Climate Change and the Conservatives

There is a worrying tendency on the right to view climate change as some kind of Big Government conspiracy. I think there is a real danger that any future Tory government would not take the issue seriously. That could be catastrophic.

I've detected a real anti-climate change atmosphere among conservative commentators recently, and it concerns me. Despite the lip service played by Cameron and the Tory Party, I just don't think their hearts are in it. Here are some of the arguments that the right put forward, and the reasons why they are wrong:

Climate change is just another excuse for unnecessary government intervention and `stealth' taxes. Left to individual choice, I see no hope of reversing our carbon emissions in time to make a difference. This is one issue that requires clear national leadership from those who wield the carrots and the sticks that are necessary to change our collective behaviour.

Leave it to the market. Just like over-fishing, the trouble with climate change is that the negative effects are cumulative over many years, and do not send timely signals to markets. The market does not charge producers of carbon emissions the real environmental cost of the pollution they produce. So the market is only likely to react when the consequences of climate change are with us. That's just too late.

Technology will dig us out of this one. That's one hell of a gamble on which to base the future of mankind.

We're not the bad guys, it's China and India who have to change. This is the Daily Mail reader argument: "why should I change if no one else does?" Take that to the global stage, and you have a situation where everyone is waiting for someone else to take the lead. We should lead by example, and take our own responsibilities seriously, even if others don't.

Asking me to fly less is an outrageous restriction on my personal freedom. There is little or no understanding that our collective actions today could have an extremely detrimental effect on future generations. It's a populist argument that belittles the scale of the challenge that faces us.

To be honest, the Labour Government has not covered itself in glory here either - Tony Blair's comments on air travel recently were a particular disappointment - but I think it has the commitment, it has embraced the scientific evidence, and it's beginning to explore how to use the levers at its disposal to make a difference. The first steps, like the raised air duty, have been a bit clumsy, but at least it's a start.  I think it's more than we're likely to get from a Conservative government.

http://bread-and-circuses.net



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Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#1)

I agree.

I think Cameron is probably genuine in his views on climate change but his backbenchers wont vote throught the measures needed to make a real difference on climate change.

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#2)

Remember,  not everybody on the left is convinced of the climate change argument either

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#4)

Your quite right, if any part of the political spectrum should be suspicious of simplistic "world ending" analysis, promoting regressive taxation and elitism and potentially advocating rationing of resources it should be us on the left....

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#3)

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#5)

I'm afraid you typify how the left loses it on this important issue.

When you say "clear national leadership from those who wield the carrots and the sticks" what you mean is imposing unpopular - and very likely meaningless, trite, posturing - policies on an electorate from whom you have no mandate, and won't get one either if this is the way you present your case.

When you claim "The market does not charge producers of carbon emissions the real environmental cost of the pollution they produce" this is odd, given that carbon trading is essentially the only game in town in respect of tackling carbon emissions - and embodies how a social market does actually force change.

And are you seriously arguing that all carbon emitters should be charged the real cost of their emissions - or do you just mean the ones the Green lobby loves to hate: airlines and the car industry, for example?  

Just asking because, as Newsnight's Justin Rowlatt revealed last week, applying your principles uniformly would pretty much wipe out the competitiveness of organic farming; also I can't help but note that air travel emissions (which seem to be an obsession beyond all rationale of the bandwagon environmentalists) are dwarfed by the damage methane emitted from cattle does.  

Your solution, presumably: slaughter all animals and impose veganism on the world? (Mind you, at least that solution would have an impact on climate change, unlike anything you proposed...)

"Technology will dig us out of this one. That's one hell of a gamble on which to base the future of mankind." Ah, the flat earth argument - let's go back to living in caves and the world will be saved. Brilliant!

You don't seem to get it: people will not surrender their quality of life to the extent required to have a substantial short-run impact on global warming; hence the policy debate is all about technology mitigating climate change coupled with reasonable compromise on a long-run constraint, shared globally, of environmentally-damaging economic growth.

