UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND

grimupnorth Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:05:33 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

The sheer magnitude of the problems facing Labour  if we do not change  policy direction is illustrated  starkly in Scotland - where UNISON is not supporting Labour.



The general council of the STUC has agreed by ONE VOTE  to back a Labour victory as being in the best interests of workers.

Public service union Unison was among those which refused to support the STUC taking a party political position.

SSP leader Colin Fox, not someone I would  normally have time for, is right to say this speaks  volumes about the current state of the Labour Party.

Yet people like Dave Prentis seem determined to press on with  tacit support for Gordon Brown, whose recent pronouncements have not been good news for the public sector.The portents  could not be clearer .The union activists  have had enough , and they want Real Labour back ASAP.


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UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND | 62 comments (62 topical)

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#1)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:14:02 PM GMT

Posted a small comment on this on McDonnell's blog... I think this speaks volumes...!

I did not know, however, that UNISON was one of the Unions not backing Lab in Scotland... As far as I am concerned, this makes the "message" stronger and more alarming.

Would it be wishful thinking to hope that this has made the eyes of some NuLabourites water???


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#2)

by Andrea on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:40:59 PM GMT

"I did not know, however, that UNISON was one of the Unions not backing Lab in Scotland"

yes, it seems Unison abstained of the final vote at the STUC council
Unison spokesman said: ""We are an affiliated union and we continue to be affiliated to Labour but we didn't think it was appropriate to make a statement including party support"


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#3)

by grimupnorth on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:29:45 PM GMT

Yes, I hope the gung-ho likes of John Gray take note. This is thr REAL message from the activists.Never mind Dave Prentis's ego.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#4)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:33:49 PM GMT

Agreed!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#5)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:35:40 PM GMT

Though on second thought... maybe UNISON has secret plans to affialiate to the LibDems... maybe they ought to turn to Lib-Lab Gray for advice!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#6)

by HenryG on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:28:19 PM GMT

I wonder if Unison will still be backing Alan Johnson for Labour Deputy leader, as was planned when the contest began?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#7)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:51:20 PM GMT

Haven't a clue as far as that's concerned I am afraid...

Hope not though - if they truly want to back someone who backs, and would back, them, McDonnell's their man!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#11)

by otware on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:32:57 PM GMT

I have no idea. I presume the decision on which candidate to nominate will be made by the executive of the national union, not just the union in scotland though.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#25)

by alexhilton on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:09:12 PM GMT

"Lib-Lab Gray"

Please tell me this isn't an inference meant to undermine someone's character because you don't like their politics...


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#27)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:11:56 PM GMT

Nope it's not... Gray was a member of the LibDem after having originally left Labour in their favour! hahahahahaha


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#8)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:22:08 PM GMT

So let me get this straight. The unions want the right to vote in our elections and they want the right to be able to bribe us with large cheques when they need a policy putting through, but now they're not even going to bother supporting the party when it comes to election time?

This is pathetic. You're right grim, it does just about sum up the state of this party. If the unions aren't even going to bother supporting us anymore, then why do we still keep a constitutional link with them? We should abandon the lot of them and let them cosy up to the likes of Tommy Sheridan if they want.

Is this how the unions repay us? When the going gets tough and things aren't going our way in Scotland, they can't be bothered to back us? If that's the case, they're even more spineless than I thought.

The constitutional separation between Labour and the trade unions can't come soon enough.


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#9)

by otware on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:30:04 PM GMT

You think that it was the unions bribing Labour? That would explain all the trade union freedom legislation, workers rights and socialism in the New Labour agenda I guess...(jokes). I think you will find it was millionaire businessmen who bought peerages and influence, not the unions.

Unison is currently (but not for long) the biggest Union. It is affiliated to the Labour Party. However, it is hardly the most militant. T&G and Amicus have reputations for being much more leftie than Unison. So why is Unison doing this? Quite obviously because they are fed up with the shit policies, and they see New Labour as hindering the progress of the Labour movement in Scotland. Hardly the revelation of the century. I worked that one out years ago!

They are still funding the Labour Party, all they are doing is refusing to let the New Labour agenda go out in their name anymore. And good on them!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#16)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:45:44 PM GMT

Good on them?! I can't believe I just read that. You are seriously happy that they've abandoned our party? Unbelievable.

Plenty of millionaires have bribed Labour too - which is also bad. But the unions are just as guilty. They bribe us to get us to push through leftie dross, which we wouldn't otherwise have done.

