Freedom from Information

Those Labour MPs that helped pass David Maclean's bill to amend the FoI Act so that Parliament is effectively exempt from legislation should be ashamed of themselves.

Looking down the list of Labour MPs who supported the third reading of the FoI amendment bill I am really disappointed. There are a lot of MPs (and some Ministers) who I hold in high regard.

That they seek to prevent the British people from - for instance - knowing how their taxes (in the form of allowances) are spent by their elected representatives is beyond contempt.

It is they who work for and on behalf of the British people, not the other way round.

On this issue I find myself agreeing with Norman Baker (you can read his thoughts on this issue here) - this bill brings Parliament into disrepute, and the MPs who supported should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

And that this bill is closer to becoming legislation on the back of Labour votes makes me thoroughly ashamed to be a member of the party.

This pernicious bill serves only to destroy the sentiment of the original legislation, replacing the ethos of "Freedom of Information" with the far less appealing "Freedom from Information".

Labour MPs who supported Third reading of FoI amendment bill

Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East)
Graham Allen (Nottingham North)
Janet Anderson (Rossendale & Darwen)
Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West)
Sir Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough)
Clive Betts (Sheffield Attercliffe)
Liz Blackman (Erewash)
Nick Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend)
Colin Burgon (Elmet)
David Cairns (Inverclyde)
Alan Campbell (Tynemouth)
Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley)
David Clelland (Tyne Bridge)
Harry Cohen (Leyton & Wanstead)
Wayne David (Caerphilly)
Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester)
Brian Donohoe (Ayrshire Central)
Frank Doran (Aberdeen North)
Jim Dowd (Lewisham West)
Angela Eagle (Wallasey)
Maria Eagle (Liverpool Garston)
Clive Efford (Eltham)
Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar & Canning Town)
Caroline Flint (Don Valley)
Michael Foster (Worcester)
Mike Hall (Weaver Vale)
Tom Harris (Glasgow South)
Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne North)
John Heppell (Nottingham East)
Keith Hill (Streatham)
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)
Kevan Jones (Durham North)
Martyn Jones (Clwyd South)
Fraser Kemp (Houghton & Washington East)
David Lammy (Tottenham)
Bob Laxton (Derby North)
Tom Levitt (High Peak)
Ivan Lewis (Bury South)
Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central)
Tommy McAvoy (Rutherglen & Hamilton West)
Stephen McCabe (Birmingham Hall Green)
Ian McCartney (Makerfield)
John McFall (Dunbartonshire West)
Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes)
Tony McNulty (Harrow East)
Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham Perry Barr)
David Marshall (Glasgow East)
Gillian Merron (Lincoln)
Alun Michael (Cardiff South & Penarth)
Laura Moffatt (Crawley)
Elliot Morley (Scunthorpe)
George Mudie (Leeds East)
Meg Munn (Sheffield Heeley)
Denis Murphy (Wansbeck)
James Plaskitt (Warwick & Leamington)
Stephen Pound (Ealing North)
Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton North East)
John Robertson (Glasgow North West)
Frank Roy (Motherwell & Wishaw)
Joan Ryan (Enfield North)
Martin Salter (Reading West)
Jonathan Shaw (Chatham & Aylesford)
Jimmy Sheridan (Paisley & Renfrewshire North)
Sion Simon (Birmingham Erdington)
Angela C Smith (Sheffield Hillsborough)
Anne Snelgrove (Swindon South)
John Spellar (Warley)
Ian Stewart (Eccles)
Mark Tami (Alyn & Deeside)
Dari Taylor (Stockton South)
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West)
Dr Desmond Turner (Brighton Kemptown)
Claire Ward (Watford)
Tom Watson (West Bromwich East)
Dave Watts (St Helens North)
Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
Phil Woolas (Oldham East & Saddleworth)
David Wright (Telford)

Source: BBC News



Display: Sort:

Re: Freedom from Information (#1)

It's absolute rubbish to suggest this Bill has anything to do with MPs' allowances. No supporter of the Bill has ever argued for it on the basis of suppressing the release of information about allowances. What it is about is protecting constituents who go to their MP for help, and find that letters written by the MP to public bodies to get them to take action are released - sometimes to the people who are the cause of their original problem. Despite claims that Data Protection laws prevent this release it has been proved to happen. Some of the FOI requests have apparently come from the BNP and other extremist groups.