But what exactly is it that you have against technology?:-

  • Do you oppose clean coal technology that enables carbon to be reinjected back into the earth?  
  • Do you oppose advances in architectural design that make homes more energy efficient?
  • Or technology that makes renewable energy - which is nearly universally accepted as being insufficient in efficiency to be able to replace fossil fuels as a major power source - viable?  
  • I bet you oppose nuclear power, despite zero emissions?
  • Or biofuels making cars less reliant on petrol?  

In fact, from the reporting of the UN report last week (which, in case anyone got misled by the reporting of it isn't actually published for a month) one of the working groups has come up with several exciting and innovative examples of how technology might not just mitigate but begin to reverse climate change.

Seriously - outbursts like "technology is evil" are what makes the Green movement unfit to be heard.

"Asking me to fly less is an outrageous restriction on my personal freedom." Well, you state that apparently to take issue with it but as I presume you do actually know, air emissions are an absurdly miniscule contributor to climate change - why don't you obsess about the genuinely big problems instead of wittering on about what remains, essentially, an irrelevance?

The underlying flaw in your de rigeur diatribe is that we should tax, tax and tax again our way out of global warming, despite having no idea how much tax you're actually talking about, no credible model that demonstrates that such taxation will work and no appreciation of the catastrophic damage that will do - in other words a typical left-wing knee-jerk reaction to a problem you clearly don't understand.

You live in a democracy - it means you need to carry people with you and not just charge ahead with breathtaking arrogance imposing your own unpopular and unworkable, back-of-the-envelope 'solutions' on everyone else. We need to carry the public with us by debating the issues honestly and openly; rather than telling everyone what the government's got to force us all to do, based on a blinkered ideological misrepresentation of the science of climate change.

And please, can we try to elevate this debate a little above the level of "my party's better than your party".  It's pretty pathetic.

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#6)

I really don't know how to respond to such an angry post. He seems to have got completely the wrong end of the stick of Juvenal's original post.

He decries Juvenal for saying that the whole thing can't be solved by just technology and then goes onto to sing the praises of carbon trading - which is a non-technological way of approaching the problem.

I think petercoe replied to what he WANTED Juvenal to say.

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#7)

I think he is responding to somthing like the Nigel Lawson'stern report speech. "Scratch the surface of even the most harmless cuddly Green and you find an agenda which is a totalitarian and based on "Gaia" mysticism cloaking an essentially anti-human tendency which values.. "Gaia" as more important than humanity. Third World Poverty is picturesque and simple as well as low in carbon emissions, but harsh on the human condition"...  

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#8)

Peter, you've totally missed the point of the article, but hope you feel better for the rant.

In short:

  • I didn't mention taxes as the solution
  • I certainly don't exclude technology, but it's not  likely to be enough by itself
  • Please don't assume that you know me and my wider views, on which you are totally wrong
  • You decry my party political view: the site's called LabourHome for a reason
  • In summary, your obsession with government 'control' and taxes is exactly what I was drawing people's attention to.  Thanks for giving me a live example to point to.

I'd like to respond at greater length, but I've got a pan of lentils on the go back in my yurt.  

Re: Climate Change and the Conservatives (#9)

"The market does not charge producers of carbon emissions the real environmental cost of the pollution they produce" this is odd, given that carbon trading is essentially the only game in town in respect of tackling carbon emissions - and embodies how a social market does actually force change."

Peter, the notion that prices for fossil fuels should factor in the cost of externalities is hardly a radical left wing idea.

Try this guy for size:

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/09/rogoff-joins-pigou-club.html

One of the most cited living economists, Harvard Professor and pretty right wing republican advisor.  He has got some of the world's most emminent economists, many of them right wing, to sign up to his Pigou club.

My advice to you would be get out there and read a little more and keep the arguments a little less person. You were rambling like a madman in many places.