Blair eras have given us a rise in support for the far right, an increased danger of being blown up by religious fanatics, and a disgracefully low participation rate in elections. Congratulations to all concerned.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#40)

More unsubstantiated drivel from the hard left. The last time your policies were put to the British people was in 1983: you managed 28% for Labour, barely beating the SDP/Liberal Alliance and the worst Labour showing since the war - by far.

There's no evidence whatsoever that hard left policies have any mass support with the public - if there were you'd cite it.

In respect of your point about the far right: it's a matter of historic record that the far right tends to do well under Labour governments: the last time the NF was strong was in the late 1970s - they do not poll well when Conservatives are in power.

How do you believe the crazed left-wing government of your dreams and everyone else's nightmares would prevent us "being blown up by religious fanatics" other than by appeasing their every demand having stripped away every means we have of defending ourselves?

As for "disgracefully low participation rates" participation is higher when elections are closely fought. So I'm sure Blair will accept your congratulations - it's implicit acknowledgement by you that thanks to him three elections in a row haven't been close to being won by the Conservatives. Couldn't really say the same when your wing of the Party was in control, can you?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#42)

You don't think that the low result achieved by Labour in 1983 had to do with the Government's victory in the Falklands War, the fact that a section of the party had split and divided the Labour vote, and the fact that Labour was in a state of civil war with certain members of the party using every opportunity to publicly denounce the Manifesto?

As for the suggestion that we've not had closely fought elections - the percentage of the vote won by Labour in 2005 was the lowest of any winning party in the history of British democracy.

International terrorism has been indisputably boosted by the British involvement in the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The only time that Britain has been attacked by Islamic terrorists was undoubtedly the result of participation in this war - something which the vast majority of the British people believe to be the case.

If you want evidence of members of the public supporting left policies, I'll give them to you:

A majority oppose the privatisation of public services;

A majority oppose the war in Iraq;

A majority support an independent foreign policy

A majority oppose tuition fees;

A majority oppose the renewal of Trident;

The vast majority of Labour voters want better workers' rights;

66% of the populationsupport the renationaliation of the railways.

Oh look - the public are to the left of the government on a whole range of issues. Perhaps the next time you dismiss the mainstream of the Labour party as out of touch with British voters you might want to bear that in mind?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#43)

It's chicken and egg Jonesy: certainly I think that that the public actively wanted to re-elect Thatcher, but they just as actively did not want to re-elect Labour - and for all the reasons you list. But those reasons weren't the cause of the defeat; they were the effect of lunatics like you taking over the asylum: the SDP wouldn't have been created had you lot not dragged the party to the left, there wouldn't have been "a state of civil war" in the party etc. etc. But you know this - and even if you don't it's a matter of irrefutable record that Labour was nearly annihilated in 1983 thanks to the conduct and policies of your wing of the party. Which is why you've never been close to controlling it ever since.

In respect of closely fought elections, again you're arguing apples and pears: I never claimed Labour's share of the vote was the lowest for a winning party "in the history of British democracy" (though that is a load of bollocks) but instead that the last election was not close. The Conservatives won 199 seats (10 fewer than even Michael Foot managed to hang onto in your glory days) and Labour around 360. That to everyone except you is not a close result.

Then we get your usual diatribe of assertions about what the public believe framed in your usual absurd manner. But let's rattle through them again:

Privatisation of public services. First, the link you provided does not count as substantiation of anything: who conducted the poll? What was the fieldwork? Where are the actual results as oppsoed to a two sentence spin from a clearly non-objective organisation? Back to the classroom on that one, Jonesy.

Oppose the war in Iraq. No doubt they do now. Heck, even supporters of the war believe that massive mistakes were made. It's hardly a radical insight is it? Of course a majority backed it at the time the decision was taken, when it actually matters. And genuinely: if there had been the same media scrutiny and use of polls during WW2, do you not believe that at times there would have been public support for negotiating a truce. There was overwhelming public support for Chamberlain for his attempt to prevent the war; in retrospect he was a dupe wasn't he? You anti-war lot are the Chamberlains of our time.

Independent foreign policy. Well I support that too. So does Blair. It's what we have. Slag off America at every opportunity is actually what you believe. That's not what the public supports.

Tuition fees. Your source to substantiate this is a Guardian article of four years ago at the height of the debate before they were introduced. Risible. Where's your evidence the public opposes them now? And what's your alternative - because you won't find public support for those who never attended university paying more tax to subsidise those who do. Nor, I suspect, will you find public support for slashing the number of university places (not a leftwing cause that, anyway, is it?) to scrap fees that way.

Trident. Dear god - you think a poll commissioned by CND asking people to make an entirely false choice between funding schools and hospitals of funding Trident substantiates your claim that people are against Trident renewal do you? Seriously? More objective polling has found a small majority in favour of Trident, with men being significantly in favour and women significantly against.

Workers' rights. Again, ludicrous source and no substantiation of the claims but before you get on a high horse, I agree with "better" workers' rights, as I suspect do the public. What does that mean though. I suspect you mean the repeal of all the Trade Union legislation enacted by the Tories. No public support there.

