Policy Debate

MM Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 01:50:36 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Two former Cabinet Minister's have called for an 'open debate' on the party's future.

'Milburn and Clarke urge debate'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6400167.stm

'Milburn and Clarke e-mail'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6400299.stm

Nick Robinson's view: 'New ideas needed'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2007/02/the_future_for.html

I'm guessing this wo'nt be too popular here?






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Policy Debate | 28 comments (28 topical)

Re: Policy Debate (#1)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 02:04:10 PM GMT

I'm guessing this wo'nt be too popular here?

why not?


Re: Policy Debate (#3)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:04:36 PM GMT

Just because in a previous thread Charles Clarke got a huge amount of abuse because of daring to suggest Labour might want to consider introducing charging for some public services.  Also I just assumed that both Milburn and Clarke would not be the most popular Labour politicans here, perhaps I misjudged my fellow Labour members.

Personally I'm a big fan of Charles Clarke.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#4)

by grimupnorth on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:15:56 PM GMT

Clarke  deserved the abuse with that statement on the NHS but is  OK  on Trident. Today, we have"British"  Brown setting  up labour camps for immigrants.Is Milburn  now to the left  of Brown? Looks  like anyone is  frankly and my MP is going to vote for him.So is  most of the PLP.
 I  think I'll go and  lie down  in a  very darkened  room  for a while.Because,  in a two-horse race  between Brown and Milburn, Milburn  is starting to  look the better  candidate. Hey, he even has a  Trotskyist past.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#7)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:23:43 PM GMT

I  think I'll go and  lie down  in a  very darkened  room  for a while.Because,  in a two-horse race  between Brown and Milburn, Milburn  is starting to  look the better  candidate.

Welcome to the dark side. :)


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#8)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:30:12 PM GMT

I think alot of what Clarke said on charging in the NHS was taken out of context by Newsnight and some newspapers.  It's worth reading the whole speech if you have time (it's alot more interesting than a dull Brown speech on Britishness, how many times can that be recyled?)

'Economic Policy and Taxation after Blair':
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSEPublicLecturesAndEvents/pdf/20070207_CharlesClarke.pdf


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#5)

by Andrea on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:15:58 PM GMT

"Just because in a previous thread Charles Clarke got a huge amount of abuse because of daring to suggest Labour might want to consider introducing charging for some public services"

I think calling for a debate will be popular here. Maybe what Clarke and Milburn can propose won't be welcomed, but the idea of a debate itself isn't unpopular IMO


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#2)

by Juvenal on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 02:35:41 PM GMT

"I'm guessing this wo'nt be too popular here?" - very odd comment.

And, for the record, does MM stand for Michael Meacher?

I think Robinson makes a very good point.  Blair is concentrating on ensuring his legacy remains when Brown succeeds him.  Gordon is trying to reassure people that it will be 'steady as she goes' once he's in the top job.  And that leaves new policy development a long way down the agenda.


Re: Policy Debate (#6)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:16:30 PM GMT

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you and reveal that I'm not Micheal Meacher.  I'm just a humble undergraduate studying politics.  Perhaps I should change my username or set up a new account to avoid confusion?

As for my comment about the Clarke/Milburn policy debate not being popular here, perhaps I should apologise for that.  I may have been a little hasty in my judgement of this website, I assumed given that Clarke/Milburn were involved that alot of people would not take to kindly to it.  Personally I think it's rather good idea.  As i've been impressed with some of speeches and ideas that have come from Clarke in recent months.

The FT political editor had a interesting article about Blair urging Brown to set out his stall on Labour's future policy direction.  Normally one of the reason's the so-called Brownites give for the Chancellor not speaking outside his brief is becuase he his not PM and because of Blair.

'Blair tells Brown he can speak out on policy'
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/aa29f00a-c219-11db-ae23-000b5df10621.html


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#9)

by Juvenal on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 03:44:13 PM GMT

If accusing you of being Michael Meacher is offensive (it would be to me), I sincerely apologise.  I once got a comment on my blog, via LabourHome, from an 'MM' who happened to be Meacher's blog administrator.  Hence my question.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#10)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 04:12:44 PM GMT

Not to worry.  As bigger fool as Mr Meacher is, at least he deserves credit for going on Newsnight on Friday, can anybody remember the last time Gordon Brown appeared on the BBC's top current affairs show?  If he's scared to appear now, what's he going to do come election time?

I do'nt know how many people watched Michael Cockerell excellent documentary (on this evening at 9:00 on BBC 2):

Blair: The Inside Story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=today&service_id=4224&filename=2007 0227/20070227_2100_4224_1875_60

But last week they had stuff on the fuel protest and what was remarkable that it highlighted the fact that the Chacellor had gone to ground.  He did not give a single TV interview defending the fuel duty esclator leaving it all to Blair, Prescott and Straw to sort out.  Does not bode well for the future.


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Re: Policy Debate (#11)

by grimupnorth on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 06:19:33 PM GMT

I did  not see Michael Meacher but did  see John McDonnell last  night  on Newsnight talking about  private equity companies.He  trounced  Sion Simon  by being measured, calm and eminently polite.Sion, meanwhile, spluttered  in outrage that a left-winger  had dared to challenge him.He was trashed  by Paxman.Whuch was  good to see.
I'm surprised Michael  did Newsnight  if only because the previous  night there was a derisory report  on his campaign.I hope he enjoys the current  round of interviews because  he is going to have to stand down soon due to floodgates of protest  from Party members and trade unionist who want a proper leadership contest - not some wrecking operation.


