Polls disaster

luke warm Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 03:10:48 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Recent polls have been a disaster for our party



I have been a Labour voter all my life, but I must say I am becoming increasingly concerned by the state of our Government.

The gaffes and blunders seem to happen on a daily basis and I am horrified to see the steady decline in the opinion polls.

I think our leaders should wake up and start taking note of the doubts of the people instead of riding roughshod over them and blatantly ignoring their fears.

I think if Gordon Brown had the guts to admit the open door, unlimited immigration policy is a total disaster for our country and that every public service is facing terminal meltdown , and then actually do something about it - that would go a long way to appeasing disenchanted Labour supporters.

Then if he had the guts to say his law and order policies were a monumental failure and build some more prisons instead of releasing hardened criminals onto our streets, that would be an election winner.

As it stands, if things go on as they are, we will be soundly kicked up the khyber at the next election.

Please GB - think of GB and save us from the Tories.

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Polls disaster | 17 comments (17 topical)

Re: Polls disaster (#1)

by TonyH on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 04:07:07 PM GMT

I'm feeling a little seasick from the ups and downs of these poll stories.

We're down due the war in Iraq, up as the Tories go into an election on immigration, down on cash for honours, we're up as the Tories are leaderless, down as Cameron rides a wave of optimism, up as Brown arrives with the "Government of all the talents", down on the election debacle and Cameron's no notes speech.

Let's relax and make the conversation about competence - not 557 people knee-jerking about press stories and statistically manipulated and nationally weighted in marginal seats.

That's not to say these are not real issues. There are concerns but let's summarise as follows: The Government was right to bail out Northern Rock - we'll get our money back following a successful Virgin bid and not have a massive mortgage lender failing to cope with.

The HMRC loss is a fiasco - but look at how the Chancellor handled it at every step. He did everything right - top to bottom search, immediate inquiry, Police called on the second day, review of procedures and statement to Parliament. The person responsible resigned. We should not have to endure this nonsense about ID cards now - so perhaps it's better in the long-run.

On the donation - the money will be given back. Nobody stole it - nobody was given favour - an eccentric wanted to donate via someone else - a lapse on the part of the party - not Government and the person responsible has resigned. The Tories were recently in a case claiming millions left to them in a will by a mad man who believed in aliens or some such - nobody's impeccable in the grubby world of party fundraising. Time for public financing for all parties. The "sleaze" word is, in this case, hyperbole.

I'm not an apologist but I would say - let's put this in perspective. If we lose heart, we lose elections. And we know what that will bring...


Re: Polls disaster (#3)

by JoeRoberts on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 05:49:59 PM GMT

Tony Hannon's post above is one of the best I've read on here. The fact that the media work themselves up into a frenzy of speculation, indignation and hysteria, doesn't mean we have to do the same.

We need to keep a sense of proportion and perspective and get on with the job in hand. It will be a long and winding road to the next election. There will be obstacles in our path, and troubles along the way, but that doesn't mean we won't make it to our destination.

The polls have been up, down and all over the place in the last few months. We've seen a very bad poll today, but it is from a company with little track record whose past few opinion polls have shown a consistently bigger Tory share than any of the more established and credible polling agencies.

Hang in there and let's not do the Tories' job for them.


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Re: Polls disaster (#5)

by bigpapi on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 10:41:11 PM GMT

I agree - an excellent post by Tony, with the exception that I'm not as confident on getting the Northern Rock money back, as I don't believe the Branson bid will be successful; already RAB Capital, the second-largest shareholder in NR have said they will opppose the proposal.

However, we have plenty of time before the next General Election, and when the LibDems have a new leader, and start taking votes back off the Tories, you will see the re-emergence of the anti-Camerons in their Party, and it will be back to the position we were in two or three months ago.


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Re: Polls disaster (#12)

by Group51 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 07:24:37 PM GMT

"If we lose heart, we lose elections."

 If we loose sight and feeling for the public mood, we certainly deserve to lose.

The problem isn't the fiascos, although they are mighty damaging.  The problem is that there is nothing positive to look forward to.  

Seriously, what are the positive policies coming forward?  ID card and terror legisation is not positive.  Trident and Nuclear Power is not positive.  Forcing welfare-to-work and even more tax breaks for ungrateful business and the rich is not positive.


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Re: Polls disaster (#17)

by TonyH on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 06:11:04 AM GMT

I accept what you're saying but being fixated with polls as if they were an end in themselves is not governing.

My point is, I doubt anyone become involved in politics to become part of a collective effort to support polling figures. The ups and downs, when viewed in context, are basically magnified hysteria drawn out over several months.

There certainly are difficult issues for the country and party but I'm suggesting that people recognise it for what it is - not a "crisis" - crisis is foot and mouth or terrorist attacks. To call these times a crisis is hyperbole and demeans priorty.

The priority for keeping sight and feeling for the "public mood" is to govern well. How many people respect a Prime Minister who reacts to polls? How does it square with leadership?

As I said - I'm not an apologist and I agree that the ID cards and terror legislation are very, very poor proposals but I understand the difference between a Labour government and a Conservative one. When it come to how to mnage a country since 1997 - the track record contains plenty to be positive about. ID cards et al aside - hopefully there'll be more.


