I give up: I have to have a rant

red flagger Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:38:37 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

I've been a member of the Labour Party for almost 9 months now, but I've been visiting this website for longer. I always viewed it as a useful way of determining the mood inside the party, speaking to fellow party members and discussing the policies that effect us and our party. But that seems to no longer be the case.



It seems recently that almost every thread has been hijacked by worthless, useless and irritating factional in-fighting. There are a number of members on this site who seem to enjoy nothing more than indulging in petty jibes to try and offend others, especially towards support for different leadership candidates. I'm sick and tired of reading this rubbish, and I think it would be better if people grew up and had a proper debate about policies and the future direction of the party without resorting to a load of 'Brown is rubbish' and 'John McNohoper' comments.

And relax.  


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I give up: I have to have a rant | 23 comments (23 topical)

Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#1)

by jkitleft on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:54:53 PM GMT

I have made this point about 897 times. Well done for making a thread about it.


Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#2)

by alexhilton on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:05:31 PM GMT

Thanks Red Flagger. I have wanted recently to pull my hair out over this...


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#4)

by grimupnorth on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:22:57 PM GMT

I have been a member of the Labour Party for 30 years and  do not post for any other reason than to point out why  I think Labour is in trouble. That reason being policy , which is why I  do not want to see New Labour continue. My recent posts have deliberately  veered away from personalities as I agree some  recent contributions  have been pretty pointless on both sides  - but I make no apology for supporting John McDonnell as he is the best hope  Labour's left has had  for a generation.And will contiune to be after the leadership election.Whatever happens.  


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#3)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:21:53 PM GMT


I agree as well.  The problem is that some readers will look at me writing that and think 'he's one of the main culprits' or whatever.  The problem is that one person's debate about policies and future direction is another person's personal attack - it shouldn't be that way, but I fear it is.

I suggest that people try (and I know I've been guilty of this quite recently, so I'm saying this to myself as much as to anybody else) and not respond to messages that they find rude or provocative, or politely suggest they start a new thread on that subject.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#8)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:10:53 PM GMT

I admit to losing my temper more than often... but then again, I have only used this site in the last few months and, if I'm not wrong, as fast as some found out I was Lefty, they started slagging me off...


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#5)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:51:32 PM GMT

But what happens if you genuinely think Brown is rubbish and McDonnell is hopeless? Are we just supposed to stay quiet and watch the party rot?

I find discussions are usually quite spirited and mostly enjoyable. But what troubles me is the endless threads created that are all about the same thing. Look over the past month how many threads have been created which praise McDonnell. It gets ridiculous at times.


Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#7)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:57:26 PM GMT


I think you're supposed to explain why, JR, and use comradely language.  I don't think anybody's suggesting that there are subjects that should be 'no go areas'.

I apologise for the two threads on the endorsements, we must literally have posted them at the same time.  But generally, I guess you just read those threads you're interested in.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#9)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:20:06 PM GMT

True, but I never create threads praising Miliband for example. Some McDonnell threads (not necessarily yours) do tend to get repetitive.

It's difficult to remain comradely when you get people like Mikael calling everybody who he doesn't agree with 'Tory' and before he told me to join the National Front. How can people stay comradely when offensive insults like this are hurled around?


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#10)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:27:07 PM GMT

You've called me childish and insulted McD, a man for whom I have profound respect.

I'm sorry if I come off as harsh, but, you did attack my very first post a few weeks back pretty badly... Furthermore, you have from time to time suggested elements of Tory policy which you preferred to labour. Correct me if i'm wrong but you even said that Maggie was closer to you than Foot - correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I avoid finger pointing and naming, JR!

Friends forever? I mean it - i'm just hot-blooded!


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#13)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:41:25 PM GMT

OK. I'm sorry too for any offense.

I was asked who I would have voted for in 1983 and I said Labour (although I still severely disagree with Foot's policies and leadership).


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#14)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:43:24 PM GMT

OK Pal!

But this doesn't mean we'll stop disagreeing, does it???


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#15)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:47:30 PM GMT

Then we find ourselves in a different yet equal position... I support Labour despite Blair.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#18)

by JR on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 10:30:57 PM GMT

But this doesn't mean we'll stop disagreeing, does it???

I doubt it!


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#19)

by Mikael on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 10:34:37 PM GMT

Good!


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#11)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:28:28 PM GMT


On the threads thing - my blog's main purpose is to be a campaigning blog for John McDonnell's leadership campaign.  I've branched out from time to time (e.g. 'Arguments for Socialism', etc.) as I expect to continue blogging after the leadership election, but most of my blog entries are about the campaign.

I don't want to comment on individual comments, because that just perpetuates the argument, but I think we all just need to look to our own posts and try and avoid being provocative or insulting ourselves.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#6)

by red flagger on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:51:44 PM GMT

I made a conscious effort not to name those who are, in my opinion, the worst offenders, and I hope that fellow labourhome members appreciate this. AS a left-winger I'm probably more sensitive to criticism from the right, but I realise it works both ways.


Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#12)

by Mike Ion on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:40:34 PM GMT

red flagger - I think it perfectly OK for members/supporters to explain why they think McD or Brown or whoever would make a good or lousy leader as long as the focus is on what they say, propose and argue. For example I like what McD has had to say recently on education and will happily say so. What is NOT helpful is to attack each other or to villify or demonise Labour leadership contenders.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#16)

by jkitleft on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:50:48 PM GMT

Another thing. I don't think we should agree with every left-wing idea if you're a left-winger, or every right-wing idea in the Labour party, if you're a right-winger in the Labour party. That may sound a bit random, but there has got to be room for co-operation. I don't agree with everything McD says, nor do I agree with everything Brown says. What i mean by my earlier comment is that, I believe in things like Campaign Finance reform (to be extended to individuals and trade unions), but don't believe in things like PFI.


Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#17)

by doctordunc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:55:22 PM GMT


Well I think people must be able to take whatever positions they like!  If they happen to mostly agree with some other posters, they shouldn't feel they have to disagree with a few things!


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#20)

by jkitleft on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 11:33:32 PM GMT

If you do trully believe in everything McD says, then why not? That's not my point, (a very badly explained point) my point is that some people might get defensive if someone disagreed with a policy of McD's, and the same for Brown, Clarke, Milburn, Blair, Milliband supporters. My point is that obviously someone like Neil Gerrard is going to trust what McD says more than he would trust what Blair says, even if Blair was making a better case on a paticular policy.


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#21)

by grayee on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:36:56 PM GMT

Sorry to spoil all this "kiss and make up" stuff but I think while the extreme left can dish it out they cannot take criticism.  Compared to what has been said about Tony Blair and Gordon Brown my comments (admittedly rude and mischievous) about "YouKnowWho MP" (Alex will delete the original) have been pretty mild!  Also, compared to the c**p that I have had to put up from diss-Respect during the past few years - it is nothing!


Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#22)

by Mikael on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:46:03 PM GMT

Uhummm, but I see no members on ofn RESPECT posting on this site... so limit your disruptive comments and spoiler attitude to your private slandering-games with them.

Did they not teach you anything back at the Liberals....????


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Re: I give up: I have to have a rant (#24)

by red flagger on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:08:49 PM GMT

No-one on the left has any problem with criticism as long as it doesn't just consist of childish name-calling, and I'm sure collegues on the right would agree.


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I give up: I have to have a rant | 23 comments (23 topical)