Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold to £700,000 for couples

EDIT: Having read more into this proposal, it's become apparent that this isn't actually copying the Tories - but it's something quite different. See my comment 3 for details.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7034399.stm
  • The threshold for the combined allowances for married couples and those in civil partnerships will be £600,000, rising to £700,000 in 2010.
  • The threshold for each individual remains at £300,000 (going up to £350,000 in 2010). Individuals will not be allowed to combine their allowance with someone else unless they are married or in a civil partnership.


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Re: Darling raises IHT threshold to £700,000 (#1)

It's not a doubling, but making the exemption transferable between partners. So it actually costs little, as previously someone doing IHT tax planning could achieve similar by the first partner who dies leaving their 50% to the children rather than partner.

The Tory £1 million proposal would have given £2 million total exemption to a couple, if they did IHT planning.

Re: Inheritance tax (#2)

No, it's not to be expected from a Labour government. It's an outrageously cowardly approach, and voters will see it as pure opportunism. I've blogged about this here

Re: Inheritance tax (#4)

This is pathetic. Making up policies on the hoof and reacting to the latest opinion polls is no way to run a Government!

Re: Darling (#3)

Actually, having read more about this proposal, I've realised it's not a true increase in the threshold at all.

It simply allowing two people within a marriage or civil partnership to join their two £300,000 tax free allowances together to give them a combined IHT allowance of £600,000.

This is perfectly fair as couples can do this already providing they do sufficient tax planning, but most married / civil partnership couples don't do this because they don't have enough knowledge of the financial system.

So I take back my criticism of Darling before - this isn't a true increase in the personal IHT threshold, nor is it encouraging marriage through the tax system anymore than the current situation. It's simply allowing couples who don't have great knowledge of how to work the financial system to recieve the same benefits as those who do.

Re: Darling (#5)

I have to be blunt and say that Darling's performance was pretty depressing.  First of all the PBR and CSR are major statements and really should have been seperate statements on differents days.

I noticed after 10 years and one major conference speech by a Shadow Chancellor, plus some panic in Number 10 the Chancellor announced he would consult on introducing early legislation on non-domiclied taxpayers.  (The proposals are similar to the Tories but propose a charge is introduced after seven years, then a higher rate after 10 years).

We've also embraced the Lib Dem/Tory policy of a duty per plane intead of per passenger.  Yet I've seen Labour Minister after Labour Minister go onto BBC current affair's program's to slag or Lib Dem/Tory green tax plans.

Maybe all of this cross dressing will play well in polls.  But one would have hoped we'd have something more postive to say on a big set piece occassion like today instead of being so defensive.

The normally loyal Brownite journlist Larry Elliott of the Guardian sums it up:

'The dampest of squibs':
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/larry_elliott/2007/10/you_had_to_feel_a.html

Also funny that when Stephen Byers wrote an article last year in the Sunday Times advocating Labour should reform/abolish inheritance tax, messers Balls/Darling had a fit.  Funny old world.

Re: Darling (#9)

I wouldn't exactly call Larry Elliott a brownite, he was never particularly compimentary of our prime minister's record as Chancellor. More Keynsian than brownite.

His recent book, "Fantasy Island" is not exactly complimentary of the the last 10 years of government.

Re: Darling (#13)

By 'Brownite' I just meant that he was close to Brown advisors etc.

Re: Darling (#6)

I think this is quite clever. A considerable proportion of the people benefitting could be described as better-off workers. The new regime is as-of-right and cuts out a whole field of tax-dodge lawyering and accountancy.

People in Civil Partnerships have this part of their tax affairs treated the same as married couples. The main beneficiaries are exactly those home-owners in the more expensive parts of the country, and not the super-rich.

As they experience this and think it through, people will like it better that the crude Tory scheme which did benefit the super-rich most.

Not so much clothes stolen as a gimmick trumped.

Re: Darling (#7)

I think this is quite clever. A considerable proportion of the people benefitting could be described as better-off workers. The new regime is as-of-right and cuts out a whole field of tax-dodge lawyering and accountancy.

People in Civil Partnerships have this part of their tax affairs treated the same as married couples. The main beneficiaries are exactly those home-owners in the more expensive parts of the country, and not the super-rich.

As they experience this and think it through, people will like it better that the crude Tory scheme which did benefit the super-rich most.

Not so much clothes stolen as a gimmick trumped.

Re: Darling (#8)

Given the greater complexities of this policy than the Tory one, and the other annoucements made with it, I dont think it was made on the hoof. Thanks Northern Monkey for delving a bit further.

