Iran 'to release British Soldiers'

Glass House Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 03:55:59 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

It seems that the Iranians are preparing to release the 15 kidnapped British soldiers.



This article also appears on the Glass House Blog

Firstly, I'll say that this is welcome news. However, this whole sorry stand off has thoroughly depressed me. So many people seem unwilling to believe that the mess can be anything other than Britain's fault. I wonder what would have happened if 15 Iranian soldiers were taken by British forces in Iranian waters. Would so many have been so quick to side with the kidnappers?

I'll turn you over to Harry's Place which makes a point worth pondering...

Please assure me that no one in Britain will actually respond to this "gift" with gratitude to the Iranian regime.

* sigh *


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Iran 'to release British Soldiers' | 48 comments (48 topical)

Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#1)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 07:51:01 PM GMT

The appalling  former US ambassador John Bolton has been on Channel 4 News condemning  Britain and saying our Govt is weak etc.
What does he think we should have done? Invaded.......probably.
Am  delighted this has ben resolved without any violence but no doubt is there that  it's the Iranians who have won the PR war as far as rest of world concerned.
If Bolton doesn't like  how the Govt has behaved well, frankly, am on  Blair's side for once,Diplomacy  not death.
 Won't atop the US doing its macho Rambo stuff, though. Bolton also said this would ratchet  up Iran's determination to habe nuclear capability therefore worlds "more  dangerous place." Won't  the Americans EVER   acknowledge their part in this mess in the Middle East.  


Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#2)

by laurencemarshall on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 09:08:00 PM GMT

What planet do live on? Iran has clearly lost the PR war in this instance. Britain stood back while the Iranians continued to parade the hostages in front of the media, looking like the corrupt and manipulative theocracy they are. What is it with you trots? Every silver lining seems to have cloud!


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#3)

by Loz on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 09:49:11 PM GMT

Absolutely.

Now, hopefully some of these guys will be willing to tell their story, and we can score another PR victory.

Fantastic news, but yet another reminder of the iranian threat, it isn't going away, more than likely ahmedinnerjacket was cut down by the real bosses in Iran.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#8)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:27:41 PM GMT

For the umpteenth time. Am not Trotskyist.Even when one is reasonable ie think Govt done  well,  abuse from the right......
If I were Trotskyist, would say so and be unapologetic......


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#19)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:03:12 PM GMT

You quite obviously have the intellect and mental aptitude of a baboon. Surely you should be <u>happy</u> that the 15 were released without any fighting. What is it with you Tories?


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#23)

by grimupnorth on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:29:40 PM GMT

Am I  the baboon, then? Bit confused......Makes a change from being  called a Trot!
As I have said, the Govt did OK on this  one.....


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#26)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:34:29 PM GMT

Nah Laurencemarshall is the baboon lol.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#27)

by laurencemarshall on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:39:31 PM GMT

God you're funny. Hiding behind a pseudonym as will. You must be brave too.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#29)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:43:57 PM GMT

It's past you bedtime.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#24)

by laurencemarshall on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:58:25 PM GMT

I was refering to grimupnorth's statement about the PR war, you obtuse headbanger. Or didn't I elaborate enough for you tiny trot brain to comprehend?


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#25)

by doctordunc on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:20:49 PM GMT


Oh deary-me.  We have actually been transported back to the '80s haven't we.  This isn't NOLS conference!  Are we not able to have a discussion without this retro abuse?

At some point you will have to acknowledge that all these 'trots', 'stalinists' and 'commies' that you loathe are actually ordinary members of the Labour Party who happen to disagree with you.  Interestingly, the Tories at my old uni used to call one of their own MEPs, Edward McMillan-Scott, Edward McMillan-Trot because he was 'so left wing' - and the far right call everyone vaguely left-of-centre 'commies'.  Discuss the issues - this is just completely pointless and meaningless abuse.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#36)

by JR on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:15:53 PM GMT

The abuse, as always, comes from both sides. It's no use criticising laurence without criticising the lefties who provoke this in the first place.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#28)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 02:42:41 PM GMT

Do you want me to explain the difference between Trotskyism and democratic socialism to you? You seem to have got confused somewhere.

How does the view that Iran has won the 'PR war' make you a bolshevik?


