Labour's decade of achievement

What's the highlight? Is it the introduction of the minimum wage? The ban on fox-hunting? The repeal of section 28? Devolution for Scotland and Wales? Peace in Northern Ireland?

Progress have invited several MPs and Progress supporters to list their favourites - what are yours?




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Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#1)

Setting up of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry which led to all the anti discriminatory legislation.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#2)

Proving that a minimum wage, even with year-on-year above inflation rises, doesn't collapse a market economy.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#3)

Am huge fan of war in Iraq, obviously.And renewal of Trident is  looking pretty good. Which planet are Progress supporters on????

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#5)

grimupnorth

Have we achieved nothing? I don't think we can accuse this site of being a forum for new Labour apologists but I do think we can agree that there are some things that 'we' have done in the past 10 years that are worth celebrating!

Mike

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#7)

I agree. Northern Ireland, civil partnerships , right to roam, minimum wage, Surestart.If we could wind the clock back to 2001  and leave it there  everything would be just fine. And  you might even have found me to be a New Labour supporter  ( with reservations) .
But IMHO Blair  blew it after that and since  2003 and Iraq being in the Labour Party has been a nightmare for anyone who values peace and social justice.
Fortunately, the Blair  nightmare will soon be over.If Brown becomes leader things  will be little differnet policywise but at least some of the wilder shores of Blairism ( as espoused by Reid/Hutton/Clarke) will probably be binned.
I willcontinue to campaign for the kind oflabpur Party I believe in.  Looking forward, not back  ( to coin a phrase) is in my view the best  way  ahead.There are many things  new labour has done which I would rather forget.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#8)

You make some fair points. I agree that we need now to build on the achievements and ensure any future programme reflects the desires and aspirations of all members and supporters.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#10)

What a petty pointless argument as always grim.

So you think there is nothing, absolutely nothing that you can find to be proud about 10 years of a Labour government?

If not, why do even bother staying in this party?

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#4)

Besides the Iraq war, I think my favourite has to be unaffordable housing and the credit bubble. Oh, and increasing the amount on which you can claim tax relief for pension contributions to £215,000 (anybody who can afford this sort of contribution saves as much tax in one year as most people get in state pension in their entire retirement).

On the other hand, free entry to museums (esp. if you live in London), the fact that one or two million more people now have a bank account and stiffing the telecoms companies out of £22 bn were all pretty cool.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#6)

Civil partnerships, NI peace have both been fantastic achievements in my opinion. I'd consider myself pretty hostile to the current leadership but I can't fault them on these things, so well done =)

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#9)

Other than the obvious minimum wage, Northern Ireland peace process. Gay rights is a massive achievement for this government, but also Devoloution. Although I completely disagree with the way Blair centralised the process of devoloution, and trying to prevent left-wingers, he has given us further local government. And as much as people say he hasn't tried to solve the West Lothian question, he did give a referendum to the North-East region on an assembly, so people shouldn't complain

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#11)

My personal highlights would be:

Northern Ireland peace process
Gay rights transformed
Minimum wage
Independence of Bank Of England
Huge increases in spending on education and health
Winning Olympics for London
Banning fox hunting

With regards to constitutional reform, I wish Blair had gone further. It's all very well giving devolution to Scotland and Wales - but England (neither the regions nor the cities) have been given anything, except London. And whilst it was good that most of the hereditary peers were removed, they should have all gone and the whole chamber should be democratically elected by now.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#12)

Constitutional reform promised so much, he's done well in this area though, but i think we need the electoral system reformed (a manifesto commitment), and an elected House of Lords. I think his biggest mistake (other than Iraq) was Top-Up Fees (not a manifesto commitment)

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#14)

I think Top Up fees is one example of the government taking a sensible but upopular long-term decision in the long term interests of the country - despite knowing it would take a huge hit over it.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#16)

Yes. I'm really pleased my nephew isn't bothering  with university because of the financial burden  his parents  ( and  he himself) will be under. A real triumph

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#17)

What financial burden would his parents be under?