I think in fact the Conservatives rushed their's out last week being scared of a GE. We know because it was full of factual errors it was not thought through.  T

Last week we saw the Tory's for what they really are - in it for the rich. They stand for tax cuts - not services. The 'GREEN' agenda was no longer centre state but the 'GREED' agenda.

Re: Darling (#17)

Interesting. I thought he had increased the threshold which I am not in favour of, and it favoured married couples which I am in favour of. Has his Statement something for everyone? In which case Darling may get away with it.

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#10)

I don't think it was a good move. It's essentially a £1billion tax cut (I'm assuming the figure in the Larry Elliot article is correct). And of course, a £1billion tax cuts means £1 billion that needs to be found somewhere else.

The thing is, I think with time, and a fair amount of determination I think the arguments in favour of inheritance tax could have been won. It looks like we're following the Tories lead, and that's not something I think the Labour party should be keen on.

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#11)

A £1bn tax cut doesn't necessarily always mean that another £1bn somewhere in the budget will disappear - it's likely that an increase in the net amount of tax revenue will offset/justify this tax break.

(I'm opening a can of worms here, aren't I?)

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#12)

Ms Flanders on Newsnight said it meant that the Government would be increasing borrowing even more than it currently is to pay for the Inheritance Tax wheeze.  Somehow by 2011 everything is supposed to be magically back in surplus, thou the Treasury has been saying that for the last 5 years.

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#14)

We need to remember the IHT change is not a straight-forward tax cut, as previously a similar effect could be achieved with careful tax planning ("zero-rate Discretionary Trusts" and their ilk). The change is really making available to all the IHT regime that good tax/legal advice could give someone - and in that sense it is egalitarian.

Darling's scheme is much better than the Tory proposal which would have left the tax-planning wheezes in place so a couple could get two lots of the £1 million IHT exemption they proposed. I think the scheme is clever in defusing the IHT issue while removing the wheezes, so is much less expensive than the Tory proposal.

The costs of applying this to all couples are still quite large though, growing from £1 billion/year in 2008-09 to £1.4 billion/year by 2010-11. (See  Table 1.2 of the report "Transferable inheritance tax allowances for married couples and civil partners").

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#15)

I've had a further think. I now believe there are people whose income is below the Pension Credit level who will benefit from this. In this area there are houses worth over £300,000 that are unfit for human habitation. Most could be repaired and made very comforatble homes for less than £10,000, but the resident owners think that is too much to borrow. 

Re: Darling raises Inheritance Tax threshold ... (#18)

Labour has been following the Tories since Blair took office, nothing knew then.

Re: Darling (#16)

Do you think any of these proposals were part of that radical 'first hundred days' thing everyone was talking about before Brown was elected?

Considering how long he had to think about it, there seems to be quite a bit of improvisation going on at the moment.

Stephen Byers 2006: abolish IHT (#19)

Rather shocked to discover that last year Stephen Byers proposed Labour completely abolish IHT! (In a Telegraph article of course.)

Byers was much dissed on Labourhome at the time, rightly so. But perhaps the Tories shouldn't be claiming Labour is copying a Tory policy on this!! Byers advice for the new PM was:

We know that Tony Blair will stand down at some stage before the next election. The danger for Labour in electoral terms has always been that when he departs from Downing Street, voters will feel that the pragmatic and modernising approach of New Labour has gone with him.

The challenge for his successor is to demonstrate that this is not the case and to show that the party is in touch with the British people. There needs to be a recognition that things move on and that new issues will emerge that will need to be addressed.

One of these has to be the impact of inheritance tax with soaring house prices affecting whole swathes of the country and bringing potentially millions of people within its net. Its abolition would show that New Labour is prepared to look again at the tax system to ensure that it is grounded in fairness and reflect the modern world in which we live.

Re: Stephen Byers 2006: abolish IHT (#20)

As a general principle their is nothing wrong with a review of IHT, preferbaly one properly thought out and based on the joint core principles of fairness and redistribution. Personally I would raise the level IHT kicks in to £1m, with annual reviews to take account of house price inflation and then level it at base income rate from that point. I would also work on the assumption that politically we lose as much as we win so we can be bold rather than blatently pragmatic.

Re: Stephen Byers 2006: abolish IHT (#22)

As I have said... I strongly believe that the Tories rushed this one out at their Conference... its not a unique or original idea for any of the parties. The fact their figures dont add up is indicative they rushed it through.

Their Conference would have been all 'hug a tree / huggy/ Dave' were they not scared of a GE.

'Dave's' vitriol laden performance at PMQs was a disgrace made not out of concern for the country, but from a cold realisation that he will never be PM.