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#30)

by laurencemarshall on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 03:02:22 PM GMT

Go for it then! Go on, grace us with the gift of your knowledge. Waste your time. You seem to have enough of it.

There are many uses for different terms.  The term "trot", is used to describe someone on the left of the Labour party. It is a commonly used term, albeit not etymologically correct.

As the PR war with Iran, what I was describing was a common left wing attitude with a play on the phrase "Every cloud has a silver lining". My point was, the left has to find fault with everything, and is never really happy. This was clear from what was written.

I think you're the one who is confused, have your carers left you alone again?


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#31)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 03:39:09 PM GMT

Not everybody abides by your dictionary. Our definition of Trotskyism is very different from yours, it seems. It seems strange that you should accuse the left of never being happy when discussing this issue, when actually grimupnorth has been praising the government! The only people who aren't happy are people like you who for some reason think that us loosing face to the Iranians is more serious than the hostage crisis itself. Maybe you should be grateful that this crisis was solved without starting WW3.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#32)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 03:39:09 PM GMT

Not everybody abides by your dictionary. Our definition of Trotskyism is very different from yours, it seems. It seems strange that you should accuse the left of never being happy when discussing this issue, when actually grimupnorth has been praising the government! The only people who aren't happy are people like you who for some reason think that us loosing face to the Iranians is more serious than the hostage crisis itself. Maybe you should be grateful that this crisis was solved without starting WW3.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#34)

by laurencemarshall on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 04:21:22 PM GMT

Every the melodramatic trot aren't we? WW3 was hardily going to happen if the US had used this as an excuse to invade Iran.

Your definition of what a trot is may be different, but mine is well established. Either you were being intentionally obtuse, or you're just an idiot.

Also, I openly praised the governments handling of this crisis on the other post on this subject. Look next time.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#4)

by JR on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:37:40 PM GMT

Obviously it's good that they've been released, but this whole story has been depressing (as was said before).

It's unbelievable how many people in this country think we actually did enter Iranian waters, when it was in fact Iran who entered Iraqi waters and captured our sailors illegally.

I even heard one of the sailor's mothers on the BBC news before saying "Thank you President Ahmadinajad, thank you for this gift you have given the British people". Utterly deplorable. I understand she is pleased to get her son home, but surely she must understand that this whole escopade wouldn't have started if Iran hadn't captured our sailors first and then used them in crude propaganda designed to make a mockery of us.

Fair play to Iran - they've made us look weak and look like idiots. When are own people actually prefer to believe the 'kind, saintly' Ahmadinajad over our own government and the international community, then we should know there is something seriously wrong. This country has lost any sort of backbone (the public, not the government) and it wouldn't surprise me if Iran is planning to do exactly the same again since they know they can fool are people so easily.


Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#5)

by doctordunc on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 10:49:34 PM GMT

JR - the woman's comments were perfectly understandable: they aren't home yet.  I'm dreading Blair or Bush or someone is going to say something stupid before they're actually released.  Thank God you or Loz weren't in government!

I think - apart from a few of the earlier statements which weren't all that helpful - the government should be congratulated for handling this pretty well.  It was clear from quite an early stage that Iran had made whatever point it was that they wanted to make (the truths of who was where, etc. is for another time) and were wanting some way out of this.  The John Bolton approach would have been guaranteed to put the service men and woman in danger; the diplomatic approach has worked.

The only depressing thing about it is that there are some people who ought to know better who are just aching to use military force.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#6)

by JR on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:14:00 PM GMT

the woman's comments were perfectly understandable: they aren't home yet

Fair enough. But I bet she says the same thing tomorrow when they're home. And if she does, I'll be very angry. I hope she thanks the British government for all of their hard work and effort and attacks the Iranian government for capturing our sailors and holding them hostage illegally. I doubt she will.

I never advocated using miltary force in this, but I wish we (the British people) had taken a much tougher stance against the Iranian government than what we did.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#7)

by doctordunc on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:19:21 PM GMT

The stance that was taken has got them home.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#9)

by JR on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:28:58 PM GMT

But will probably get more captured again in the future.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#15)

by Loz on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:56:12 AM GMT

To quote blair, he said we didn't nrgotiate and we didn't negotiate and we didn't not confront.

So what exactly did we do?.....


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#11)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:38:43 PM GMT

What do you suggest? The Govt gotit right.These people are alive and on way home to their families......


