Odds shorten on Benn victory

Mike Ion Wed May 23, 2007 at 04:07:39 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Earlier today William Hill slashed the odds for a Benn victory - he is now 2-1 joint-favourite to become John Prescott's successor. Hilary's campaign chairman, Ian McCartney, said a successful start to the campaign and a good performance at the three deputy leadership hustings held so far was responsible for the turnaround.



The bookies have picked up on what the opinion polls have been saying for months - the grassroots of the Labour party trust Hilary Benn to speak up for the things they care about.

In an interview in today's Guardian Hilary Benn says he would start work on a fresh deal with the Trade Unions immediately if elected, ensuring that agency and temporary workers were also better protected.
Benn is quoted as saying that "It's important that [the deputy leadership] is about renewing the party and encouraging it to face outwards. But I'm very clear that it's also about Labour having the right answers to the big policy questions about the future."

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Odds shorten on Benn victory | 50 comments (50 topical)

Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#1)

by SocialistAC on Wed May 23, 2007 at 05:43:01 PM GMT

"In an interview in today's Guardian Hilary Benn says he would start work on a fresh deal with the Trade Unions immediately if elected, ensuring that agency and temporary workers were also better protected." If that's true, he definitely is getting my first preference vote.


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#2)

by lastword on Wed May 23, 2007 at 06:25:44 PM GMT

Why did Hilary Benn vote against Paul Farrelly's recent private members bill on this very same issue? He's just after votes and some of us can see throgh him.


[ Parent ]

Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#4)

by otware on Wed May 23, 2007 at 06:36:57 PM GMT

Even squeaky-clean Hilary Benn is guilty of jumping on the bandwagon, then. He probably thinks Jon Cruddas as likely to take votes from him so he wants to talk more left.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#5)

by Mike Ion on Wed May 23, 2007 at 07:06:00 PM GMT

lastword I think it is only fair that you retract this statement. Hilary did NOT vote against Paul Farrelly's bill. As you are aware on March 2nd over a hundred Labour MPs stayed in London to back the Bill rather than head back to their constituencies (Hilary was out of the country at the time). It was a vital Bill that would have offered protection to hundreds of thousands of the most vulnerable workers in our economy but as you know, because of some disgraceful parliamentary manoeuvring, MPs were denied the chance to vote for it. This is an issue that won't go away though. Paul Farrelly and the trade unions have ran a great campaign, and the government have got to come back to this one - that is what Hilary was arguing for.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#6)

by David Boothroyd on Wed May 23, 2007 at 09:00:18 PM GMT

Indeed - no MPs voted against the Temporary and Agency Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Bill, because there was no division on it.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#7)

by lastword on Wed May 23, 2007 at 11:29:21 PM GMT

I hope you're right, Mike. I have never heard Hilary say anything about the Paul farrelly bill fiasco. if he made a statement somewhere I'd be grateful to be directed to it.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#8)

by Mike Ion on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:06:59 AM GMT

He gave an interview to the Guardian earlier this week in which he clearly stated that agency workers need better protection. The importnat point however is that he did NOT vote against Paul Farrelly's bill and it was unfair of you to suggest (state) that he did.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#3)

by chickenlittle on Wed May 23, 2007 at 06:32:41 PM GMT

In other words, 'let's forget the Warwick agreement and start again'. Why should the unions be interested in a new agreement when there is so much still to be done from the old one?


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#9)

by grimupnorth on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:40:45 AM GMT

Having had a week to calm down, I'm still voting for Hilary Benn.This confirms to me that he is sound.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#12)

by Mike Ion on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:04:54 PM GMT

grimupnorth This is encouraging news - I read your posts and comments (don't always agree with them) and feel that it is importnat that we show that Hilary is the ONLY candidate that can draw on support from all corners of the big tent!


