Lords Reform: Decision time

Article on Lords reform by Jack Straw MP, Leader of the House of Commons

This week MPs will vote on Lords reform. This is an opportunity to take a step forward on a subject on which Labour has campaigned throughout our history. The free votes, promised in our manifesto in 2005, are there to set out the direction of travel on the issue.


There is, however, a myriad of views on how the second chamber should be reformed, from those who favour a House which remains 100% appointed to those who wish to see an entirely elected Lords. Within that there are those who favour a part-elected, part-appointed `hybrid' House. These differences of view are reflected in all parties.

In our February White Paper we proposed a `hybrid' House, believing that this safeguards the primacy of the Commons and allows for a second chamber which can call on the expertise and experience of non party-political members, while introducing a direct relationship between the Lords and the electorate. This has also been the view of several influential studies, notably the Royal Commission of 2000, the Public Administration Select Committee report of 2002 and the all-party Breaking the Deadlock group in 2005.

I have changed my own view since the last free votes in 2003. I have come to the conclusion that it is difficult to justify a second chamber where the public has no direct input into who sits in that chamber.

Among those who support this argument, there are a range of views about the proportion of the House which should be elected. Some favour 80%, others 60%. The Breaking the Deadlock group suggested 70%. I have proposed a 50% elected second chamber.

My appeal to all those who support election as part of Lords reform is this: don't make the best the enemy of the good. If our votes splinter and are spread across the `hybrid' options, all might fall: if we set aside our view of perfection and instead vote for progress, we have a better chance of success.

That is why I will be voting for elected elements of 50%, 60% and 80% next week. If we secure a vote favouring an elected element in the Lords, we will have taken a momentous step forward, whatever the proportion which receives most support. If all options are defeated as in 2003, discussions about the size of any elected element in the second chamber will be merely academic.  The free votes therefore represent a crucial step towards breaking the deadlock on this issue.

I appreciate that this argument is irrelevant to those who are opposed to election of any kind to the second chamber. I respect their view that the introduction of elections could threaten Commons primacy. I have no interest in doing anything which threatens this fundamental concept or which creates a rival to the Commons.  It is not, however, a zero sum game. Introducing elections to the Lords will not lead inevitably to a reduction in Commons power: indeed, the role of the Commons as the primary chamber is underpinned by the Parliament Acts. The evidence of second chambers overseas is that election does not necessarily lead to increased power: some all-appointed second chambers are much more powerful than others which include an elected element.

There is now a wide consensus that the status quo on the Lords is unsustainable, and that the way forward is with a `hybrid' House. Radical constitutional reform has been one of the defining characteristics of Labour in power since 1997. But this time we need a clear decision on Lords reform; not a repeat of the 2003 impasse.

Here is the recent Labourhome interview with Jack Straw.



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Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#1)

Dear Jack

What is the point of a vote on the future of a second chamber when there is no consensus about what a second chamber is for?

Let's legislate for the function and powers of a second chamber in this session of parliament and set out what it might look like in our next manifesto.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#2)

Is that not just an excuse to delay reform for another 'x amount of years'.  How many reports have there been on the House of Lords in terms of its functions?  Just of the top of my head I seem to recall the Wakeham Commission, Norton Comission, Modernistion Committee all reporting on Lords Reform.  Also did Jack Cunningham committee not recently look at the powers of the House of Lords?  It just seems to me that some MPs in both the Labour and Tory party trot out this excuse about Lords functions as to somehow delay reform.

A bicameral system works effectly in many countries, with two elected parliaments.  So why not in Britain?

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#4)

Dear MM,

Quite the opposite. Worthy reports on the functions of a second chamber are not the same as primary legislation to set them out.

There are some MPs who will be voting after the debate who do not even agree with the need for a bi-cameral system.

Neither that issue or that of functions will be settled by Jack Straw's approach.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#3)

I hope MP's have the guts to go for 100%. And when we do have fully elected members of the upper house - then we can give it more powers.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#5)

Ok, just as an experiment, I'm posting this having not read any of the article (other than the title) or the comments. I want to see if the article will actually have any impact on me.

