Tories admit they can never beat Ken

Gregg Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 06:54:41 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Breaking news on London Tonight this evening: The Lords has amended the GLA bill to limit the Mayor of London to two terms.



Yes, our completely unelected Lords want to prevent the elected Mayor of London running for re-election. According to ITN, this has been orchestrated by the Tories and the Lib Dems, so seems like an admission by both parties that they can never beat Livingstone and their only hope is to stop him running and hope whoever else Labour finds isn't as popular or competent. The people behind this, from Cameron on down, are making themselves look like a bunch of useless cowards, and I don't think Londoners will forget that.

Related to this, some shocking bias from ITN. The only politician they had on to comment was Tory Brian Coleman. And reading out e-mails at the end, they claimed they'd only had one criticising the Lords over this - I e-mailed them to criticise it and I know several friends did as well.



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Tories admit they can never beat Ken | 41 comments (41 topical)

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#1)

by otware on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:01:00 PM GMT

Poor Ken. Whatever he does the Tories always find a way to ruin it. They realise they can't win against him, so they abolish his post or change it so that he can't stand.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#2)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:28:56 PM GMT

Typical Tory tactics yet again. Ken will easily win the 2008 election and they know it.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#10)

by swatantra on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:43:03 AM GMT

On the contrary, the Lords are doing Ken a favour. It'll all end in tears and Ken should go out on a high. If he were to win a third term, I can guarantee it would go pearshaped. It always does, especially when people start believing their own propaganda that they are Gods gift to the human race and are indispensible. Thank you Ken; you've done a great job for London, but let someone else have a go and bring in some fresh new ideas.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#16)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:46:15 AM GMT

Really? I can't see it going pear-shaped myself. He'll win next years election and the next one after that will be in May 2012 - surely London will vote in Ken one more time for the Olympics (providing he hasn't made a complete disaster of it!)?


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#28)

by CockneyLad on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 07:34:31 PM GMT

Ken isn't Tony. Ken has done wonders for our city. It isn't the same place as it used to be. People are proud to be from London because of what Ken has done. I can't see a third term going pearshaped.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#3)

by Lorin on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:29:24 PM GMT

I sure hope this doesn't get implimented.

Tories and Libs are a bunch of cowards, I don't think this will pass, however, there are some MPs waiting to backstab Ken.

Ken is the best mayor London could have and has made London such a better place.

However, Londoners will be up in arms (I sure will) if this goes ahed.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#4)

by jkitleft on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:51:02 PM GMT

We shouldn't have term limits. What is means in USA, is that you just get lame-duck presidents (although I'm glad it restricts Bush to 2 terms), in the words of Jed Bartlet 'We have term limits, they're called elections'.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#5)

by Glass House on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 07:53:36 PM GMT

absolutely disgraceful


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#6)

by visitingtory on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:21:42 PM GMT

I'm not going to outright defend this move as it does seem to look like an attempt to unseat Livingstone BUT as http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=462863&in_page_id=17 70

shows he's hardly committed to democracy himself. These appointments are not his role but the roles of the other parties and I hope to see legal action against Livingstone to ensure that the Conservative and Lib Dem appointments get through.

And ITN biased? Well, perhaps it might go some way to correcting the longstanding leftwing bias in the BBC.

So yes, a silly idea which won't work (and won't get through unless Labour hate him as much as we do...?). But no sillier than Livingstone's own ramblings.

Cameron should be busy getting Coe or Portillo to run as they could win; then we could take the moral high-ground and point out Livingstone's abuse of democracy, anti-semitism, annoying political correctness and much more...instead he's letting a old left-wing relic scare him. Doesn't bode well for the future.

-VT


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#7)

by Glass House on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:39:15 PM GMT

Regardless of whether you love or hate Livingstone - the representative of London should be whoever the people of London want.

Anything legal questions on appointments are a matter for the courts and any of his views are a matter for the electorate. His removal from office should be in their hands. 


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#8)

by Lorin on Tue Jun 19, 2007 at 08:49:53 PM GMT

Don't call Ken an anti-semite because he isn't, as a Jew I found nothing offensive to Jews in what he said to that tosser Finegold, who ran a campaign against him and was following him.

I don't agree with some of the things he does but I agree ethnic minorities need to be represented more.

Do you really think Portillo or Coe have a chance?
Lord Arch-hole had more of a chance.

Londoners will never forget the tory years.

Talking about rambling, your party has nothing to offer London, you opposed the congestion charge, you want to take away free travel for youth in education and don't want to give people living wage?
Why should Londoners vote for you?


I don't see any left wing bias in the BBC, I could even argue that there is a right wing bias.



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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#9)

by visitingtory on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 08:20:18 AM GMT

As VT comes from a family with many Jewish members, VT reserves the right to make his own judgement on Livingstone's comments and reserves the right to conclude that they are anti-semetic. (Not the initial comment but the response when Finegold said he found KL's remark offensiv because he was Jewish.)