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#14)

by grimupnorth on Thu May 24, 2007 at 04:31:29 PM GMT

I hope he doesn't forget that he is where he is thanks to the Campaign Group.... but frankly, give me an honest person to the right of me than someone like Cruddas who courted the left then dumped us in the ordure.Party democracy? Yeah, right,Jon.Myh 2nd preference will go to Hain - not voting for any of the other numpties


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#16)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:13:37 PM GMT

Did the Campaign Group not just nominate Benn out of comradely generosity? I cant see the likes of Jeremy Corbyn giving him endorsements on his website. But it seems that Wedgwood Benn the elder is definitely supporting the fruit of his loins. It's touching that family loyalty comes before left/right divides. Reminds us that there are more important things in life. p.s Grim do you honestly expect Wedgie Benn Jr to suddenly prove more left-wing than he's been so far? Of course all the candidates are trying to court all sides of the party! Surely the most important thing to look at is voting records. p.p.s Piece in the latest Private Eye about the businessmen Hain gets all his money from. So you are supporting Blairite Benn and the Business-Sponsored Candidate? No wonder the far left is in such a mess


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#17)

by doctordunc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 06:22:11 PM GMT

Oh for goodness sake, can we stop it with all this 'far left', blah blah blah nonsense now. This contest is hardly a left/right one, is it? Are people poring through the supporters of the other candidates to make weird sectarian attacks? (We could all do it: "Oh look, Tom Watson supporting Jon Cruddas - he was about as right wing as you could get and still be Labour back when we were both in student politics - so is the person he's supporting the 'left candidate'?") But what's the point, I'm sure Tom has a variety of reasons for his choice of candidate, as have I - and I don't imagine who is meant to be more left wing is particularly influencing either of us!


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#22)

by Ian G on Thu May 24, 2007 at 09:00:50 PM GMT

Actually it's quite simple if you cut away the personalities and focus on some issues.

Which candidate will argue against more private involvement in the NHS at the cabinet table? Cruddas will, Hilary Benn won't. (see The Mirror Q&A today)

Which candidate admits the Iraq war was a mistake? Cruddas does, Benn doesn't.

Which candidate voted against trident replacement? Cruddas did, Hilary Benn didn't.

Which candidate voted against top-up fees? Cruddas did, Benn did't.

And so it goes on, but now you'll tell me that the Deputy Leader has no influence on anything so it doesn't matter anyway...


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#34)

by grimupnorth on Fri May 25, 2007 at 06:15:38 PM GMT

Which leadership candidate shared Cruddas's positions on all of the above and was shafted thanks to him and his mates? Oh, and I thought Cruddas wasn't after a Cabinet position.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#39)

by Ian G on Sat May 26, 2007 at 12:32:32 AM GMT

Jon is not after the position of deputy PM. He wants the chance to represent the party at the cabinet table. I don't give a **** who shafted who. Cruddas is the best candidate we have.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#35)

by jonesythered on Fri May 25, 2007 at 08:24:17 PM GMT

Even if Cruddas were to argue over these issues behind closed doors, do you think it would make any difference given he's got no power whatsoever? The new spin about Cruddas being opposed to private sector involvement in public services is, I'm afraid, just not true. He didn't vote against the privatisation of probation services and he's voted for marketisation of the NHS (i.e. Foundation Hospitals). Also note this from 2005: "However, Mr Cruddas had praise for the government's public service reform agenda, although he conceded it was "not going fast enough - it never can, but there are positive things around". Last week he joined a government minister to open one of eight integrated health centres in his borough, which was the result of a "radical partnership between the public and private sector", he said." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4268142.stm Neither am I convinced by him apologising for voting for the Iraq war (which, you should note, Harman is also doing). He's just admitting the obvious - i.e. now it hasn't turned out the way he wanted, he opposes it. Well guess what, even militant neoconservatives in the US say the same thing - in fact there was an issue of Vanity Fair last November devoted to their mea culpas. It is, in my view, an absolute scandal that, given 139 Labour MPs voted against the war, all six deputy leadership candidates voted for it. In my view, the soft left committed an absolute tactical disaster by not putting up Jon Trickett instead of Cruddas - who has a consistent political record, including voting against the war.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#36)

by alsoleeds on Fri May 25, 2007 at 09:09:29 PM GMT

I think much of Jon Trickett, but I think Jon Trickett was one of those who first encouraged Jon Cruddas to run for the deputy leadership.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#37)

by jonesythered on Fri May 25, 2007 at 09:35:24 PM GMT

Cruddas was approached by the T&G and Amicus to stand. Trickett obviously supported that (he's parliamentary manager, after all) - but there may well be additional context behind that