Renationalisation of the railways. Another up-to-date source there: this one only three years old (incidentally, given that you cite it in your support what do you make of the finding it contains that 79% believe taxes should be cut or held at the same level - and how does that square with all your other high-cost plans?). And again, where's the equivalent question to your laughable CND one on Trident, stacking the cost of renationalising rail against building schools and hospitals? Some consistency, please, Jonesy.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#44)

Just for the record, and to help you out, here are some more recent, more objective polls on some of the subjects you referred to:

Iraq - September 2006 - actually "only" 50% support immediate withdrawal from Iraq - lower than Afghanistan, interestingly; but not a majority in favour of it. So wrong again Jonesy. At least they agree with you on views of UK relations with the US though - so what?

Trident December 2006 - 52% in support of renewal as I claimed above.

The NHS April 2006 - 83% think "it shouldn't matter whether hospitals or surgeries are run by the government, not-for-profit organisations or the private sector, provided that everyone including the least well off has access to care" - so much for your anti-privatisation claptrap

ID Cards - December 2006 - not one you mentioned but that sooner or later you'll claim the public supports you over. Again, untrue - majority support for ID Cards. Sorry.

Incidentally, not on any of the subjects you chose, but what do you think about this one: showing 76% supporting wider choice in education - essentially a vouchers system? Surely if the public supports it by such overwhelming margins it must be right - at least that's what your claim is on the subjects they accord with your views on...

And just going back to my earlier discussion with jkit, seems we're both wrong (at least in terms of public perceptions): this poll shows that the public don't feel that Britain is a nicer place than a decade ago BUT they do feel that we treat minorities better - including ethnic minorities.

So, do you see how it works: credible, independent, objective sources, rather than the skewed, dishonest, don't-say-what-you-claim-they-say, back-of-an-envelope examples you concocted?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#28)

The points I would have made have already been made. So I'll just say that when it comes to "contemptible" politics, your nasty, vindictive posts take some beating. We are many in the Labour Party. You, thankfully, are few. And getting fewer.....

Real trade unionists (#29)

...don't attack other trade unions. It use to be a basic act of solidarity that trade unionists do not attack other trade unions in a public forum. The ultra left who have attacked UNISON Labour Link over Johnson should really reconsider their position. By all means you can attack my politics, but if you really believe in trade unions, you should not be attacking the decision of another trade union. Sorry folks you are not proper trade unionists. No surprise there!

Re: Real trade unionists (#31)

Eh? What? I don't think that attacking the decision of LabourLink to choose a candidate who supports policies which are blatantly and undeniably detrimental to the interests of UNISON members is breaking an act of solidarity. I'm expressing my solidarity with UNISON members who are outraged by this unjustifiable decision - which is in stark contrast to Scottish LabourLink's position. To be honest, this attack comes across as borderline childish, don't you think?

By the way, John, I'd be interested to know what you think or know about the Redwatch-style attacks mounted on UNISON activist Marsha-Jane Thompson by elements within your union?

Re: Real trade unionists (#32)

Hi Jones It appears obvious that you do not know the first thing about trade unions. I repeat, real trade unionists do not attack other trade unions. I suspect that the real reason you are so upset is that for obvious reasons, UNISON refused to join your lobby group. I will do some digging and post something on your group. I would not respond to any comments about Marsha without her express permission. However, I would condemn out of hand any anonymous attack blogs. Not that it has bothered me in the slightest; there have been a number that have attacked me. I also think (but cannot yet prove) that there are "trojan horse" blogs set up to attack people in UNISON (and now Amicus) by the Ultra-left to try and discredit the centre left and pay off scores against ultra left "comrades".

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#35)

So many that your candidate for leader couldn't get nominated, your Campaign Group is likely going to be halved at the next election; your union is backing Brown and Johnson, your Deputy Leader candidate is going to lose and you fail to get any of the lunatic policies you espouse implemented by your own government.

Yes, you're really powerful and relevant Grim. I bow, quivering in deference at your supremacy.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#39)

who's grims deputy leadership candidate? Grim was supporting Hilary benn, who as we know is an ultra-left, marxist, communist, socialist, loony-left, bleeding heart, far-left, liberal, hard-left member of the SWP

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#41)

That was a collective "you" - given that Cruddas has suddenly become the darling of the far left.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#45)

no, you said that one of the deputy candidates was the canidate of the campaign group. Find me the candidate. You told Grim that her candidate would never get in due to lunatic policies. What are some of Hillary benn's lunatic policies?

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#46)

No I didn't say that. The only reference to the campaign group was that it's going to halve in size at the next election on current trends.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#47)

'your Deputy Leader candidate is going to lose' was used in the sentences describing UNISON's endorsement of the right of the party, and how 'lunatic' policies of the left wouldn't get implemented by a Labour government, therefore making the statement about the deputy leader candidate, look like a reference to one of the deputy leader candidate's taking on 'lunatic' policies, and since Benn is her deputy candidate, this makes Hillary Benn seem like the kind of person who would never get their 'lunatic' policies implemented by the government.

Re: Why UNISON backs Brown and Johnson (#48)

sorry for repeating myself, but you did say Hilary Benn was going to lose.