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#12)

by JR on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:53:24 PM GMT

But have we got it right?

I think the Iranians always planned to release them regardless of what the British said. Otherwise they would have further isolated themselves in the international community.

But Ahmadinejad has scored a propaganda victory in my view. He will now be more popular in Iran than ever and it will encourage him to challenge the West more now concerning the nuclear weapons. He's embarrassed our sailors and he's embarrassed our country. Even many British people were sucked in by his tactics.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#13)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:58:27 PM GMT

Yes,he has scored a PR victory. Ask yourself why.........


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#14)

by JR on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:01:14 AM GMT

Because he's an evil, disgusting human being who will do anything to boost his own ego and image, even if it's at the expense of world security.

Can't help thinking that you're suggesting that all this is somehow Blair's fault. Which again, justifies my anger at the sheer weakness of the British people (particularly those on the left).


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#21)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:10:13 PM GMT

Well what do you think we should have done instead?


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#37)

by JR on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:19:38 PM GMT

Completely condemned Iran right from the start instead of pussy footing around them. Throughout this whole thing, Ahmadinajad was calling the shots and we were following - it should have been the other way around. Even if it meant the sailors ending up staying there longer. They seemed to be enjoying themselves a little too much for comfort there anyway.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#39)

by doctordunc on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:58:54 PM GMT

What's that supposed to mean?  

Really - can you not just be pleased they're back.  I'm sure there'll be plenty of debate now about the whys wherefore wheres and whens - and rightly so - but you suggesting that a policy that kept people imprisoned for longer (even where, thankfully, they appear to have been treated well) would have been better is just absurd.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#40)

by JR on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 11:16:51 AM GMT

But in the long run, I think it will do us more damage than good.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#41)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 11:18:58 AM GMT

"They seemed to be enjoying themselves a little too much for comfort there anyway." is very offensive thing to say JR. Someone such as yourself should have more respect for the soldiers who put their lives on the line for policies you (and I) advocate.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#42)

by JR on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 11:29:41 AM GMT

Are you running for election or something? Because that really sounded like a politician's soundbite to me. Don't go over the top.

It's been reported this morning that people feel they were too quick to surrender to the Iranians and when they were captured, they should have stood their ground a bit more. Laughing, joking and praising the Iranian government is not something I want to see our sailors do. I always believed that when military personnel were captured, they should keep quiet and hold out no matter how bad things get. Clearly that's not the policy anymore.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#20)

by otware on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:08:03 PM GMT

What does it matter if a member of the public pretends to be grateful? She obviously isn't! They stole her son FFS!! It's just a game we had to play to give the Iranians their little power-trip and get us out personell back.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#10)

by Glass House on Wed Apr 04, 2007 at 11:30:50 PM GMT

"I think - apart from a few of the earlier statements which weren't all that helpful..."

Dunc - if you think that the UK government has, at any time, played this anything other than softly-softly, you're being seriously oversensitive.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#16)

by Loz on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:00:28 AM GMT

Absolutely.

If anything, they played it too sensitive.

Look, I'm delighted they're coming home, but we look very weak and to be honest a little pitiful.

This was an absolute outrage, and for me at least, the issue isn't over.

The committed an act of war, I'll forgive them for perhaps (although I know otherwise) having an innocent understanding, but I WILL NEVER forgive them for humiliating our country and parading our folks on tv.

It was a shambles, and the one liners the government repeated to every video became an embarassment.

Anyone who thinks we need to be thankful needs to apologise.

The poll that exposed the surrender attitude of a consideravle ammount of people is perhaps the most worrying aspect of this.

Take it from me, the Iran issue isn't going away and by all accounts the Iranian issue will be back in the news very shortly...


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#17)

by ComradeNorton on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 09:56:46 AM GMT

a short term victory for Iran in the middle east and a long-term victory for the UK.  Blair will now be able to continually point to his patience in the face of extreme provocation and how he is right to have the British there as a mitigating force rather than let the US get on with Iraq by himself.

What would have happened if it was US troops patrolling those waters and were captureed?  


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#18)

by Loz on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:07:30 AM GMT

That's an interesting angle, but I don't think anyone will buy it.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#38)

by JR on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:20:36 PM GMT

It's the opposite - no victory for anyone in the short term, but better for Iran in the long term. We just look weak now.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#43)

by ComradeNorton on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 12:35:30 PM GMT

weak how?  Because we choose not to bomb Iran?