I'm glad the unions are fed up with our policies. I couldn't care less what they think. They have no real influence in British politics. The sooner more unions abandon us, the sooner we can get on with scrapping the undemocratic and corrupt constitutional link.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#18)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:35:06 PM GMT


JR, could you give an example of 'leftie dross' which we have enacted as a result of union 'bribery'?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#31)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:54:39 PM GMT

The Warwick Agreement was signed because the unions agreed to keep funding us.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#57)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:15:49 AM GMT

So you disagree with the Warwick Agreement??????


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#28)

by otware on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:18:15 PM GMT

For the love of christ they haven't abandoned Labour! They are STILL affiliated. Is that so hard to understand? They continue to fund Labour. All that has happened is that the Scottish section of Unison has said that they do not approve of the direction that Blair and Co are steering the Labour Party. What is wrong with that?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#29)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:22:04 PM GMT

I second this fully!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#32)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:55:39 PM GMT

By refusing to support our leadership at election time - that is the ultimate betrayal. They have abandoned Scottish Labour at their time of need. This is incredibly wrong in my view.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#58)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:17:15 AM GMT

ask youirself wby  JR. Ask yourself why UNISON  no longer feel they can support New Labour. Would public sector pay cits, PFI, privatisation perchance  have a  bit to do with it


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#62)

by JR on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 07:11:52 PM GMT

Yes, of course it would! But why should we change just to suit them? They've come to realise that even with the big cheques they thrown at us, they can't buy policies anymore. So they're giving up. And rightly so.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#12)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:35:15 PM GMT

Labour is, has always been and will always be the Party of the Unions- even when NuLab finally lies in its cold dark unmarked grave.

Your limited knowledge about Lab's history is pathetic - as are your posts! You social-democrat, you!

UNISON hasn't done anything quite as bad as disaffiliation - which is, in reality, a move on their part that has your full support! You spend your days slagging off the unions and then when they give your race (NuLab - for the sake of greater comprehension on your part) a taste of its own medicine.

As far as UNISON not backing Labour is concerned, I think it is unfortunate. So don't thry to depict me as someone disloyal to the Party. The only one of us who is, is you, JR!

However, I suppose UNISON can only be blamed top a very small extent. If Labour fails to deliver, it's easy to see why UNISON wouldn't deliver in turn.

New Labour - Old Tories


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#17)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:56:50 PM GMT

"If Labour fails to deliver???" We've won three general elections in a row for Christ's sake. What more do they want? What a bunch of ungrateful cowards.

My knowledge of Labour's history is just fine thank you. And I couldn't care less how Labour used to be - I care about it now and in the future. As long as we're constitutionally attached to the unions, we'll always be dragged down.

Why am I disloyal to the party? Because I'm honest? Because I care about the future of this party and don't want to see the unions hold us back? Because I don't feel the need to suck up to a load of union cronies? Or because I care passionately and absolutely in democracy? It will be people like you who destroy our party by giving in and sucking up to the union leaders who only care about their own inflated ego's.

New Labour equals Labour in government. Old Labour and unions let us down time and time again. They deserve no more trust. I think we both know that as the years go on, the link between Labour and the selfish trade unions will get weaker and weaker, and rightly so.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#23)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:06:06 PM GMT

Hmmmm. don't misrepresent my words...

Labour has simply not done enough for the unions or the working-class for that matter... I still believe they're far preferable to the Tories, as do many others - which is why Lab remains in government despite NuLab.

Labour history is simply not your forte... there aren't two ways about it! Do the words "knowing the past to control the present and shape the future" ring a bell, JR. Your knowledge of Party history seem to stretch as far back as (ca.) 1983, and, then again, it seems to lack quite some scope anyhow.

I care about Labour future too - I want Labour to be around in the future. Unlike you lot who want to gradually merge it with the Tories.

Tell me JR, if McDonnell became leader, how long would it take you to dfefect to the Monday Club??? I'm sure you'd have a fine time there. Or, why not try the NF while you're at it??? Seems like jolly good fun for a guy like you, pal!


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#33)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:58:35 PM GMT

This is incredible. So I get accused of being a member of the National Front now? If you think that's a joking matter then I think that says more about you than anything else.

Are you capable of making one post that isn't incredibly rude and deeply offensive?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#38)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:05:03 PM GMT

I just fell that the Left needs its JR, and if he must be me than he must be me!

Well, as far as the NF is concerned I was hinting at T.B's comments published in the Guardian a few days back.

