ID Cards an electoral disaster?

MM Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 04:17:04 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

With the Tories and Lib Dems fully committed to scrapping ID Cards.  How much will this affect Labour at the polls?  Is it really a plastic poll tax, or do Labour need to start taking on Tory and Lib Dem arguments more robustly?

Charles Clarke is presenting 'The Insider' on C4 (7:30 tonight) which looks at identity fraud/ID Cards/DNA national databases and the national system of medical records verses.

The Insider: fighting identity fraud:
http://www.the2020vision.org.uk/index.php/pages/news-article/the-insider-fighting-identity-fraud/

Defending Democracy, Protecting Civil Liberties:
http://www.the2020vision.org.uk/index.php/pages/speech/defending-democracy-protecting-civil-libertie s/

Tony Blair's repsone to the e-petition against ID Cards:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/

My own view is that Labour have alot of problems with this issue, there seems to be a school of thought that by saying that ID cards can prevent terrorism or illegal immigration it will automatically be accepted.  Do we have faith in the Home Office/Government to manage big IT projects given it's past record?  

Even if some aspects of the ID card scheme may seem sensible it almost seems imposible to get the positive's across to the public.  Is there a case for major u-turn?  Or if the Government is confident of it's case should it be bolder in making the arguments?






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ID Cards an electoral disaster? | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#1)

by CitizenAndreas on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 04:33:13 PM GMT

A few years ago 80% of people were in favour of the measure, although this has dropped considerably over the last few years to about 50%.

Talking to people, there are very few passionately pro ID cards people, most people are apathetic to the idea.

I am for ID cards, as someone who works in IT I can realise the clear benefits such a scheme will produce.

I am also very sceptical of the anti ID card lobby, since several articles on the subject in various newspapers have misrepresented the situation.


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#2)

by Mark Wadsworth on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 05:15:27 PM GMT

ID cards are a load of rubbish, will achieve absolutely nothing.

Yes, a U-turn is in order. What's wrong with listening to the voice of the people every now and then, especially where it is impossible to say whether a measure is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#5)

by CitizenAndreas on Sat Mar 03, 2007 at 02:06:48 PM GMT

Mark, a while ago you sent me details on your citizens income scheme (have not had much chance to study in detail yet, will get back to you on this).  

Consider for a moment the administration of such a scheme. People would be able to sign up for their citizens income, but how would you prevent multiple signatories. People can present documents, but these can often be forged, or obtained legitimately with a falsified identity. People move house all the time, and it would be easy to fool the system into obtaining multiple citizens incomes.

The National Identity Register is essentially a list of everyone over 16 in the country, with a set of checks in place to protect against people registering themselves multiple times.

It quite easily lends itself to being a key part of the administration of a citizens income scheme. It will also be invalulable in checking the eligibility of anyone claiming a government based benefit and guaranteeing their eligibility for that benefit.


[ Parent ]

an electoral disaster? (#3)

by Cruella on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 09:08:43 PM GMT

we've had this so many times before. sofa government decisions followed by endless attempts to sell lame justifications for the policy.

Why not just accept this is a bad idea & adopting it as a policy was a bad call? Lets forget the spin & the rhetoric.People can object to this because its unworkable without being soft on crime or soft on terror.

I hope Brown looks at this policy & makes the right decision on financial grounds. it wouldnt do his image any herm either-drawing a line under blair & what he stood for.

Its like the NHS computer fiasco. there comes a point where you've got to stop the news management & media manipulation and simply ask "is this system needed, feasible & worth it?" Sadly, blair bought into the policy & then engaged the marketing folk to come out to tell us how this would stop deaths etc. Its important that ministers dont start believing their own spin


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#4)

by Loz on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 09:29:34 PM GMT

If they can really get their heads around project management and the IT involved I am most certainly in favour of it.


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#6)

by JR on Sat Mar 03, 2007 at 06:06:58 PM GMT

I'm fully supported of ID cards and I'm sure Brown will push on with this.


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#7)

by Glass House on Sat Mar 03, 2007 at 09:18:35 PM GMT

Im yet to be convinced.

I'd have to be presented with some pretty strong evidence of some real benefits to get me past the civil liberties and cost issues.

Although I'm willing to believe that that kind of evidence is out there, I haven't seen it yet and it'd have to be damn convincing.


Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#8)

by HenryG on Tue Mar 06, 2007 at 09:25:46 PM GMT

I agree I think the cost issue is a factor Glass House. As soon as people thought they would have to stump up over a hundred quid they became lukewarm.  I think if we are saying it's vital to combat fraud and terrorism then the state should pay.


[ Parent ]

Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#9)

by CitizenAndreas on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 12:42:46 PM GMT

Tis worth pointing out that the £93 price tag is a bit of anti ID spin. £93 is the cost of an ID card and passport (which currently costs around £60 anyway).

Opponents always quote £93 in order to scaremonger. £30 is the actual ID card only cost.


[ Parent ]

Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#10)

by Glass House on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 03:22:28 PM GMT

By "cost issue", I meant the cost to the country, not the cost to the individual.

Although my mind remains open, I'd have to see some extremely convincing evidence for me to be persuaded that the billions to be spent on ID cards couldn't not be spend on something more useful and with fewer civil liberties concerns.


[ Parent ]

Re: ID Cards an electoral disaster? (#11)

by flibble on Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 02:05:48 PM GMT

This is one of the few issues that can make me change my allegiance at an election.

As an IT professional I know the chances of this being implemented correctly, on-time and on-budget are virtually zero.

But that is not why I disagree with it, with an ID card it becomes so much easier to introduce intrusive requirements on everyday life.

Take for example a requirement to have an ID card to take a photograph in a public space http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Photography/


ID Cards an electoral disaster? | 11 comments (11 topical)