Iran has acted irresponsibly, probably trying to provoke a fight to improve its domestic opinion but we look patient to the muslim world.  If we wanted a fight then we had no better pretext for one but instead choose to win friendship.

I think it would have played better to be a bit more dismissive of Iran as a childish act by a childish leadership and demonstrates how they cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons, which would probably have hit home more.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#22)

by doctordunc on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 01:20:23 PM GMT


Merely that if we were going to end up using the 'disputed border' line (which I think we did) the whole thing might have been resolved quicker if we'd said so from the start.  But I'm not a diplomat, I may be calling that wrong.

Generally, I think the government handled it pretty well.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#33)

by Glass House on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 03:47:45 PM GMT

I think those of us who are 'hawk-leaning' when it comes to Iran hoped that the UK would...
  • talk to Iran to try to get them to release the prisoners.
  • not give ANYTHING away/make concessions to Iran in order to get the 15 back. We felt that appeasing kidnappers would store up trouble for later.
  • would not take military action off the table if talks failed or if it became clear that Iran wasn't at all serious about talking.

That's what we wanted and, it seems, that's what we got.

I don't think most of us hawks felt that the UK was being soft. The arguement between us and the more doveish on this board was whether the UK should rack up the pressure if things dragged on.

Many of the doves on the board seemed to imply that giving concessions to Iran was acceptable and that military action of any kind was completely off the table - that is what the arguement was about.

The disagreement was what to do if they were not released quickly and unconditionally. As that is, seemingly, what has happened, neither side is vindicated.


Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#35)

by Loz on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:42:34 PM GMT

A perfect summary Glass House.

As for anyone who thinks the iranians scored a PR victory, I would simply tell you that you're talking bollocks.

The PR game has already been won by us Brits and over the next few days when the full facts come out, we'll only add to the Iranian defeat.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#44)

by JR on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 03:20:09 PM GMT

Just listening to the speech by the sailors. I think they said everything that needed to be said.

I just hope that now they have actually stated that they were in Iraqi waters, that people will believe them and finally condemn Iran for their horrific actions.


Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#45)

by Loz on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 03:54:52 PM GMT

It would disgust me that anyone would have thought anything but that in the first place.

 - Clearly they were subjected to a quite horrific ordeal, including what can only be described as a mock execution, a term the media are too cowardly to admit.

They made clear they were blindfolded, cuffed and weapons were being cocked in the background.

Faye Turney was subjected to a qwuite despicable ploy, made to believe the rest had been sent home.

This WAS phycological torture, an act of war and war crimes.

There should be immediate UN action to censure the Iranians.

Sadly, the UN is a corrupt gutless organisation that will do no such thing.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#46)

by JR on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 04:23:21 PM GMT

Exactly. It seems the West as a whole is also too weak these days. Nobody seems to be standing up to Iran. How far will they be allowed to push it before they go too far?

This situation has made it clearer to me, and I hope to others, that Iran can never be trusted as long as it has people like Ahmadinejad in charge. They've tried to play us for fools and to an extent, succeeded.

I hope the government now ensures that this is never allowed to happen again.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#47)

by Loz on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 04:37:02 PM GMT

A side note to this, I've been watching American coverage closely and I quite disgusts me that they are portraying us as cowards.

For example a man named Jack Jacobs (retired US military), a contribtor to msnbc in the states had this to say in response to the press conference:

"I don't know where to begin. I've gotta tell you, that was the most disgusting, disreputable, dishonorable performance I can remember in more than forty years of my relationship with the military service. I think every man, every woman who wears the uniform, or who has ever worn the uniform of his country, no matter what country it is, ought to be disgusted by this."

The Americans are being misled by their media who have also banded about this crap that they were ordered to stand down by the MOD.

I find this highly disturbing, and further more, an absolute outage.


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Re: Iran 'to release British Soldiers' (#48)

by JR on Fri Apr 06, 2007 at 11:45:08 PM GMT

Yes, I was reading that before on msnbc.com.

The Americans seem to be slamming us for cowardice.


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Iran 'to release British Soldiers' | 48 comments (48 topical)