Brown or Miliband?

Mark Wadsworth Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:21:43 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

...putting John McDonnell to one side for now, whom would people on this site prefer, even if it means choosing the lesser of two evils.





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Brown or Miliband? | 39 comments (39 topical)

Re: Brown or Miliband? (#1)

by otware on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:36:53 PM GMT

Brown. At least with Brown he makes his own decisions. As much as Brown will be 'Blair II', Miliband will essentially be a stooge for Blair, Clarke, Reid and Milburn - just what the country needs!


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#2)

by Wiseman on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:39:57 PM GMT

Neither they are both new labour lovelies.  If I was forced to vote Brown.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#3)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:41:44 PM GMT

Miliband. In terms of electability and likelihood to take the country in a positive direction, he trumps Brown in every way.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#4)

by doctordunc on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:45:47 PM GMT


I honestly don't know.  Can't see anything to be said for a contest of that sort (brother of Blair vs. son of Blair).

I suppose I would vote, but would have to wait and see the campaign and what they had to say once they were free of collective responsibility.

Luckily, I don't think that is going to be the contest in front of us.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#5)

by JamesM on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:56:40 PM GMT

I would vote for Miliband for reasons that Otware so accurately describes - "Miliband will essentially be a stooge for Blair, Clarke, Reid and Milburn - just what the country needs!"

With the exception of Charles Clarke, that is exactly what the country needs and I would campaign enthusiastically for it.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#6)

by otware on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:02:43 PM GMT

Well if your aim is David Cameron as PM then I assure you, Miliband is the main you want in charge! No that's unfair, Brown would do just as well at loosing the next election.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#7)

by otware on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:03:19 PM GMT

*Miliband is the man you want...


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#8)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:05:39 PM GMT

Actually, I think that Miliband is one of the few people who, if put in charge of the Labour Party, might stave off a Cameron government after the next general election.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#23)

by otware on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 11:41:44 AM GMT

Why so? Nobody really knows who he is, and most fatally he supports the New Labour policies that the public just don't like anymore.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#26)

by Glass House on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 01:13:22 PM GMT

Which New Labour policies don't the public support anymore?


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#9)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:06:32 PM GMT

"There Is An Alternative" pro-Miliband blog:
http://thereisanalternative.wordpress.com


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#10)

by Mark Wadsworth on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:17:25 PM GMT

Thanks for comments, but I am a bit disappointed that only two people have bothered to vote so far (I was the third).


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#11)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:19:42 PM GMT

I was the second


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#12)

by doctordunc on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:19:52 PM GMT


Sorry - would normally love to vote - but just don't know how in this case.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#24)

by otware on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 11:43:11 AM GMT

I voted for Brown....for some reason.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#13)

by red flagger on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:24:44 PM GMT

If it came to it, I would probably have to vote Brown, although I'll have to make my decision once he strats outlining his policies.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#20)

by Mark Wadsworth on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 08:34:10 PM GMT

"I'll have to make my decision once he starts outlining his policies"

I think Brown has had sufficient input over the last ten years for all of us to know what his policies are.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#32)

by doctordunc on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 06:02:54 PM GMT

Doesn't help though.  I've no reason to think Miliband's policy position will be any different (both have been key parts of New Labour).  I can't think of a single sensible reason for the two of them to be up against each other, and I suspect I wouldn't bother getting involved in the personality clash.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#33)

by JR on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 12:35:30 AM GMT

It's far more than a personality clash. It's about who can build momentum to give us a fourth term victory. Miliband can. Brown can't.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#14)

by HenryG on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 04:28:39 PM GMT

Brown.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#15)

by jkitleft on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 05:02:20 PM GMT

i'm sorry, when was electability more important than principles and experience?


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#16)

by jkitleft on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 05:02:37 PM GMT

BTW, Brown.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#18)

by Glass House on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 05:13:45 PM GMT

principles and experience can only be implemented once and election win is under the belt


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#19)

by Mark Wadsworth on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 08:32:56 PM GMT

Q - "when was electability more important than principles and experience?"

A - in 1997.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#28)

by petercoe on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 02:33:06 PM GMT

Err, no, electability is inseparable from principles and to a lesser extent experience (though in 1997, I concede that Labour was a little lacking in experience).

Whether it's Brown or Miliband, the next Labour Leader is going to have infinitely more experience of cabinet government than Cameron, Campbell and possibly the entire shadow cabinet put together.

The only people who raise the issue of "principles" are those so far on the left that they've lost all perspective and believe they represent the heart of the Labour Party.  They never have, but let them have their fantasies; it's all they've got.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#17)

by CitizenAndreas on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 05:08:59 PM GMT

Brown


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#21)

by petercoe on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 08:55:52 PM GMT

Miliband.  Brown is as much the past as Blair is. To get the country listening again to Labour we need someone of the generation not associated with Iraq, or spin (of which Brown, not Blair was the originator) or the leadership that was elected in 1994 - a political generation ago.

