NHS in crisis

The NHS is clearly in crisis.  I was at the labour nhs supporters network, where the two ministers got a tremendous headache from the debate.  They clearly weren't expecting the tirade, with only one out of the forty in the room saying that there was no problems in the NHS at present.

To credit the ministers they did respond and tried debate but they claerly hadn't expected what they got.  They tried giving terms of reference, but we rejected this.  They are doing them all over the country so watch out.

Display: Sort:

Re: NHS in crisis (#1)

What do you feel is the nature of the crisis?

Re: NHS in crisis (#2)

I wouldn't say the NHS is in crisis, I think it is important that we don't overreact to tabloid headlines on the subject.

Some trusts have run up deficits, but as a proportion of their budget these deficits are small. Closures have had to happen in places, but in the end there is a limit to the resources available and NHS Managers have to determine how best to allocate  those resources to maximise services. Closures are an unfortunate but inevitable result.

Overall the NHS is in a good state.

Re: NHS in crisis (#3)

Absolutely.

I believe I am right in saying that the debts affect only an extreme minority of locations and ammounts to only around 1% of the actualy NHS budget.

Progress has been made, more still to do, but no where near as bad as some would portray.

Why people feel the need to bash the parties achievements and thus give ground to the opposition is beyong me.

Re: NHS in crisis (#4)

The debt issue and the hospital closures are two completely seperate issues.

The Tories are trying to make out that the closures are due to the debts - something that is totally false.

The debt is a minor issue around PCTs that have overspent and, as has been pointed out, is of a tiny amount.

The closures are to do with reorganisation.

There's a Times article about this somewhere...I'll try to root it out.

Re: NHS in crisis (#6)

Here it is:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/alice_miles/article653385.ece

I don't agree with all of it but it's interesting

Re: NHS in crisis (#5)

I have had far too much experience of the NHS having been an in patient 10 times in the last two years.

My observations are;

Brilliant in emergencies and dealing with a heavy duty illnes quickly and efficiently.

Too many people are in patients for too long because the consultants don't do Ward rounds often enough.

There are too many nurses. Morale is low because there is no leadership to ensure best use of staff time on the Wards.

Cleaning is abysmal on certain Wards. ie. sloppy and un supervised.

Consultants pay has sucked up too much of the budget without the requisite productivity, one told me this himself and explained how he earns XXXX more for doing less, plus private work.

This is based on observations in Castle Hill Hospital, Hull. Hull Royal Infirmary and University College Hospital London.

http://dermotrathbone.spaces.live.com/

Plese feel free to ask me more specific questions....

Re: NHS in crisis (#7)

Of course the NHS isn't in crisis. It's just going through some reform pains.

Remember the NHS in the 1980's? Then it was in crisis.

Today, when the NHS is getting more funding than ever, there are many more doctors and nurses employed than in 1997 and there are new NHS buildings and redevelopments springing up all the time - these are good times for the NHS, not bad.

Re: NHS in crisis (#8)

The word `crisis' is used all to easily by the press. It has got to a point where it is hard to imagine any newspaper writing about the NHS without the word `crisis' attached. It is a huge exaggeration of the NHS I recognise.

The NHS has a lot of problems. There is a huge amount of reorganisation and better management required to enable higher productivity and, more importantly, better quality of care. But let us not forget that the NHS was on it's knees in 1997. I remember when it was not uncommon for patients to wait 2 years for a hip replacement. Yes, 2 years! Now no one waits more than 6 months and the vast majority considerably less. It isn't good enough yet. But let's not let people forget how bad it was under the Tories.

The NHS has still got a lot of work to do. A shopping list should include:

*    We still have to ensure that Trusts live within their means. Financial discipline in the NHS should be a Labour legacy.
*    We need to use private capital and expertise to increase capacity and provide enough services - but ensure that we are not being used by private companies and that we are getting value for money.
*    We need to continue reducing waiting times for procedures but the focus also needs to be on quality of care.
*    We need to ensure that there are no further fees for prescriptions, eye care, opticians, dentistry etc. The health inequalities that have persisted over the past 10 years will not be helped by charging for services. The poorest feel these charges the most.
*    The Choice agenda within the NHS needs to be changed to ensure that all, not just the middle classes, benefit from choice.
*    The NHS needs to be designed as a caring service. This is not a factory churning out new hips, hernia and cataract operations. Every patient with an ailment, no matter how trivial feels scared when they walk through the doors of a hospital. Hospitals must be a place where care can be given speedily and effectively, but most importantly with the compassion and dignity that people deserve.
*    More resources are needed on public health and preventative measures. It's better to prevent ill health than treat it once it has occurred. The NHS should aim to be a health service once again - not a `sickness' service.

