Tony Benn at the People's Assembly

doctordunc Thu Mar 22, 2007 at 07:30:51 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook




What a passionate speech from the great Tony Benn at the People's Assembly on 20th March

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Tony Benn at the People's Assembly | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#1)

by doctordunc on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 06:25:37 PM GMT

Other Labour voices at the People's Assembly:

John McDonnell, MP
Jeremy Corbyn, MP
Harry Cohen, MP
Katy Clark, MP
Gavin Strang, MP
Michael Meacher, MP
Bob Wareing, MP
Walter Wolfgang, NEC
Tony Woodley, TGWU
Jeremy Dear, NUJ
Lord Ahmed


Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#2)

by grimupnorth on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:20:15 PM GMT

Tony Benn  was  on Question Time last night.He was extraordinary. Was reminded  how gutted we all were that he never became Leader.He makes the current New Labour  generation look like  unprincipled weasels. Which  most of them are.


Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#3)

by Loz on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 12:36:06 AM GMT

He was not far away from celebrating the prospect of our defeat in iraq and pretty much did US defeat in vietnam.

He was utter crap, and the best he could do with John Bolton was throw insults.

He served the party very well (in his career) I won't deny, but he's a far left extremist.

He kept saying how we need to go through the UN, but he forgets the rapid corruption at the org, the sort of corruption that results in an evil regime like the chinese and international gangsters the russians wield a veto. He's clueless and out of touch.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#4)

by doctordunc on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 12:49:26 AM GMT

Ridiculous.  John Bolton threw the insults (I know because I can hear the repeat on News 24 flowing up the stairs!) and not just at Tony (asking how a grieving mother of a soldier killed in Iraq could keep a straight face was one of his more endearing moments: repulsive little man). If Tony did insult John Bolton: good.  I don't believe in all this cosying up on the sofa for a gossip about politics as if it was a soap opera: these were people with fundamentally opposite analyses of a global situation that is seeing people be killed every day: I'm glad people are passionate and angry about it.

Tony was a very long way away of celebrating defeats: he was opposing the war altogether and proposing ways of ending it and avoiding it; and the UN - imperfect though it is (and the US and the UK have been instrumental in maitaining its imperfections) is the best we have.  Let's not forget it was our government and the US government that vetoed UN resolutions condemning the gassing at Halabja, not Russia or China.

When people try to claim that it was those countries (such as France) that undermined the UN in 2002/3 it makes me tear my hair out.  This was an organisation that was brought into being to prevent war and resolve conflicts, and yet we're supposed to believe that it is those who try to use UN resolutions as triggers for war who really understand its historic purpose!

Based on the reports of UNMOVIC in 2003 it would have been grossly irresponsible of the UNSC to pass a war motion, and thank goodness a majority on the UNSC realised that and did not destroy the good name of the organisation forever by sanctioning Bush and Blair's bloody folly.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#5)

by Loz on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:06:40 AM GMT

"John Bolton threw the insults"

No he didn't. I watched the programme, and it was benn, who made reference to vietnam. Bolton responded by saying there was no point responding.

" If Tony did insult John Bolton: good.  I don't believe in all this cosying up on the sofa for a gossip about politics as if it was a soap opera: these were people with fundamentally opposite analyses of a global situation that is seeing people be killed every day: I'm glad people are passionate and angry about it."

The difference being Bolton made his case using fact and reasoned arguement, benn articulated his by insult and emotive cries.

That is a sure sign of a sinking arguement.

"Let's not forget it was our government and the US government that vetoed UN resolutions condemning the gassing at Halabja, not Russia or China."

I have not heard of that.

Check the vetoes for yourself:

http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/geoff/UNresolutions.htm

"When people try to claim that it was those countries (such as France) that undermined the UN in 2002/3 it makes me tear my hair out.  This was an organisation that was brought into being to prevent war and resolve conflicts, and yet we're supposed to believe that it is those who try to use UN resolutions as triggers for war who really understand its historic purpose!"