Aside from that, Miliband is a better communicator with ordinary people (as opposed to party hacks), and is far more likely to be able to come up with a new new Labour agenda than Brown, who seems to have nothing of any consequence to say about the political direction of the country.

And he's not Scottish, which is going to become increasingly important to English electors, especially if the SNP wins the Scottish elections and pushes a separatist agenda.  

Brown may (and I dispute this, but there's at least some evidence to suggest it) go down better in the heartlands, but we've got those anyway: we need someone who'll hold the key English marginals.  Brown can't.  Miliband could.

And the Tories fear Miliband - they can't wait for Brown.  If Labour isn't in the business of helping the Tories win next time (and I can't honestly say they're not, at the moment) then it needs to be Miliband.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#25)

by otware on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 11:46:15 AM GMT

I think Labour have ignored the heartlands long enough. I don't think it needs another leader who takes it for granted that the staunch Labour constituencies will keep returning Labour MPs, MEPs and councillors no matter what the Labour government does.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#27)

by petercoe on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 02:19:00 PM GMT

Yeah, because last time Labour talked solely to its heartlands in 1983 (and arguably not even to them) they did so spectacularly well, didn't they?

Do you want Labour to return to perennial opposition?  After all, you won't be without company on the left if you do, because you can be pure ideological and utterly, utterly irrelevant, which is much easier than governing, isn't it?

Anyway, I'm really tired of this left-perpetuated myth that Labour voters need different policies to the mainstream of the country - here's the news: Labour voters are the mainstream of the country -  it's you, the loony left who purport to know what's best for them that is way off on the extreme.  


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#30)

by JR on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 07:31:18 PM GMT

Quite true.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#31)

by Glass House on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 12:25:27 PM GMT

If the Labour heartlands are so left-wing, why did so much of it flip over to Thatcher in the 80s?

And why did it come back to us once we became New Labour in the 90s?


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#22)

by JR on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 12:14:22 AM GMT

I'd have to wait and see what both say first, but I think I'd go for Miliband.

Miliband represents the new generation that can take us forward. The Tories are scared of him in the same way that they were scared of Blair in 1994.

He isn't tainted by any mistakes from the past like Brown is and looks younger, fresher and more in touch with 21st century Britain.

The pressure for him to stand seems to be building and if the votes on here are anything to go by, he wouldn't do too badly. Especially since there are a disproportionate amount of lefties on here as well.


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#29)

by ComradeNorton on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 06:03:52 PM GMT

Miliband.  However unfair it is, the media just has it in for Brown.  I suspect that Miliband would have a nice honeymoon period as well in which there can be an election and Brown will just not have this.

Similarly, if you are going to put one person who we haven't a clue what he stands for up against another in Cameron who we haven't a clue what he stands for, I think Miliband looks the better of the two (although I note that I said that in a gruff and manly northern voice, being a northerner ;)

The key thing for me is Cameron is a vacuous  Eton toff who believes he has a devine right to rule together with his Kensington and Chelsea set wereas Miliband went to a Comprehensive and I suspect that one could fight an entire election around that fact alone.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#35)

by pipesmoke on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:09:57 AM GMT

The key thing for me is Cameron is a vacuous  Eton toff who believes he has a devine right to rule together with his Kensington and Chelsea set wereas Miliband went to a Comprehensive and I suspect that one could fight an entire election around that fact alone.

.....and you'd lose. Miliband is a lightweight.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#36)

by petercoe on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 05:35:12 PM GMT

Hang on a minute: instead of just making sweeping statements, evidence your assertion.

Intellectually, there's no way you can claim that Miliband's a lightweight - he's one of the brightest politicans in Westminster, head and shoulders more intelligent than Cameron.

Where you may have a case is in terms of oratorical style: certainly Brown is much more of a tub-thumper than Miliband.  But let's just look at how much of an asset that is - contrast how Labour MPs and party activists reacted to Brown's "aren't I so clever with my income tax con at the end" budget speech with how it went down with the public.

Brown has spent the last fourteen years perfecting how to say absolutely nothing of any substance in interviews, avoiding answering, talking down to the electorate.  Miliband, if you've ever seen him on Newsnight, for example, has a completely different style: answering questions and completely disarming Paxman in the process.  

I think the public prefer people who communicate directly with them, calmly, frankly and openly, ahead of rowdy, "clunking great fists" - the oratorical style of 2007 versus that of the 1970s and 1980s.


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#38)

by ComradeNorton on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 06:50:38 PM GMT

you're damn right there is no way I can call Miliband a lightweight because some swine has added that after.  

That's a bit low isn't it or is something just wrong with the site?


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#34)

by Mikael on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:06:59 AM GMT

Brown or Miliband, eh? I'd have to say.... John McDonnell!


Re: Brown or Miliband? (#37)

by petercoe on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 05:36:10 PM GMT

You're the one, are you?


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Re: Brown or Miliband? (#39)

by Mikael on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 07:09:07 PM GMT

One among many, yes... your point being....???


[ Parent ]

Brown or Miliband? | 39 comments (39 topical)