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#41)

by otware on Sat May 26, 2007 at 02:01:25 AM GMT

I hope we see Trickett come through a bit more in years to come. He's decent enough.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#50)

by doctordunc on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:09:42 PM GMT

I wouldn't buy a used car from him though.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#26)

by grassrootsgal on Fri May 25, 2007 at 09:34:47 AM GMT

At the Islington North nomination meeting last night Jeremy was invited by members to give his view of the candidates several times, but refused to do so. There was a big debate about the merits of harman and Cruddas, but Jeremy sad glued to his chair arms folded. I suppose you could regard this as loyalty to Hilary?(btw Harman won the nomination)


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#10)

by jgc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:49:13 AM GMT

It is worth pointing out that if Hilary Benn had been present then he would of been voting against the procedural motion that prevented the bill being debated. The vote against was organised by the whips and so as a minister he would have had to follow the whips instruction/suggestions


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#11)

by David Boothroyd on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:51:28 AM GMT

I can only wonder at where you are getting this information from as you don't seem to understand Parliamentary procedure. There was no procedural motion involved at all. The Second Reading of the Bill was moved at a late stage on Friday, with interruption of business at 2:30 PM, and the Bill simply ran out of time without anyone having to do anything. The fact that the question had not been put and the Bill was still being debated at 2:30 PM meant that the debate was postponed until a future meeting of the House. The government never issues a whip over a Private Members' Bill.


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#20)

by Ian G on Thu May 24, 2007 at 08:46:25 PM GMT

"the Bill simply ran out of time without anyone having to do anything" If you look at the speaches of Jim Fitzpatrick and Robert Flello in Hansard, you will see that the bill did not 'simply' run out of time. It was deliberately talked out. It would have been exceptionally easy to make time for the bill.


[ Parent ]

Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#13)

by Sensible Comrade on Thu May 24, 2007 at 03:48:34 PM GMT

I think the bookies are taking "Bennites for Benn" into consideration.


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#15)

by jgc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 04:36:13 PM GMT

The whips dont take the day off on a Friday ( when private members bills are discussed ), they might not issue official three line whips but there is for most bills "an official line". In this case the whips organised to ensure that there was not enough time to debate the bill in question by efectively prolonging debate on( if my memory is correct ) mini motos. So if Hilary had been in the house he would have been expected, as a minister, to follow the advice of the whips. If you check out the record of the proceedural motion "that the question now be put" http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2007-03-02&number=64&display=allvotes you will see that all the ministers present voted to continue the debate ie not to move on the bill dealing with tempory and agency workers.


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#18)

by newsnight on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:29:56 PM GMT

On the day (02 March), Robert Flello Labour MP, talked incessantly in the previous debate on 'off-road vehicles' despite protests from the EDM's sponser, Graham Stringer MP, and other MP's, to the effect that they were accusing Mr Flello of seeking to influence the time available to the next EDM (Agency Workers Rights).

Because of the machinations of Mr Flello, by the time the 'Agency Workers Rights' EDM came up there was only about 30 minutes left before the 14:30 cut-off. Jim Fitzpatrick, Labour Minister, 'talked out' the EDM, and unlike "Mr Boothroyd" above, I do understand parliamentary procedure, and it is 'parliamentary procedure' that if a minister is speaking (replying) to an EDM debate at the time of the end of the allotted time (14:30 in this case), then the question has not been put and it falls off the agenda. Of course, a minister can at any time prior to the cut-off time sit down and allow the question to be put.