If you take a look at Livingstone's statement about the fire authority nominations you will note that he has accepted only Labour's nominations and the Green Party / One London nomination - with the end result that women/BME AMs and Cllrs are actually over-represented. Some of the Conservative candidates were from very broad backgrounds, including a gay member, and it's very sad KL didn't recognise that. I hope that the Conservatives and Liberals completely ignore KL and plough on regardless.

I think Coe in particular (Olympic bid) had an absolutely fantastic chance. He's popular and assertive. Portillo would connect with London well.

Yes we oppose the Congestion Charge and in my opinion, rightly so. It is a great problem to local businesses and should be reconsidered to help trade.

If the Labour Government is so fantastic why isn't the minimum wage a living wage?

And I don't see any reason why a child from a high-earning background travelling some distance to a school should receive free transport. Everything costs money and unless taxes keep going up as % of GDP not everything is affordable.

-VT 


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#11)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:57:12 AM GMT

So let me get this, you want to introduce a "congestion" air tax, yet you are opposed to congestion charges?
But you don't even give a damn about that(read my Vote Blue, Go Flying post)

The living wage is a London living wage, I think the minimum wage should be 7.50, but you opposed the 5.35 minimum wage and you oppose this one.

Let me give you an example:
A family from Bethnal Green and Bow, both parents get payed the minimum wage, they have a bright son who got a grant for a school in Westminster.
They would have to pay about 400 pounds a year on transport, now they don't have to.
But then again you tories never gave a damn about working people or public services.

I thought Ken's comments were not anti-semitic, and right-wingers like yourself like to use them as propaganda against him.
And the courts didn't find those comments anti-semitic either.

Ken will win, you know it, Libs know it, and Portillo or Coe won't win.
I would like to see Arch-hole run again but he can't because he is a con.(well a con and an ex-con)


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#12)

by visitingtory on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 10:50:39 AM GMT

I didn't say I opposed subsidies for poor children's school transport, I said I opposed universal free school transport. Bit of a difference there. So your BG&B family would be OK.

I see no comparison between the air tax, which is based on emissions levels rising, and the congestion charge, which is to allow KL to wage a war on the motorist and make unsustainable investments in his public transport network. Which gives him more control over London, basically what he wants.

And a £7.50 minimum wage? Wasn't that a McDonnell policy? Entirely unworkable. It's sort of a rallying cry to businesses to leave the country, so as far as our international competitiveness goes...it's a dying wage. 

Incidentally why do you want Archer to stand? 


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#17)

by donpaskini on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 12:37:17 PM GMT

If the living wage is such a rallying cry for business to leave the country, why have KPMG adopted it, and now send reps out to say about how good it has been at reducing staff turnover and absenteeism and boosting productivity?

I grew up in London, and the congestion charge has made a massive positive difference, as has the investment in public transport.

That's the great thing about Ken.  Everyone hates him and his policies, except for the majority of Londoners.  That's why the Tories can't find a candidate and are trying to change the law to stop him running.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#18)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 01:21:41 PM GMT

You say 7.50 is "Entirely unworkable", but that is what you tories were saying about the 5.35 minimum wage.

I would like more powers for Ken, I would like him to put the transport in London under public ownership, as would most Londoners.

I want Arch-hole to stand because I want to have a laugh.

Here's him on mastermind: 
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aSwAbaAaS7o


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#19)

by visitingtory on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 02:04:30 PM GMT

It's a 50% (more or less) increase. It's starting to get towards a system whereby pay for any standard-level job masses around the same point, so it's not a safety net, more social engineering. £7.50 would mark a grotesque assault on the free market - it's the point where the Government would be actively embracing socialism. And if they want to do that they can go to the public with a socialist manifesto, and watch as the Conservative majority rolls in.

Too much power vested in the hands of one man from any politcal persuasion is very dangerous indeed. You say you would 'like more powers for Ken' - what if KL loses the election and Brian Coleman, say, became Mayor? Would you welcome the fact that the new powers could be used by Coleman to make vast changes that you would disagree with? 


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#20)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 02:35:24 PM GMT

First: In 1983 we had a manifesto that was even too left wing for my taste, yet we had 10.5 million votes, even though we lost, In 2005 we had 9 million, and the population then was much smaller.

Would you work for 5.35 per hour?
I would give workers better protection and better living standerds at 7.50.
But I doubt Georgie Osborne even gives a damn about working people in this country.

I think Coleman has a fat chance of becoming mayor, and I still think he should have some greater powers on issues such as transport, buses and the tube that is.
The majority of londoners were opposed to the privatisation of the tube in 2000, they voted for Ken, Libs and I think even Dobson was against it, so they should be able to decide on these issues, and I'm in favour of holding a referendum on this issue, and you will see the support on these issues


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#21)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 02:38:04 PM GMT

"I still think he", * He being the mayor 


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#22)

by Glass House on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 03:29:34 PM GMT

The "we got more votes in 83 despite losing than we got in 2005" arguement is spurious.

Thatcher got even MORE in 83. Does that mean that the path to victory is to be more Thatcherite? Of course not.

These ridiculous statistical backflips make me crazy.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#23)

by jkitleft on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 04:06:16 PM GMT

well, the public is in favour of re-nationalising the railways.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#24)

by Glass House on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 04:25:37 PM GMT

Maybe so, but how many of those people care enough about renationalising them for it to be decisive to their vote?

