One third of households rely on the State ...

Mark Wadsworth Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 10:31:11 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

... for more than half their income. Where did Civitas get this figure from?



Out of 47.4 million voting age adults, about 11 million are pensioners, 7 million work directly or indirectly for the State, there are 5 million "key benefit" claimants and a million students entitled to some sort of grants or subsidies. So that's HALF of all voting age adults who rely ENTIRELY on the State.

Or have I missed something?


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One third of households rely on the State ... | 17 comments (17 topical)

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#1)

by Glass House on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 11:44:16 PM GMT

I agree that it's a shocking figure but just to put it in context.

11m pensioners are only relying on the state in so far as they've paid into a state run pension scheme. They'd still be reliant on such a scheme whether it's run by the state or not.

7m working in the public sector - that's not too bad. Im sure there are people doing non-jobs and who are doing half a job but taking twice as long but dont have the time to trawl through 7m job descriptions to find out who they are.

5m key benefit claimants - many will be in need of this, but not all. A report by the right-wing think tank 'Reform' (of all things) really opened my eyes to the need for welfare reform and I'm glad the govt. are pushing this. No doubt I'll get a whipping for mentioning it but it's worth reading all the way through. You may disagree with the recommendations (I do) but there's a lot of stuff to challenge assumptions in there.

1m students - wouldn't have it any other way. And they pay most of it back.


Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#7)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 11:30:49 AM GMT

Of course I read the Reform thing, but I am afraid this is just the authoritarian "welfare to work" type stuff, I prefer libertarian citizen's income type schemes.


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#10)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 12:03:13 PM GMT

Mark - will you send me your paper on citizen's income. It was in my old email account's inbox (which seems to have been deleted through lack of use)


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#11)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 12:03:31 PM GMT

the new address is glassandstones@gmail.com


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Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#12)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 12:54:22 PM GMT

I have emailed it.

Anybody else interested?


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#14)

by CitizenAndreas on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 01:45:02 PM GMT

Yep
citizenandreas [at] slick47.co.uk


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#16)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 02:03:42 PM GMT

Had a quick flick through.

I get the feeling there's a glaring error that I can't quite put my finger on.

And it just seems so statist. I know that, according to the figures, it's revenue neutral and therefore, in financial terms, not more statist than the current system - it just feels that way.

More later.


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#17)

by Juvenal on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:21:26 AM GMT

Me too: breadandcircuses[at]hotmail.co.uk

Cheers


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#2)

by Charlotte Mackenzie on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 12:06:18 AM GMT

Have you missed anything? Pensioners with earned occupation-related income. The tax contribution paid by people employed in public services. The social contributions of people in work and receiving tax credits. The lifetime employment contribution of access and grant-funded students. Who was it who said some people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing?


Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#5)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 08:22:20 AM GMT

Absolutely right on every count.


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#9)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 11:42:18 AM GMT

You could also add that all taxpayers get some State benefits - NHS, free state education for kids, police, public libraries and so on.

I am not taking any moral stand, I am saying it is a fairly meaningless figure.

The real issue is a welfare system that will encourage unemployed to find jobs. A Citizen's Income scheme would fit the bill nicely.


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#3)

by donpaskini on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 01:32:32 AM GMT

When discussing welfare reform, can we bear in mind that rather than listening to stupid right-wing think tanks, what would really make a difference would be making sure people are genuinely better off in work (including after housing and childcare costs), and that no welfare to work programme is sustainable unless employers pay their workers enough money to live on.

As for the concern that there are more pensioners or people working in the public sector, or students, I don't understand the problem.


Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#6)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 08:24:01 AM GMT

All good points except for the one about 'stupid' right-wing think tanks.

I think it's the wrong attitude to stick our fingers in our ears. We should be listening to all sources of information - it's the only way we'll see the whole picture.


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#4)

by MM on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 02:29:42 AM GMT

A welfare measure that could benefit us all
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/peter_riddell/article1368898.ece

The Times, Peter Riddell gives some analysis to the forthcoming review by David Freud on how to get people off benefit and into work.


Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#8)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 11:38:05 AM GMT

Re Peter Riddell, sorry no, anybody who waffles on about "greater conditionality" is an authoritarian who doesn't understand the mechanics of what we actually have.

The reasons why single mums don't work is...

a) they face a overall marginal deduction of over 70% on wages up to £20,000 a year - in other words, if unemployed single mum gets a job paying £400 a week, she is only £120 a week better off. Cash in hand jobs and apathy beckon.
Under the Citizen's Income/flat tax scheme I am working on, the overall deduction rate would only be 33% (the flat tax rate) (or 53% if you are in social housing or claiming Housing/Council tax benefit). There would be NO means-tested withdrawal of the Citizen's Income, set for argument's sake at current Income Support/Jobseeker's Allowance rates.

b) subsidies for nursery funding are very complicated and patchy and some only kick in when a child turns 3 years old. Far better to scrap Sure Start, WTC childcare element and employer nursery vouchers and increase Early Years Funding to £80 or £90 for all children from the day they are born. This might "cost" a billion or two more, who cares?


[ Parent ]

Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#13)

by simonhod on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 01:38:04 PM GMT

Another startling statistic is that one third of families rely on state benefits for half of their income!


Re: One third of households rely on the State ... (#15)

by Glass House on Tue Feb 13, 2007 at 02:01:56 PM GMT

isn't that the same statistic?


[ Parent ]

One third of households rely on the State ... | 17 comments (17 topical)