I am always courteous to Meacher backers, though I don't agree with them...

I can admit to one outrightly insulting (concerning Levy) which has been removed, haven't complained!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#45)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:20:17 PM GMT

"comments on Black culture"...


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#48)

by alexhilton on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:22:41 PM GMT

Mikael, I had problems with those comments too - it would be welcome if you wrote an article on it, i was thinking about doing so myself.

But ambiguous asides and inferences have the capacity to cause unintended offense.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#51)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:29:17 PM GMT

Thanks for the suggestion. I am currently writing an article about Attlee and his government, but I will get back to you...

I just feel this site needs some Lab History!


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#10)

by Loz on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:31:13 PM GMT

So we should allow ourselves to be held hostage by the unions?

With friends like these.....


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#13)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:38:32 PM GMT

Being held "hostage" by the unions - who generously fund our Party - is far far better than being the captive of NuLab - who just as generously fund the Party by selling honours!

It seems as if you have LOZt the plot!


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#15)

by Loz on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:45:39 PM GMT

Yes they have, and do you think it is appropriate to have the agenda of the government held to ransom by a union?

That's EXACTLY where this 'change of direction' would lead.

They've been extremely loyal and supportive, but who are we to (quite rightly) criticise the tories for letting their money dictate the agenda when we too are in the pocket of an external source?

It's not good for the party and it most certainly is not good for democracy.

Unless of course you'd like american style democracy? Free in one sense, but extremely corrupt in another.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#19)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:49:29 PM GMT

"american style democracy[?] Free in one sense, but extremely corrupt in another."

Summarising New labour aim for Britain, are we?

Cash for homours - nudge, nudge!

Claims of WMDs to be found in Iraq and therefore justifying the war - Nudge, Nudge!

As I said:

NuLab - (same) Old Tories.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#30)

by Loz on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:31:20 PM GMT

Mikael, that's all nonsense and you know it.

I ask you, who has been charged?

As for WMDs, I guess you think intelligence agencies were also lying?

Your post is filled with meaningless rhetoric.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#34)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:59:23 PM GMT

Mikael, you're not related to Anzi are you by any chance?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#39)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:05:51 PM GMT

Anzi ??? ... fill me in...


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#41)

by alexhilton on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:13:23 PM GMT

Anzi and some others were trolls whose shenanigans operated from the same IP address range. Mikael does not share that IP address


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#42)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:16:03 PM GMT

Thanks Hilton,  I appreciate that!  


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#14)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:40:08 PM GMT

Quite right Loz. The unions are no friend of the Labour party.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#43)

by otware on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:17:01 PM GMT

Why?


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#46)

by alexhilton on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:20:29 PM GMT

"The unions are no friend of the Labour party."

That comment utterly shocks me. The unions have stuck by us for a hundred years whether they have agreed with our party policies or not.

The union movement has millions of members and is far more representative of the average British citizen than the Labour Party and because of this it is an asset to the party.

Of course there are problems, what large organisations don't have issues. Yes, I'd like to see some unions clean up their democratic records and some act more like a family and less like an insurance company.

But good and bad, they are part of us and we can't reject them any more than we can reject our lungs.  I'd like to see a rapproachment with RMT and FBU for a start.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#47)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:22:23 PM GMT

Very sensible... I agree, RMT and FBU ought to reconsider...


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#49)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:26:08 PM GMT

The unions have stuck by us for a hundred years whether they have agreed with our party policies or not.

Yeh, just like they did today. If what UNISON did can be described as 'sticking by us whether they agree with party polcies or not', then that's a joke.

But good and bad, they are part of us and we can't reject them any more than we can reject our lungs.

Good or bad? So even if they are terrible, we still have to be attached to them? No, of course not. Times are changing and I'm by no means the only one who thinks this. Just because unions used to be firmly with us, doesn't mean they always have to be, as so aptly demonstrated today.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#54)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:32:39 PM GMT


Well the unions are themselves democratic organisations, and sometimes face campaigns from within about the link with Labour.  But Alex is absolutely right about the fundamental link between the unions and Labour.  The RMT and FBU should come straight back.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#55)

by otware on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 10:40:03 PM GMT

I agree entirely. I think maybe one day when a new generation of politicians take over (hopefully soon :p) and the troubles with Iraq etc. are confined to the past, then these unions will come back.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#59)

by grimupnorth on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:20:14 AM GMT

No, UNISON is saying (quite rightly) it will nolonger support New Labour policy which is antipathetic toits interests. "Holding the country to ransom"  was a favoured  phrase of Thatcher's.Clearly you agree with such ideology.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#22)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:57:10 PM GMT


JR wants state funding plus a individual donations (no more than £100,000 - is that right JR?)  Because apparently that means any members can donate, not just wealthy backers...  And I happen to have a spare £100,000 knocking about...