I agree with most of what Dermot says. I recognise the issues he has pointed out. I've worked in the three hospitals that he mentions. However, I've never felt there were too many nurses.

Glass House, here's an article I wrote on the merits of reconfiguration a couple of months ago. I think reconfiguration of trauma and highly specialist services is necessary to improve quality of care. However, I disagree with reconfiguring most maternity services.

http://progress.squareeye.com/Magazine/article.asp?a=1493

Re: NHS in crisis (#9)

I agree with the sentiment of most people here. As a patient, I received fantastic care in the NHS. I only had to wait 2 weeks for an elective operation at my local hosp. I was out within 2 days and back to work within a week.

Ignore the tabloids. We need to win the country's trust back.

Re: NHS in crisis (#10)

I do feel the NHS is agreat institution that we created, but there is clearly problems and ministers seem to be unaware.  At the Labour Party Supporters network there was great concern expressed and these wher grassroots activits, a number of who where employed in the NHS.

the NHS is in crisis (#11)

and closures are due to trusts being forced to balence deficits.

My local trust admited this was the reason behind closing a local hospital. Instead of trying to spin this, we should be asking why there are problems when so much money has been spent.

Hewitt became a liability when she appeared on TV being booed & jeered by nurses. She looked stupid telling nurses that the NHS was having its best year when they had very different experiences.

Media-wise, theres no point having some stuck up woman insulting nurses because people respect nurses.  Its an own goal.

Brown should appoint a new set of health ministers-ones who come across as less arrogant. Its important not to send out mixed messages. Its better to be honest and admit that theres a crisis rather than trying to downplay the problems.

Re: the NHS is in crisis (#12)

no they're not.

If your local trust is telling people that, then, i suspect, it's just trying to cover it's arse on account of it's own inability to manage a budget.

oh please (#15)

they've got a massive historical deficit that they were told they'd have to clear within the year.

Why is this site dominated by people whining on about a need for a debate about Labours future when they stiffle any discussion about Labours present?

In case it had escaped your notice over 20,000 jobs have been lost in the NHS. I appreciate they are mainly low paid working class women so the political class in the westminster village probably couldnt care less. Some more traditional party members do care! Theres absolutely no doubt that deficits are the real reason for wards closing and job losses. Pretending otherwise simply makes Labour PMPs (and cronies) look arrogant and uncaring. Suppose, just for a minute, the closures and redundancies were down to poor local management. Why the hell doesnt Labour fire the managers responsible? Its a sad day when a Labour government says "nothing to do with us" when trusts sack 1000s of staff.

Patricia Hewit shafted the Rover workers and she is doing the same thing to the nurses.

Seeing nurses made redundant and physiotherapy graduates without jobs turns people against Labour. I actually go out onto peoples doorsteps canvassing for Labour. Some of the clever little media advisors might think its a real hoot telling people that an IT system is going to replace nurses and physiotherapists but try explaining that to a woman whose 24 year old daughters just been fired from her nursing job!

When I canvassed ahead of the local government elections last year, the NHS and ALMOs were the top issues on the doorsteps. Until the upper echelons of the party listen to feedback from those of us who canvass on the frontline, we'll go on suffering defeats.

The complete denial that the NHS is in crisis is destroying our partys credibility. Its already destroyed the leaderships credibility with the party grassroots.

Re: the NHS is in crisis (#13)

There are many issues that need sorting out in the NHS.
Bitchiness and Bullying on the wards is leading to low morale.
We need more equality in nursing, it is far do female dominated.
Nurse pay is disgustingly low at £20,000 pa, a GP can earn £120,000pa.
That's 6 times the amount and is unfair.
Yes, they train for longer (double the amount of time, so double the pay would be fair.
Because nurses are so poorly paid the good ones move on and get out. All you're left with is those either who can't earn more or who lack any ambition. Excellent nursing is frowned upon and if you're liked by your patients then some colleagues marginalise you!
The whole culture is to put people down and not to encourage and inspire. This is after 5 and a half years exp as a nurse. I've had other job offers and not taken them because I am dedicated to my patients, but when you can be shouted at for giving a dying patient 7 mins of your time, the time has come to review what you're doing!
Cancer wards need EXTRA staff!! We cannot give good care when at times there are 2 trained nurses to 30 patients.
There must be change but it will probably be too late for me. I just hope I can improve the lives of those caring for people with cancer.
 

Re: the NHS is in crisis (#14)

See my blog
http://www.nicolemurphy2007.blogspot.com/
A insight into life as a nurse in cancer care.

This sounds disgusting (#16)

I've got friends who are nurses and they paint a similar picture. Why was so much NHS money wasted instead of being spent on patients? OK thats a silly question because its just going to get the interns out with their bogus statistics!