And how does that number compare to the number who would be scared off voting Labour by the huge cost and the "Labour nationalisation shows it is lurching left" spin that would be rolled out by our opponents?

It's almost certainly a net vote loser.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#25)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 04:53:54 PM GMT

Well talking about London: Most Londoners were against privatisation, both Ken and the Lib Dem candidate were against it, rightly so because ticket prices have risen.

Most of the travelling public want the railways to be under public ownership (people were very angry with the decision to re-privatise GNER and Northern Rail in 2003)This (ptivatisation) is a tory policy which most party members are opposed to and indeed voted for public ownership in the conference 2004.

People didn't seem so put off when we nationalised Railtrack and all the other companies and created Network Rail.

Since privatisation ticket prices have risen by 53%.

It makes financial sense to have public ownership, just as South East Trains was, yet the government still privatised it.

Private companies are making millions in profit, recieve large subsidies from the government, larger in fact than the sums BR received, and deliver a much worse service.

It's not a left policy, indeed public ownership of the railways is a policy supported by Peter Hitchens was supported by Edward Heath and even Maggie said it was a "privatisation too far", so I wouldn't label it left wing.

Glass do you agree that the railways are in a bad state?


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#26)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 05:26:20 PM GMT

In addition (just for the record) in 95 Prescott said: " there will be a publicly owned, publicly accountable railway under the next Labour government"

And in 97 Blair said "They will be run for the public, and they will stay in public ownership for the people of this country".


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#27)

by Glass House on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 05:34:10 PM GMT

This is really is the worst side of the Labour party. How many times have we gone over the subject of nationalising the railways here?

When was the last time I heard anyone other than a political obsessive discuss the topic? Never. Ever. In my 26 years on this Earth I have never heard anyone who isn't active in politics mention this subject. Not once.

I really despair sometimes.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#29)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 08:21:01 PM GMT

I think you make a fair point. Putting forward a policy to renationalise the railways is more of a vote-loser than a vote-winner and it would be silly to think people really care that much about renationalising them.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#30)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 08:25:12 PM GMT

I addmit we have debated this issue many times before, it's getting rather annoying.

We have moved from the topic, so now would be a time to move back to the topic before we get into another long and boring debate.

I can be quite obsessive, I just care about this issue.

How about a real live debate sometime?


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#33)

by jkitleft on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:59:41 PM GMT

Well i've spent 15 years on this earth, and all I hear is people complaining about public transport. This has often led to discussing renationalising the railways.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#34)

by Lorin on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 10:03:56 PM GMT

True,
It's good to see i'm not the only 15 year old on Labourhome!


[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#41)

by swatantra on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 05:14:58 PM GMT

I can't believe jkitleft and AWB are just 15 years old! So our educational system hasn't been a complete disaster.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#36)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 04:21:24 PM GMT

People would moan about public transport whether it was nationalised or privatised, good or bad - that's the nature of the British public.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#37)

by Lorin on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 04:33:46 PM GMT

Its just more expensive and less eficient  under private ownership.
Oh and gets more government money.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#38)

by jkitleft on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 05:02:55 PM GMT

Ironically the cost of transport was less when the trains were nationalised.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#39)

by NorthernMonkey on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 12:39:10 PM GMT

I disagree with regards to efficiency - it was less efficient in the old days. It's also good that more government money is being put into the railways - god knows it needs it.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#40)

by Lorin on Fri Jun 22, 2007 at 02:12:35 PM GMT

I don't think that is the case, however, the Major and Thatcher administrations starved it of funds.
If the money that is spent by the government on transport would have been put into a public owned company we would have one of the best rail services in europe.

I read these reports in the times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1969212.ece

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1969213.ece

Its a disgrase.

Its cheaper in many cases to go by car than by train, this is not what we should be doing if we want to encourage people to stop using their cars.



[ Parent ]

Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#35)

by Gregg on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:16:39 PM GMT

"In my 26 years on this Earth I have never heard anyone who isn't active in politics mention this subject. Not once."

You obviously don't catch the train much, then. I've heard it very often, sometimes twice a day.


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#13)

by Mark Wadsworth on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:18:48 AM GMT

I agree with what Glasshouse and others say.<p>

Red Ken was democratically elected twice (albeit a small majority on a small turnout) but hey, that's democracy.<p>I will almost certainly not vote for him, but so what? It's a free world and he has as much (or more) right to stand as anybody else.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#14)

by Mark Wadsworth on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:20:21 AM GMT

How do I do paragraph breaks? The old p inside 's doesn't seem to work either.


Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#15)

by Glass House on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 11:36:02 AM GMT

I think we're back to the old sytem - just leave blank lines in your post.

..see


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#31)

by Mark Wadsworth on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 08:34:00 PM GMT

Thanks.

Like this?


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Re: Tories admit they can never beat Ken (#32)

by Glass House on Wed Jun 20, 2007 at 09:16:14 PM GMT

Yes

 

just like that 


[ Parent ]

Tories admit they can never beat Ken | 41 comments (41 topical)