Re: Freedom from Information (#8)

Mr Boothroyd, you are going to have to take off those Ultra-Blair tinted spectacles in order you may see the crass arrogance and stupidity of your post. It is misleading to state that the protection of correspondence, which refers to a constituent's personal circumstances, is the sole purpose of MP's voting in favour of the bill. Not only is it already exempt under the Data Protection Act, all of your darling MP's voted against an amendment to the proposed bill that would further exempt any such correspondence from being published under FoI. You say that such disclosures "has been proved to happen (sic)". Rubbish, MP's have been challenged in the chamber and outside to provide one incident of a disclosure that could not have been prevented under existing legislation. Not one solitary case has come forward, rather than being 'proved' it has unquestionably been disproved. You also talk about the supporters of the bill not arguing a particular line in favour, now we are being a little naive aren't we? Remember 'burying bad news' 'the dodgy dossier' 'Railtrack' need I go on? The real effect of the Bill would be to (a) prevent the disclosure of detailed information about MPs' expenses claims and Parliament's spending and (b) allow MPs to lobby public authorities in secret, in the knowledge that what they write could not be disclosed under the Act.

Re: Freedom from Information (#9)

What has 'Blairite' to do with it? You're the one with blinkers here, seeing anything you don't like as being Blairite. Your anti-Labour agenda is made perfectly clear. The Bill was introduced by a Conservative MP and has been supported by all parties; the case for the Bill is not a party political one. Disclosure of MPs' correspondence, giving private information of their constituents' problems, has been proved in several cases. Because the issue here is that it should not have happened, it would not be appropriate to give wider publicity to it. The Bill will not change in any way the disclosure of MPs' expenses claims, and nor has anyone supported the Bill based on its effects there.

Re: Freedom from Information (#10)

It will affect the disclosure of MPs' expenses, the research document (page 22) states:

Mr Maclean said he had already discussed the bill with the Speaker, Michael Martin, who had assured him that parliament would still publish general details of MPs' expenses and allowances as now, even though they would not be obliged under his amendment. The bill would also prevent challenges to the information commissioner or to an information tribunal if a member of the public wanted an MP to provide more information.

While I don't believe that MP's are voting for this bill with the intention of hiding information, this bill will give them the power to do so. A subsequent speaker could choose not to publish MP's expenses.

Can you give examples of any of the cases of disclosure of MP's private correspondence?

Re: Freedom from Information (#11)

I never mentioned 'Blairite' in my post (not paranoid are we?), but as you ask, I said you were 'ultra-blair' in your rather dodgy interpretation of the facts. If I gave the impression that the bill was 'Blairite' then I humbly apologise for any misconception. Of course, the bill was introduced by an ex-Tory whip and can be described as 'right wing'. However, it only amounts to MP's having the right not to have their dirty washing hung out in public, and could never be so anti-liberterian as to be labled 'Blairite'.
To get to the point, your reply still does not answer the question I put to you, that is to provide one example, just one will do me, of a disclosure of correspondence, who's disclosure could not have been prevented using existing legislation.
Until you can do that, please stop peddling the lie (now thats what I call 'Blairite') that this pernicious bill is solely about protecting MP's correspondence.
On the all-party support notion, Ming Cambell and David Cameron (belatedly) have spoken out against the bill, Brown hasn't.

Re: Freedom from Information (#12)

people like Harry Cohen voted against the bill. So not just a Blairite bill. And many 'blairite' bloggers on here have expressed their opposition to the bill.

Re: Freedom from Information (#13)

I think that you mean voted for it!

Re: Freedom from Information (#14)

my mistake

Re: Freedom from Information (#16)

I'm a Blairite and I oppose what's happened - it smacks of hypocrisy and is truly anti-democratic.

Re: Freedom from Information (#2)

I'm amazed that a Labour government is supposedly 'neutral' when the Tories are attacking a key element of their constitutional reforms. As that list shows in reality they have been anything but neutral. Private Members Bills are notoriously difficult to get though Parliament and it has only been able to get as far as it has, as quickly as it has because of tacit support from the government.

For anyone who is interested there is a facebook group campaigning against David Maclean's Bill see http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2365842882

Gordon Brown's initial response of 'it's an issue for MPs I won't get involved' was also woefully inadequate. You are an MP Gordon show some leadership! At the very least you could say how you would have voted.

It's good to see that he is getting more involved in defending FOI now though

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/23/nbrown23.xml

Chancellor will block moves to water down FOI

By Graeme Wilson and George Jones Last Updated: 2:20am BST 24/05/2007

Gordon Brown is poised to kill off moves by the Lord Chancellor to water down the Freedom of Information Act, it became clear last night.

Gordon Brown is poised to kill off moves by the Lord Chancellor to water down the Freedom of Information Act Gordon Brown wants to see the Private Members' Bill rewritten The Chancellor is ready to block plans drawn up by Lord Falconer which critics claim are designed to make it more difficult for people to obtain information from Whitehall.