Doesn't bother me either way.

But lets not forget the quite odious underhand dealings of the french and chinese in iraq or the fact the russians GAVE AWAY our military plans.

The UN is a corrupt organisation, it is both banal,and baleful.

Yes, the US has its fair share of dodgy dealings, I am no apologist for some of their historical undertakings, but other have too which only further proves the point.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#6)

by doctordunc on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:22:50 AM GMT

Without just having a slanging match about Bolton (I totally disagree with you and find it odd that a Labour person would defend an extremely right-wing imperialist against a socialist) - I have to apologise about my shorthand of almost Blair-like proportions with reference to a UN resolution.  

The UNSC was unable to get a resolution condemning Iraq on Halabja because there was never any doubt that it would be vetoed (instead they had to have ones equally condemning Iraq and Iran over the incident).  When the President of the Security Council did finally make a statement on Iraq's use of chemical weapons (which can't be vetoed) the US was the only country to vote against, and the UK was one of a very few countries to abstain.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#8)

by Loz on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:31:52 AM GMT

"Without just having a slanging match about Bolton (I totally disagree with you and find it odd that a Labour person would defend an extremely right-wing imperialist against a socialist) -"

I call them as I see them. Socialist, communist, conservative, facist or whatever else. I am loyal to what is right, not to what politcal ideology I happen to support.

"The UNSC was unable to get a resolution condemning Iraq on Halabja because there was never any doubt that it would be vetoed (instead they had to have ones equally condemning Iraq and Iran over the incident).  When the President of the Security Council did finally make a statement on Iraq's use of chemical weapons (which can't be vetoed) the US was the only country to vote against, and the UK was one of a very few countries to abstain."

Correct. I have never denied we and our brother across the atlantic have made some very bad moves, but I could just as easily list off similar "errors in judgement" by russia, china and a plethora of other nations.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#7)

by doctordunc on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:28:36 AM GMT

I might add that, even on a second viewing, I didn't hear a single fact or reasoned argument from John Bolton.  Just a string of absurd assertions, abuse of his audience, and an odd tendency to find the deaths of tens of thousands of people wryly amusing.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#9)

by Loz on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:33:05 AM GMT

He made a number of factual points, both historic and contemporary.

It was a good programme, I'm sure we can agree on that at least.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#10)

by doctordunc on Sat Mar 24, 2007 at 01:37:55 AM GMT


It was a good programme, yes - and John Bolton is at least pretty frank about the war and robust in his defence of it - little spin or obfuscation.  I must say I went from seriously disliking him before the programme to feeling rather more strongly on the matter now.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#11)

by Wiseman on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:49:58 PM GMT

Loz facts

1 History states that Tony Benn was a great socialist
2 Don't stick up for John Bolton
3 Tony is backing John's campaign
4 Read a history of british socialism


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#12)

by Loz on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:31:07 PM GMT

Wiseman, not such a wise reply.

  1. I don't disagree.
  2. I'll stick up for whatever is right. If John Bolton gets something right, I'll stick up for it. If we cease to have a sense of reason, we become plebs.
  3. Good for him, probably not the first or last losing campaign he'll be on.
  4. It's on a long list of things I intend to read about.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn at the People's Assembly (#13)

by Jason on Wed May 16, 2007 at 10:15:30 PM GMT

I don't know if I can consider that passionate. Maybe a bunch of bullocks.
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Re: John Bolton (#14)

by jkitleft on Thu May 24, 2007 at 03:40:58 PM GMT

Back to this topic again, when the Democrats were debating withdrawl in the ongoing saga of what to do about Iraq, Gavin Esler interviewed Bolton, and Bolton was crap. Bolton just get's very angry, and red faced. I reccomend Sidney Blumenthal's 'How Bush Rules' as it give excellent descriptions of Bolton, and his politics.


Tony Benn at the People's Assembly | 14 comments (14 topical)