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#12)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 07:08:00 PM GMT

Meacher was on Newsnight on Friday discussing the so-called 'Star Wars' weapons system with Kirsty Wark and Liam Fox.  Meacher's campaign lauch was pretty laughable a number of parliamentary sketch writers have had huge fun with him.  I found Ian Gibson's ditching of him quite amusing.

Despite McDonnell being the most rebellious Labour MP he does strike me as being very polite and well-mannered and he came across like that on Newsnight last night.  I disagree with him on what he said about private equity, I think Sion Simon made the important point about the contributions that private equity make to pensions.  It was a shame that the Government could not put up a Treasury Minister to put the case for private equity.

The question I guess is when will Mr Brown submit himself to detailed examination of his economic polices/leadership policies?


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#13)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:14:32 PM GMT

'Former ministers call for debate on Brown's succession'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/story/0,,2022548,00.html


Re: Policy Debate (#14)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 08:43:07 PM GMT

'Ex-ministers call meeting on post-Blair era'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1445413.ece

'Prospect of Brown as leader fails to lift MPs on the margins' (Times did a survey of 100 Labour MPs with the smallest majorities and found a lack of enthusiasm for the Chancellor and a desire for a Cabinet level contest)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1438012.ece


Re: Policy Debate (#15)

by MM on Tue Feb 27, 2007 at 10:55:52 PM GMT

'What are Clarke and Milburn really up to'?
http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2007/02/nick_robinson_c.html#comments

'Brown needs a proper fight, not a grudging handover':
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1449697.ece


Re: Policy Debate (#16)

by MM on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:08:47 AM GMT

The Guardian's reaction to the policy debate:

'Brown camp fear Miliband after challenge on policy'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/story/0,,2023099,00.html

'Milburn and Clarke scorned for destabilisation tactics'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/story/0,,2023088,00.html

'Singing the midterm blues'
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labourleadership/comment/0,,2022938,00.html


Re: Policy Debate (#24)

by MM on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:20:20 PM GMT

Anti-Brownites plan Miliband 'spring offensive'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=439105&in_page_id=17 70&in_page_id=1770&expand=true#StartComments

Don't trust the polls
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/david_mckie/2007/02/could_brown_be_the_new_segolen.html

Ex-ministers launch website
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007090623,00.html

Blairites push for debate over party policy
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article2311293.ece


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#17)

by Redflag85 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:00:50 AM GMT

If the left are traitors to the leadership, and the right are traitors to socialism, Milburn and Clarke are seditious to both.

Hang, draw and quarter them.


Re: Policy Debate (#18)

by red flagger on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:59:52 AM GMT

Bit extreme, comrade. I may not agree with many of the right's views, but they are allowed to have them, and I don't wish physical violence on anyone.


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Re: Policy Debate (#27)

by Glass House on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 10:44:51 AM GMT

* wipes brow *


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#19)

by oratorhunt on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:27:15 PM GMT

anyone got a link t this website they are supposed to be launching?


Re: Policy Debate (#20)

by Glass House on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:20:56 PM GMT

http://www.the2020vision.co.uk/


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#21)

by MM on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 02:28:17 PM GMT

Ex-ministers deny 'troublemaking'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6400167.stm

Milburn and Clarke: A threat to Brown?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6403553.stm

The Daily Politics had Peter Hain and Stephen Byers discussing this venture by Clarke/Milburn this afternoon:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/


Re: Policy Debate (#25)

by MM on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:55:02 PM GMT

Comment: no serious threat to Gordon Brown ... yet
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1452688.ece

Ex-ministers launch 'stop Brown' drive
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/28/nemail128.xml

Ex-Labour ministers stage 'challenge' to Brown over leadership and policy
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1452092.ece


[ Parent ]

Re: Policy Debate (#22)

by Peter Kenyon on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 03:26:39 PM GMT

Open debate?

I posted this to The 2020 Vision site - at the time of last checking it had not been published by the site moderator.

The ultimate spin: 2020 vision = 20/20 hindsight.

So, the 'we' that operated behind closed doors wants to 'come out'. Bravo!

Such a pity that you fail to mention that Labour is a political party - with members. Ah! The inconveniencies of accountability, party and parliamentary democracy, not to mention governance.

And that thumping great debt. Who was it that was Election Campaign coordinator in 2004/05? Is that why renewal cannot be about going back? Could the 'we' that were out on the streets in 1997 discover some uncomfortable truths about the 'we' that then shut us out of policy debate for 10 years?

Perhaps, that's where we need to focus first. Let's learn from the history of the last 10 years. Let's use the Leader/Deputy campaign to learn from our mistakes. Then 'we' - the members might be able to look forward with renewed confidence to being able to debate honestly with the public, and win back their confidence under a new Leader.

http://www.the2020vision.org.uk/index.php/pages/have-your-say/the-2020-vision/P25/


Re: Policy Debate (#23)

by MM on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:05:36 PM GMT

It was published.


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Re: Policy Debate (#26)

by Glass House on Thu Mar 01, 2007 at 10:44:26 AM GMT

lol


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Re: Policy Debate (#28)

by grimupnorth on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 12:09:25 PM GMT

I couldn't even get access, Peter! But I suspect their server was flooded with howls of protest......


[ Parent ]

Policy Debate | 28 comments (28 topical)