On this particular day, just before 14:30, Jim Fitzpatrick ignored numerous plea's of his colleague MP's to 'have the question put' and disgracefully ignored their pleadings and refused to sit down.

Using 'parliament procedure' That is how the Whips, Ministers and Government wreck their colleagues attempts to bring about bills such as this one.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#19)

by David Boothroyd on Thu May 24, 2007 at 07:50:25 PM GMT

Look 'Newsnight' I'm the one posting under my real name and you're the one who hasn't the guts to reveal theirs, so I wouldn't go too overboard with the inverted commas if I were you.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#23)

by newsnight on Thu May 24, 2007 at 10:57:25 PM GMT

Whats with the identity crisis? do you hide behind every critisism with demands of identity? Grow up, you blog and post on a site which does not demand ID checks, if you don't like it, piss off. In the meantime, if you decide to accept the parameters of this site, answer the question or stop peddling lies and untruths under the falsehood of your imaginary knowledge.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#28)

by David Boothroyd on Fri May 25, 2007 at 11:06:35 AM GMT

I object to you putting my name in "scare quotes" when you're not revealing your own identity. For all anyone knows you could be a Tory troll, you're certainly behaving like one.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#32)

by newsnight on Fri May 25, 2007 at 04:50:53 PM GMT

O.K. You win, you are Mr Wonderful and I'm a tory troll (whatever that is?). Now will you please answer the question?


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#38)

by David Boothroyd on Fri May 25, 2007 at 11:34:18 PM GMT

The answer to your question is that you're talking rubbish. The decision to accept a closure motion is that of the occupant of the chair, not the government whips.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#40)

by newsnight on Sat May 26, 2007 at 01:51:29 AM GMT

Does your stupidity have no bounds, why do you keep coming back for more? Look stupid, I will re-iterate one more time! that in these circumstances, it is the minister who dictates proceedings, not the chair. In a, probably vain, attempt to educate you on your 'vast' knowledge of parliamentary procedure I will paste a quote from the debate in question from Hansard(02/03/07):

Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North) (Lab): I do hope that the Minister is not under instructions to talk the measure out. I imagine that every Labour Member in the Chamber wants the opportunity to support the Bill on Second Reading. I have a great deal of respect for my hon. Friend, and I do hope that he will sit down before half-past 2.

Now look mate, given that Mr Winnick is in Parliament, and you are not (thankfully), can I drill in to your tiny mind that he (Mr Winnick), might know a thing or two about parliamentary procedure that just may have escaped your tiny mind.

May I suggest that if you wish to post "knowledgeable" statements in the future, you really should be quite sure that you are not talking through your hoop. Goodnight.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#21)

by Mike Ion on Thu May 24, 2007 at 08:50:30 PM GMT

The main point here is that Hilary has come out and said that the protection of agency workers needs to be a priority. I think he should be congratualated for doing so and we should focus on how we get Paul Farrelly's bill on the statute books.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#24)

by alexhilton on Fri May 25, 2007 at 12:29:10 AM GMT

While it's distasteful for Bills to be talked out - can I say that it is common for Private Members Bills to be killed, only for their provisions to be resurrected as part of a Government Bill on Government time - or as a statutory instrument - after the civil service has had a go at it. When I worked in parliament, I did lots of work on a Corporate Responsibility Bill for my former employer, defeated a number of times as a private members bill - but later adopted into a Government Bill (google "operating and financial review") Ironically, those provisions were later dropped in controversial circumstances - but like i say - it does happen.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#25)

by HenryG on Fri May 25, 2007 at 12:38:35 AM GMT

Paul Farrelly author of the temporary and agency workers bill is backing Jon Cruddas. But as a Cruddas supporter I can say I am pleased that other candidates are beginning to take up issues Jon has flagged up in recent months. Blears is talking about council housing, Johnson has agreed for an amnesty on unregularised migrants and Benn on Agency Workers. Although I want to see Jon win, I want to see these issues on the agenda and with support throughout the party too. So well done to Hilary for coming on board and let's hope the others will do too.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#27)

