Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland

repub Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:25:53 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

From the BBC today...



"It is highly appropriate that on the 100th anniversary of the first ever Labour Party conference which was held in Belfast, we have seen moves to re-establish the link between Northern Ireland and the rest of the party.

"We had a ridiculous situation in the party where people in Northern Ireland could not even join Labour," Mr Johnson said.

"Thankfully the party has allowed Northern Ireland members to join and under this deal they can participate in conferences and decision-making bodies.

"However, I think an unstoppable momentum is building up which will see party members here, in the not too distant future, being able to contest elections."

Considering we have historically had a position in support of Irish unity by consent, do others think what would be a fundamantal shift in favour of the union with Britain should be decided by legal threats from disgruntled individuals or by party members debating this major issue?



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Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#1)

by fluffymike on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:14:22 PM GMT

Totally agree with you - this sort of Unionism by proxy is going to do nothing to help the people of the North work together to develop their own future.
The people need to be able work together and develop their own organistations to represnt their aspirations and policies - anyone joining a party of the British mainland will instantly be seen as a unionist - it will certainly not aid working class unity and struggle.


Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#2)

by otware on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 12:00:38 AM GMT

The Labour supporters in N. Ireland should rally join the SDLP, who are allies in the Socialist International and Party of European Socialists.


Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#3)

by jonesythered on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 12:18:17 PM GMT

And unfortunately apparently likely to merge with the rightwing Fianna Fail party in the South...


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Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#4)

by otware on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 12:41:03 AM GMT

What?? Why would they do that? Surely they'd merge with the Irish Labour Party if they were going to do any merging...what are they thinking?


[ Parent ]

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#5)

by fluffymike on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 07:28:48 AM GMT

That if they're going to merge with anyone it might as well be the party that always wins?


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Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#6)

by otware on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 11:18:03 AM GMT

But surely there'd be an ideological clash.


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Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#7)

by fluffymike on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 11:28:13 AM GMT

I don't think ideology works in Ireland the same way as in most countries! The parties are split on different grounds dating back to the civil war, and even the SDLP hasn't really got what you'd call a cohesive left/right platform.
There are middle class SDLP supporters who would balk at anything remotely leftish, whilst there are left wingers in Fianna Fail who's families have been in the party for generations!


[ Parent ]

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#8)

by otware on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 11:42:53 AM GMT

Ha that's crazy.


[ Parent ]

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#9)

by jkitleft on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 11:56:15 AM GMT

One of the party's is split between the social democrats and the christain democrats (I think it's Fianna Gael)


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Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#10)

by repub on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 02:53:10 PM GMT

The two main parties in the South are divided on the basis of their line in the 1922-23 civil war. Fianna Fail, the biggest of the two, opposed the partition, and Fine Gael supported it. Irish Labour was marginalised at the time because it didn't want to be a diversion when the main issue was achieving the republic. However Fianna Fail has a major working class constituency and is much more successful than Irish Labour which must attract the SDLP. Also, bear in mind that Fianna Fail often send members to canvass for the SDLP in order to beat Sinn Fein. There is an odd project doing the rounds which suggests BRitish, Irish Labour and the SDLP forming an 'NI Labour Forum'. SOunds bonkers to me. There should be an all-Ireland democratic socialist party. At the moment the only one offering that is Sinn Fein as both Irish Labour and the SDLP recognise British partition.


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Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#11)

by otware on Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 07:41:43 PM GMT

As a sort of outside observer of N. Irish politics I side with Irish republicans. However, recently the SDLP has lost a lot of ground to Sinn Fein which leaves people in support of Irish republicanism in a difficult position. The SDLP will probably never be the main republican party now. So do we support Sinn Fein because they are the party best placed currently to deliver republicanism? But then again, Sinn Fein is rather dodgy...but they are quite left wing...


[ Parent ]

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#12)

by fluffymike on Mon Jun 04, 2007 at 09:46:03 AM GMT

The SDLP has never been a 'republican' party. And Sinn Fein are moving towards a less radically Socialist platform the closer they get to govt...
There are actually elements within the DUP who have strong left-wing positions, but as the North's parties are even less traditionally left/right aligned than the South's it's hard to tell what social policies will come from whom. In the event of a United Ireland, I beleive you would see a SDLP/FF merger taking the role of New Labour. FG/Alliance and whatever's left of the UUP forming a Tory style merger. The DUP staying as a UKIP style rump possibly swallowing the PDs en route - but obviously bigger than UKIP. SF would become the equivalent Left Wing party with some breaking off to join the FF/SDLP party.


[ Parent ]

Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#13)

by Belfast on Wed Jun 06, 2007 at 12:22:23 AM GMT

A number of assumptions are made in these posts about the motivations of Labour Party members who living in Northern Ireland. I am one, and I will and can only speak for myself in responding to them. I am glad the party structures are realising that Labour's policy of exclusion does not stand up to equality legislation and has now agreed to enable members living in Northern Ireland to start to play an active role in party life. It seems strange to assume that it is innapropriate to use legal processes to ensure equality is applied. This seems seems strange, nay bizzare coming from the keyboards of subscribers to this blog. Indeed the implication that threatening behavior has been used in exercising a right frankly seems a tad ludicrous to me! A wrong is being put right in a reasonable and measured way. A second assumption has been made that this is Unionism by stealth. My political identity is based on Social Democracy. Social Democracy, its application locally and globally are important to me. Despite thier name and membership of Socialist International I do not find my political home in the SDLP ( I tried) because the politics of the SDLP do not always stand up to this identity. To me the SDLP is a broad church of people defined as Irish nationalists firstly, and secondly, their identity leans either to the centre left or the centre right. I do indeed, like many others in Northern Ireland, feel my politics is orientated to this region, a part of the UK, within the EU. It is wrong to define me as a flag carrying Unionist. Labour in the UK feels like home and indeed 15 years ago whilst living in England it was my political home. Having worked in apolitical but socially progressive organisations in Belfast since then, now I want to be politicaly active as well and reinstating my Labour activism therefore is natural. I accept that the effect of the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement has been to offer unity by consent, but it equally also acknowledges the continued status of the union, by consent also. As I aspire to a strong centre left government in power in Stormont, I have sympathy with the idea of a Labour Forum which may mean people can develop a progressive platform to help build social democratic policies to deal with the 'Bread and Butter' issues so frequently mentioned in the last local election here. But, that is a long way away.


Re: Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland (#14)

by John Doyle on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 10:40:49 PM GMT

There is now a new urgency to this matter. Our beloved sister party the SDLP has responded positively to Fianna Fail's announcement that it is to organise in Northern Ireland. SDLP Leader Mark Durkan has committed the SDLP to working with the Fianna Fail committee implementing this policy.

The SDLP have now shown their cards - it is important that Labour respond to this.


Alan Johnson in the north of Ireland | 14 comments (14 topical)