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#18)

Utter rubbish grim. I'm a university student and my parents aren't wealthy enough to give me much money but I manage fine.

Parents don't have to have any burden now since tuition fees are now incorporated into the student loan - so parents pay nothing.

Glasshouse got it right - it was an unpopular decision, but one that makes sense in the long run.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#21)

Maybe you can't understand this  but the prospect of  being thousands of pounds in debt  doesn't appeal to him.
My sister/brother-in-law's  joint income  just  tips  over the threshold where you get help so  his dad   is currently working  seven days a week to pay the tuition fees and 1  more child @ university would put even more pressure on.My nephew, being a nice lad, has decided he had better find a job.Which is a  shame. Because  he's  very bright.
It's not just the tuition fees (which often are comparatively low I acccept) is it? The whole studnet loans thing is  a policy I fundamentally disagree with.Having benefitted (like most of the cabinet) from a free university education.But maybe you had to be there to understand  just how much better things  were when studnets  didn't have to work as well as study , or leave crippled by debt.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#22)

I'm sorry, but anyone who is bright enough to go to University is bright enough to understand that the relatively small amount of debt is worth it. If they don't maybe it's because people keep using phrases like "crippled by debt" - causing them undue worry and implying it's a lot worse that it is.

Will your nephew never buy a house because it will "cripple him with debt"? I doubt it - because he will understand that, over the long term, it is the right financial decision and he will profit from it over time. Why do people make such a fuss about the (MUCH lower) level of debt from going to University, which also gives the individual a profit over time (and possibly a much more enjoyable job/life) - all it does is put bright kids off.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#23)


I think this is a dangerously complacent comment, Glass.  I teach these kids, give them advice on where to apply, write their UCAS references, etc. and so have plenty of anecdotal evidence on which to draw.

Despite my reassurances about when and how debts are paid back, bright kids are frightened of thousands of pounds worth of debt - especially those who don't come from a background where debt is a positive thing (mortgages for houses - and ones where there is no danger of being repossessed; holidays new cars) rather than a negative thing.  Many of the brightest kids who've gone to uni in the last couple of years, that I'm aware of, have left university in their first and second years - with a third to a half of the debt, but none of the benefits.  I'm aware of many students choosing to live at home for university, to save money, and even more choosing to do part-time degrees in local colleges (to be taught by the likes of me!!!) where it is still possible to get grants, etc. to cover tuition costs, and - even where that is impossible - the tuition is cheaper, and they can hold down a job at the same time.  In the universities themselves, academic courses are increasingly being replaced with vocational ones (once the preserve of the colleges that are now teaching the academic degrees) because they can demonstrate a surer 'return' on their students 'investment'.  That is the new reality of university education for everyone but the wealthy - whether you think it's a good thing or not is a different matter.

But I disagree with top-up fees and student loans ON PRINCIPLE.  Do we, as a society, believe in education for profit or in education as a good thing in itself?  I believe in the latter.  My teachers, professors, my GP, the nurses and doctors who look after me when I'm ill, the people who design computer packages that help me to write all this... yes they are rewarded for the job that they do in their pay packets (although in some of those examples, not rewarded enough!) - but they are not the only people to benefit from the education they have had.  I am benefiting too, therefore it is perfectly reasonable that I should contribute to that cost, based on my ability to pay.  A brain-surgeon should pay money towards university education because he or she has a lot of money, not because they were educated and trained to reach that position.  An uneducated wealthy person gets just as much benefit from higher educatio as a graduate with the same earnings: they should pay the same.  

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#25)

Out of everybody I knew who went to uni, not one of them switched to a part-time degree or left altogether due to lack of funds. That's simply not true.

If any student runs out of money, it's probably because they're a binge spender and have blown their student loan on a PS3 or something. This is their own fault. To the vast majority of normal students, the loan is fine and money isn't a problem.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#27)


JR - it simply is true.  Those universities that have been most successful at attracting students from lower socio-economic sectors have also, tragically, got the highest drop-out rates: up to 20% in some of the newer universities.