Re: Stephen Byers 2006: abolish IHT (#23)

"their figures dont add up"

 

Have you checked this personally or - and I am going to phrase this as tactfully as I can - are you just taking the word of a team of people whose commitment to truth and honesty is not entirely undisputed?

Re: Stephen Byers 2006: abolish IHT (#24)

I did not do the maths myself, but I was following the analysis in the news closely... for example.

This is from Osbourne's speech:

"The next Conservative Government will raise the Inheritance Tax threshold to £1 million.

That means, we will take the family home out of inheritance tax.

In a Conservative Britain, nine million families will benefit.

In a Conservative Britain, only millionaires will pay death duties.

In a Conservative Britain, you will not be punished for working hard and saving hard....
 

For millions of people, today sounds the death knell for death taxes."


This is from Newsnight

The cost
In costing the IHT the Conservatives have used the treasury figure where only 6% of households pay it, yet in selling it they have said 37% of homeowners gain from this policy, or as the Conservatives put it 9million families. The 37% figure comes from a Scottish Widows survey, where homeowners are asked to value their own house. Even if these figures are accurate, it is 37% of homeowners not households so this would actually mean approx. 6.4 million people.

My comments - thats 6.4 million people, not 9 million families.


This is from Channel 4 :

The Tories are using their annual conference to cast themselves as the party of tax cuts - and the party that will benefit hard-working, ordinary families.

The shadow chancellor claimed to offer fully costed plans to make things easier for first-time buyers and families liable to pay inheritance tax. Soaring house prices since Labour came to power have had implications for the value for assets liable for death duties, and meant that more people are liable to pay stamp duty when buying a house.

The Conservatives reckon that raising the stamp duty threshold to £250,000 for first time buyers will benefit 200,000 people a year (adding up to one million over the course of a five-year parliament), at a cost of £400m. And raising the inheritance tax threshold - currently £300,000 - to £1m would cost £3.1bn a year.

To pay for these cuts, the party wants to bring in a flat-rate levy of £25,000 on non-domiciled residents - people who live in Britain but aren't classed as British residents, meaning they aren't liable for UK tax.

Do the promises add up?

First, let's look at the main money-making plan - the tax on non-domiciled residents. The Conservatives reckon that, at a cautious estimate, 150,000 residents would pay the levy, raising £3.5bn.

Cautious or not, clouds of uncertainty billow around this part of the equation. As Carl Emmerson, a deputy director of the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies points out, not only do we not know how many non-domiciles there are, it's also hard to say how many of them would choose to stay in the country if the Tories had their levy-levying way.

"They may all pay and there may turn out to be more here than they assume," said Emmerson. "Or they may prefer to go and pay tax on their foreign income."

Now let's look at the Conservatives' costed cuts. Raising the stamp duty threshold looks likely, over five years, to benefit the million people that the Tories claim.

But the maths behind those cashing in on the inheritance tax changes is far more sketchy. The Tories claim that Labour's inheritance tax net ensnares nearly 40 per cent of homes. This figure is based on the number of people who are currently estimated to be liable for the tax, rather than the number that are currently paying it - and it's a pretty big disparity.

In 2006, 18 per cent of properties in England were valued at more than the contemporary inheritance-tax threshold (£285,000). But in the same year only 6 per cent of estates were liable to inheritance tax, suggesting it's a tax hitting the richest section of the population, rather than the wide sting the Tories are trying to suggest.

Why such a difference? It could be that there are lots of people in their fifties and sixties who have a lot of wealth because of the value of their homes. However, this doesn't mean that they would necessarily have that much when they die - they may give it away, or spend it on long-term care, for example.

In their costed calculations, however, the Conservatives have used the current inheritance tax take - the £3.1bn paid by 6 per cent of households.

The verdict
The Tories are using two different slices of the cake when it comes to inheritance tax. They claim their changes would benefit far more people than currently pay the tax, but when working out how to fund the tax change, they look at the smaller figure of the actual money raised.

If it were the case that more than a third of families paid the tax under Labour, the amount of money they would have to find to fund the change would be far, far bigger.

And the biggest potential hole in the Tories' plans is the assumption that the money to pay for their cuts would be covered by the new levy on non-domiciled residents - for which authoritative figures just aren't available.




IHT £700,000 for couples (#21)

Practically speaking, imposing the death tax on a 3 bedroom terraced house in London did look a bit silly.
Seeing how people on this forum have branded people who live in these houses rich, it is good to see the upper echelons of the party having some sense for a change. Prices have crept up on 3 bedroom homeowners, making them very much unaware that they could avoid the death tax for their kids, unlike those better off. This move will go someway to correct this anomaly.