Re: Freedom from Information (#3)

For the sake of complete info, here are the Labour MPs who voted against the Third Reading of the Bill: Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) Jim Cousins (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) rh Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead) Mark Fisher (Stoke on Trent Central) Mr. Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow) Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) Dan Norris (Wansdyke) Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) Mr. David Winnick (Walsall North) As this was unofficially whipped, I'm very surprised to see Norris in there. And I still don't understand why line breaks aren't showing up - any ideas?

Re: Freedom from Information (#4)

The input is entered as raw HTML, which ignores line break characters. It requires either a <p> tag (paragraph) or a <br /> tag (line break) tag to represent either a new line or new paragraph. The old site replaced line breaks with <br /> tags to get around this, the new one doesn't

Writing it like this would do the trick:
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North)<br />
Jim Cousins (Newcastle upon Tyne Central)<br />
Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead)<br />
Mark Fisher (Stoke on Trent Central)<br />
Mr. Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow)<br />
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)<br />
Dan Norris (Wansdyke)<br />
Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South)<br />
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall North)<br />

Re: Freedom from Information (#5)

The research on this post needs a little work, the Lib Dem MP leading the opposition to the bill is Norman Baker not Norman Lamb. The situation with MP's expenses is also a little more complex. The House is no longer obligated to publish MP's expenses although the current Speaker has agreed that they will still be published, future speakers could potentially stop the publication.

The problem with this bill is that any confidential correspondence that may have entered the public domain would undoubtedly have arisen as a result of a misunderstanding of the way the FoI act interacts with the data protection act. It is uncertain whether adding this amendment would really solve the actual problemit's intended to solve.

Overall, the justification for the bill seems pretty weak.

Re: Freedom from Information (#7)

Amended the Norman Baker/Lamb thing - silly error. It seems to me that the whole private correspondence line is simply a smokescreen to protect MPs from having to disclose things which they may find embarrassing - such as expenses. The electorate deserves probity from elected officials, and I suggest that the culture of Westminster should be for politicians to be completely upfront about these matters. However, the thing that really upsets me is the sentiment of the amendment. To tighten up existing legislation to protect private correspondence between constituents and their MPs is one thing; but to begin to unravel existing statutes for the same end - trampling over the ethos of open government in the process - is quite another. Whatever you think about the motivation, this PMB is not the answer to the alleged problem at hand.

Re: Freedom OF Information (?) (#6)

Alexander, completely agree, it is an outrage.

Whatever the law says it is quite clear that an MP would be sorely in breach of trust were he to publish constituents' letters or complaints.

Re: Freedom from Information (#15)

A QC wrote to The Times this week stating that the Data Protection Act does cover correspondence. Further, the Information Commissioner when interviewed on the Today programme recently stated that he had not dealt with one case of constituents correspondence. A number of issues are raised for me. It is not acceptable that the Speaker has ruled that he will publish MPs expenses each year. This "gentlemans agreement" would end when a new speaker is elected. MPs have been aware for months that the public were not in favour of excluding the House from FOI. Many newspapers covered this bill; comment online was firmly opposed. There was also a petition on the No10 website. In all, those who voted for this bill have behaved abominably. They have treated the electorate ( and taxpayer)with disdain. There were a number of debates in the House - they were covered in the media so MPs knew their decision would cause public offence and further diminish the low reputation of the political classes. Whatever way they dress up the issue, I am of the opinion that many MPs believe that their conditions of service should be witheld. I have no concern about how much MPs claim in allowances as long as it is within the rules and they provide documentation to support payment. I would prefer MPs not to vote on issues surrounding their employment and believe that this should be done by a separate body. I feel insulted that MPs believe that they can "con" me into believing that this bill is in the interests of their constituents. It seems relevant now to start asking pertinent questions vis: Do we need so many MPs? All government departments can be contacted directly online - no requirement to go through MPs. In addition, FOI permits individuals to obtain information relevant to any community action. My experience with MPs is not good. They have not supported local action and behaved as a mail box in forwarding correspondence on to relevant departments. As Tony Banks said - MPs are poorly qualified to deal with Social Work problems. Constituents letters on such subjects would best be directed to CAB. Should MPs be able to continue with their careers? I often feel aggrieved that many work during parliamentary sessions. I am very happy for them to undertake "voluntary" work during their long holidays. Should MPs not have to retire at a specific age the same as other professions? Should MPs have to attend Parliament on a given number of sessions? The House has a Modernisation Committee. It is about time that some of the issues above were discussed.