by swatantra on Fri May 25, 2007 at 10:53:25 AM GMT

Funny how fortunes change. Alan Johnson started out as the front runner, but he has put in a such a lacklustre perfomance of late that he's slipped in the ratings. He and Benn had the Union block votes virtually sewn up between them. Cruddas has some interesting things to say, and I committed my vote to him some time ago anyway, but he won't win. So who have we got left? Well, I'll have to go for Harman as my second preference, just to ensure a balanced ticket. And you know, it might just work, smooth off the edges of 'gruff' Brown, adding that feminine touch. Harriet could field some of the trickier questions and come up with comprehensible answers which ordinary folk can understand, and leave all the technical stuff to Brown. Benn is too nice a guy to be Deputy, but he'll be great at the FO.


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#30)

by alexhilton on Fri May 25, 2007 at 02:23:36 PM GMT

There are no Union block votes Swatantra


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#29)

by grimupnorth on Fri May 25, 2007 at 11:23:05 AM GMT

"That feminine touch." Oh, please....Ever heard of sexism? Harman will be Brown's yes-person. NO THANKYOU Johnson was rubbish on Question Time last night. Bob Crow showed him up big-style ( more lefties please on Question Time).Blears is unthinkable. Casting aside my contempt for his shenanigans, Cruddas just won't win ( which, So it hasto be Benn as the least worst option. At least he is well acquainted with the left of the Party .....


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#31)

by lastword on Fri May 25, 2007 at 02:41:43 PM GMT

I find it amusing that everyone who says Jon Cruddas won't win is actually definitely planning to vote for him. All those votes add up, people! Start believing in yourselves!


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#33)

by lastword on Fri May 25, 2007 at 04:55:23 PM GMT

I also see that over on Luke's blog the feedback on who CLPs are nominating shows Cruddas picking up nominations in spades. https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=28811162&postID=7286596090876009419


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#42)

by otware on Sat May 26, 2007 at 02:14:37 AM GMT

He certainly does appear to be doing well in the CLP nominations. Good for him, go Cruddas! I hope those bloggers are right and Blears does drop out. She is quite frankly awful.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#43)

by Sensible Comrade on Sat May 26, 2007 at 09:37:33 AM GMT

Let's keep it comradely comrades! At least she has sense enough to try to copy Jon Cruddas by focusing on the importance of campaigning, hinting that she would not want to be DPM, and now calling for more housing to be bilt. (She's been in government for years - if she appreciated the importance of this why didn't she raise it before?!)


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#45)

by grimupnorth on Sat May 26, 2007 at 02:43:18 PM GMT

Backing Margaret Hodge will see hazel off.....


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#46)

by otware on Sat May 26, 2007 at 08:43:38 PM GMT

Shame it's too late to nominate her. lol.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#48)

by jkitleft on Sat May 26, 2007 at 09:14:50 PM GMT

Margaret Hodge is by far the most incompetent minister in the government.


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#49)

by otware on Sun May 27, 2007 at 02:25:38 PM GMT

Brown had better do the decent thing and boot her out onto the backbenches. I hope she's deselcted. After her comments last year about the BNP, and now her ridiculous BNP housing policy...


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Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#44)

by otware on Sat May 26, 2007 at 11:37:29 AM GMT

Isn't it interesting how nearly all of the candidates have been making leftwing noises? They've all suddenly rediscovered their socialist roots now that they have a chave to be deputy leader. Chances are they're all just putting on an act.
Indicative of a general climbdown from the extremes of New Labour, and a slight leftwards swing though?


Re: Odds shorten on Benn victory (#47)

by swatantra on Sat May 26, 2007 at 08:56:06 PM GMT

No, surely not; we're talking about people with principles,values and the desire to win at all costs.


[ Parent ]

Odds shorten on Benn victory | 50 comments (50 topical)