The perception that juggling university work with paid work, all the while building up a debt, is not worth it is prevalent.  Glass House suggests this is false consciousness on the students' part (typical leftist cop-out wink) but we have take it seriously, and not pretend that it isn't happening.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#28)

So how do I manage it then?

I'm sorry but you're just ignoring the facts to follow your own opinion.

The reason why people quit uni is because they can't cope with the standard of work - not because of financial troubles.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#30)

How am I ignoring the facts?  Which facts?  The facts of your own personal circumstances, about which I am entirely ignorant?

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#34)

My personal experience and indeed the vast majority of other student experiences.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#37)

how do we know it's the vast majority though. It's legacy is yet to be seen, but it could get worse.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#24)

maybe you had to be there to understand

That's rich! It's the other way around. You had it easy because you didn't have to pay anything - I do! So therefore, I'd say to you, that you need to be here to understand that to the vast majority of students the idea of a student loan doesn't bother them in the slightest. I don't work in term time but my loan easily covers my accommodation costs, tuition fees and food, bills etc. (as well as from money in the holidays).

You're making it sound like all doom and gloom, but it really isn't like that. When I leave uni, I'll have a debt of around £12,000 which is nothing really when you consider what the average mortgage is. And you don't even start paying it back until you earn at least £15K a year.

The idea that students are being 'crippled with debt' is nonsense. And considering I have first hand experience of this, and you don't, then I think my argument is the most sensible!

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#26)


I'll have a debt of around £12,000 which is nothing really when you consider what the average mortgage is

This is just pie in the sky.  I left university (the third time) about six years ago.  I don't have a mortgage, I can't get one, and I currently can't imagine when I ever could.  The idea that one huge sum of money is 'nothing' because it's less than another huge sum of money is just daft.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#29)

No it isn't - it's all relative. When you say you can't get a mortgage - that's rubbish. I'm sure if you found a house with a low enough price then you could get a mortgage on that. Maybe you're just setting your standards too high.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#31)

I'm sure if you found a house with a low enough price then you could get a mortgage on that

Haha!  Well yes, JR.  I could afford a pot of gold as well, if it weren't so darn expensive.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#32)

JR, you clearly seem to be ignoring one of the biggest problems in the UK today: Housing. There are 700,000 unused buildings in the UK. Surely at least some of them could be used for other purposes. Instead, there seem to be a rapid programme of building new homes, then after a couple of years, some of the new homes are replaced with, new homes.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#35)

Well I don't quite agree with that. But I'm all for using the unused buildings for other means.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#33)

Top-up fees will be an electoral timebomb for Labour, mark my words.  A whole generation of educated young adults will hold the party with contempt for financially crippling them with debt for a signficant portion of their working lives.  I will go as far to say that this could potentially keep Labour out of power for a long time. Pretty much most of the recent graduates I know who consider themselves to be 'centre-left' support and vote LibDem instead of Labour, the party that would be their natural home pre-Blair, due to this issue.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#36)

Financially crippling? Where do you people get this from.

I'm a student, who isn't rich, and I certainly don't feel 'financially crippled'.

Stop sensationalising everything. You should work for the Daily Mail.

Re: Labour's gay rights record (#13)

why did more left-wing mp's vote against lowering the age of consent e.g. Gwyneth Dunwoody, David Drew, Ray Powell etc.?

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#15)

jkitleft - If you think that either Gwyneth Dunwoody or Ray Powell are/were 'left-wing' I think you should hit the history books!

Putting David Drew into a simple left-right slot would be difficult.

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#19)

chech the votes on lowering the consent on they work for you, seems a disproportionate amoutn of left wing mp's voted against the measure. And yes i know about Dunwoody, but she is left-wing by todays standards, as indeed are many other leaders of the right in the 80's. Remember, people like the campaign group member Austin Mitchell, were considered Gaitskellites in the 80's

Re: Labour's decade of achievement (#20)

I suspect that the correlation you are noting is not to do with 'left-wingers' but rather to do with 'mavericks'.  I concede they are two subsets that sometimes intersect, but I don't think so on this matter.