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#24)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:07:53 PM GMT

which would emply Labour being shackled to the state... like a vulgar Student Union!!!????!!!!! NIIIICE!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#26)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:09:47 PM GMT

P.SD. I had guessed that was what he wanted anyhow... sad how a man wants to ruin his party, both politically and financially ast that!!!


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#35)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:02:00 PM GMT

You know that's completely against what I said.

I said a cap on £5000 per member and I have been consistent right the way through. There's an enormous difference between £100,000 and £5000.

doctordunc, I never misconstrue your words to gain support, so I would appreciate if you would do the same.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#37)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:04:27 PM GMT


Sorry, JR - that was a genuine mistake.  £5000 is still a lot of money, but I agree it's very different from £100,000.

Obviously, I completely disagree with you about state funding, but I apologise for the misrepresentation.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#40)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:06:59 PM GMT

I'm afraid that's an outrightly ridiculous sum compare to £100,000


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#52)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:30:00 PM GMT

No problem.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#56)

by sgthowie on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 11:46:13 PM GMT

Its still a bloody mess though.  Obviously JR enjoys being provocative but it was the trade unions that formed the Labour Party.  Breaking the link would mean we would stop being the 'Labour' party.

Unison rightly has concerns about the facts facing the UK including Scotand. That we have some of the worst employment rights in Europe and the gap between rich and poor keeps expanding.  

They will also be unhappy that policies that would radically benefit their members passed at conference are ignored by the leadership such as the fourth option to renovate existing council houses and start building new ones and the immediate restoration of the earnings link with the state pension.

After 10 years in power we should have the confidence to represent our core support the same way the Tories represented the rich and privileged.  Unfortunately we don't and still have this uneasy compromise with Thatcherism.  It is time to move on.  The country is now more left wing.

Sgt Howie


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#63)

by JR on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 07:15:55 PM GMT

Obviously JR enjoys being provocative

No, I encourage people to think about the stupidity of their 'beliefs'.

Breaking the link would mean we would stop being the 'Labour' party.

No it wouldn't. Scare tactics don't work I'm afraid sgthowie.

The country is now more left wing.

You guys just don't get it do you? Is that why Cameron is thrashing us in every poll? It's like talking to a brick wall.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#60)

by grayee on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:10:36 PM GMT

This story is just nonsense! There are some who would rather have an unelectable leader of the Labour Party.  Who would then clearly loose a general election, in order for them to remain ideologically pure!  UNISON is constitutionally part of the Labour Party and despite family rows, long May it remain so!


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#61)

by e10rifles on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 09:39:33 AM GMT

Those who oppose New Labour do it not just to be "ideologically pure" but because so many of their policies are electorally unpopular.


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#64)

by SethSJ on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 08:37:49 PM GMT

I registered to post and give some context to this thread.

The facts are:

The debate at the private meeting of the STUC General Council prior to Congress was on the question of having a statement put to Annual Congress NOT if the STUC General Council should "support Labour" as has been reported.

This is the first time the STUC have had a statement of this nature and it was carried in the hall with only RMT and a handful of individual trades council delegates voting against.

The STUC Annual Congress voted overwhelmingly to reject a separate Scotland as part of a motion on the economy.


Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#65)

by grayee on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 10:49:37 PM GMT

Grim
In light of this are you a real journo? or do you really want to write for the Daily Mail? UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND et al


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#66)

by Mikael on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:01:32 PM GMT

How about "Gray political figures on Labour's right defects to the LibDems", I bet you think that's quite a story!


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Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#67)

by grimupnorth on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 12:22:55 AM GMT

Yes, I am a real journalist. My source  was the BBC......I think the story stands up. UNISON in Scotland did not want to back Labour.


[ Parent ]

Re: UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND (#68)

by SethSJ on Sat Apr 21, 2007 at 07:45:12 PM GMT

I can assure you the the BBC news story was wrong - Unison didn't want to damage Labour by forcing a statement through.

Brian Taylor's blog on the BBC gives an indication of what really happened - scroll down to "cock up or conspiracy"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/election07/scotland/


UNISON ABANDONS LABOUR IN SCOTLAND | 62 comments (62 topical)