My current view is that I can't think of a single reason not to have a 100% elected chamber. The thought that someone like Straw, who I previously has a lot of time and respect for, is proposing such a ridiculous balance fills me with confusion and horror.

Let's see what I think after reading the article...

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#6)

Ok read it...

Utter rubbish. If he'd stuck to his guns about the alternative vote system for this ONE vote, we wouldn't be risking losing the whole Lords reform thing. There wasn't a single good reason not to use it.

The need for this kind of pleading not to "slip to the vote" is entirely his own making. Whether it was his own decision or he's been leant on, I've never been to frustrated with the government as over this issue. Such an obvious, popular, common-sense solution - why don't they just elect the whole of the Lords?

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#7)

I have to conclude that it's to do with patronage.  I can't think of any logical explanation for believing half the house should be made up of appointed people, unless it was me who got to appoint them!!  So I have to assume that it is those who value the power of making appointments (or recommending people for appointment) who don't want to let the public take over that role, and therefore devolve some of their power to the public.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#8)

Sorry, that should have read "split the vote" obviously

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#9)

I doubt if MPs woud risk kicking Lords Reform into the long grass yet again. The Alternative Vote was too cumbersome for MPs to understand; there are nine possinble votes, clear, straight forward and decisive. I'm with Straw on this; anything from 50% to 80% elected is ok by me. But I'd object to 100% elected because that would challenge the supremacy of the Commons.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#10)

Why?  Craven District Council is 100% elected, and doesn't challenge the primacy of the Commons.  The European Parliament is 100% elected and doesn't either.  You just have to clarify the darn thing's role in statute.

And if AV is too complex for MPs to understand, I assume we've abandoned all plans for AV+ for general elections :o)

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#11)

With you 100% there. The district council argument will now be my stock response to questions of primacy.

Although i STILL haven't heard an argument for why the Commons should have primacy. The US seems to get along OK will two (supposedly) equal houses.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#12)


Well I think there is another debate to be had about the role of the new second chamber and exactly what limitations should be placed upon it.  Personally I'm not sure that gridlock within the legislature is particularly desirable (though a greater separation between the legislature and the executive would be) - therefore I'd include a mechanism to resolve potential gridlock; similar to the Parliament Act, but with much clearer rules about when it is appropriate to use it, etc.  But discussions about whether legislation could start in either House, etc. can all be had in the context of two democratic chambers.  There's no necessity to have the discussion - the chambers could maintain their current constitutional status - but you could consider whether it might be desirable.  

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#13)

Agreed. The most important thing is to make the Lord democratic - the current roles can be changed later

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#14)

I used to support a 100% elected second chamber that was until we debated this at our branch and one member proposed that there should be an independent appointments commission to make "cross-bench" style appointments of people with special expertise. These appointments could be for a fixed period.
Obviously this asks the question of who appoints the independent appointments commission and what is the definition of "special expertise"
I don't have an answer for the former but the latter would include those with real expertise in climate change or conflict resolution.

The branch also supported the secondary vote closed list system as supported by, amongst others, Billy Bragg.

As regards the supremacy of one chamber above the other, this needs codifying and writing into statute. If we get this sorted out then the second chamber can have a real role in scrutinising and proposing changes to legislation without totally blocking Government legislation.

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#15)

Dear Leeds Labour,

If people with special expertise have a role in a second chamber, they can stand for election, just like people for the first chamber, surely?

I like to think we all live in a democracy, well everyone except perhaps the establishment who seem to enjoy post-medieval preferment. Or at least they did until that vote.

The fact that we have a surfeit of lawyers, and shortage of working people in the first chamber is something that all parties could address through selection procedures. At least we have started to tackle gender and ethnicity, perhaps we now need to take a closer look at competence and expertise? Just think of how those CLP selection ads could read!

Re: Lords Reform: Decision time (#16)

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