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Re: Polls disaster (#2)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 04:47:20 PM GMT

It's desperately frustrating at the moment because we know when we look at the most important factors like the economy (in terms of economic growth, inflation, interest rates and unemployment), the NHS and education there have been truly colossal improvements over the past 10 years.


Yet we're heading towards Opposition because of these blunders which combined make us look unable to control events.


There is no great enthusiasm for a Tory government so soon after they wrecked the country last time, but people will be more willing to give them a chance if we keep making mistakes.


But nevertheless, I think we will get through this and will start to lead the polls again - but only if Brown gets a grip on events and demostrates competence, and if he then sets out a truly bold vision that rivals the Tories rather than copies from them.


Re: Polls disaster (#4)

by wgm on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 10:31:28 PM GMT

Luke warm - have you been reading the Mail? Open door, unlimited immigration policy? No, that's simply an exaggeration. Build more prisons? We've been doing that. Releasing hardened criminals onto the streets?? Every public service in terminal meltdown?? Completely over the top tabloid nonsense.

The Tories - and the hostile media - are digging and trying to sustain a narrative of incompetence and sleaze. Both have a job to do and we shouldn't make it easier for them. And when I say "we", I mean the Government, the Party and us members. 



Polls disaster (#6)

by luke warm on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 12:38:20 AM GMT

No - I don’t read the Mail - those are my opinions, many of them formed by seeing the effects of unlimited immigration and the disaster of multiculturism, in my home town of Bradford.

None of the points I made are “Completely over the top tabloid nonsense” they are points which are of serious concern to myself and almost everyone I speak to.

I apologise for saying this wgm, but the fact that people like yourself and our leaders are in denial and operate a head-in-the-sand policy is why we are plummeting down the polls at the moment.


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Re: Polls disaster (#7)

by grimupnorth on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 12:07:55 PM GMT

Luke warm you sound like a racist. I find your views utterly distasteful and reactionary.If this is your answer to Labour's ills, I'm not impressed.The BNP would  probably agree with you


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Re: Polls disaster (#8)

by JM on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 02:24:53 PM GMT

*puts head in lions mouth*

what exactly has luke said that is racist?


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Re: Polls disaster (#9)

by jkitleft on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 02:32:46 PM GMT

I think luke was perhaps a bit OTT, but a reaction in a PC society, is for the mob to cry "racist" due to post-colonial guilt. I'm not for multicultralism, as it can expose some pretty abhorrent views. I don't think we're releasing hardened criminals on to the street, I think Labour have made too many offenses, and thus our prisons are bursting at the seams. Immigration is a very difficult topic, which needs much debate, but i lean to both sides occasionally.


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Re: Polls disaster (#11)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 05:16:15 PM GMT

Can we please not throw accusations of racism around for no good reason. You might disagree with him, but nothing Luke has said is racist.


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Re: Polls disaster (#13)

by Group51 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 07:43:32 PM GMT

No, sorry, both fear of immigration and fear of crime are rather negative.  People turning to Cameron are doing so because they belive (wrongly, perhaps) that he will make them more 'free'.  

They are finding a positive narrative.  It might be wrong, but it's not negative.  Is anyone going to vote for ID cards and nuclear power?

They might vote for REALLY doing something for the environment, or finally sorting out schools, or better transport, or better childcare.  Where are these policies?


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Re: Polls disaster (#14)

by bigpapi on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 08:32:12 PM GMT

I'm sorry to disagree, but having entered over 420 responses to a constituency-wide Listening Panel survey we've carried out, people's main concerns are immigration and crime.

There is overwhelming support for ID cards, even  amongst Party members, as there is for extending the 28 day detention limit.

We as activists may not like what we here, but if we ignore it, we do consign ourselves to Opposition.  As was the mantra of the 80's, it's no use having the best policies if you're not in a position to implement them.


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Re: Polls disaster (#15)

by Group51 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 10:15:15 PM GMT

This may be true, but if that becomes our platform, well, do you think we'll ever out flank the Tories?  Especially given that all this grievance has happened under Labour?

Fear of immigration is a symptom, training, jobs and better services is the cure.


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Re: Polls disaster (#10)

by yozza on Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 04:13:33 PM GMT

"Tony Hannon's post above is one of the best I've read on here. The fact that the media work themselves up into a frenzy of speculation, indignation and hysteria, doesn't mean we have to do the same."

Err true but we are Labour supporters.The general public are not quite as understanding that media spin is just that-spin. I thought the whole disks hysteria was ludicrous, but I did hear a couple of people in my local bank cancelling their credit cards because of the media hysteria.It DOES have an effect.

Labour's answer to the media onslaught has been to rush out stuff on booting disabled claimants off Incapcity benefits and forcing single mothers into work.Wow, that makes me full of enthusiasm to post my usual round of 1005 leaflets.It's up to the leadership to inspire us, give us some direction, give us a cause, give OUR voters some fire...


Re: Polls disaster (#16)

by SunilPrasannan on Thu Nov 29, 2007 at 11:36:09 AM GMT

Sadly it's not our Party, it's New Labour :(


Polls disaster | 17 comments (17 topical)