Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal

wgm Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 11:38:31 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Welcome news for LGBT Labour and CLPs like Brighton Kemptown who have been campaigning for incitement to hatred on the grounds of sexuality a crime.





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Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal | 15 comments (15 topical)

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#1)

by NorthernMonkey on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 01:38:20 PM GMT

Great news indeed. Well done to all those who campaigned hard for this.

However, this legislation must include transgender people too, so Jack Straw, if you're reading this (!) then make sure it doesn't leave out transgender people.


Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#2)

by JM on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 09:23:59 AM GMT

Isn't there an arguement that people should be allowed to say what they want?

Obviously it should be illegal to incite violence against gay people, but isn't that already covered by other incitement to violence laws?


Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#3)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 07:00:20 PM GMT

Well if incitement to hate on the basis of race and religion are both crimes, then incitement to hate on the basis of sexuality should be a crime too.


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#4)

by JM on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 07:44:40 PM GMT

Again, isn't their an arguement that neither of those two should be an offense either? (especially the religion one)

 


[ Parent ]

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#5)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 08:42:08 PM GMT

Well if you believe that no minorities should be given protection by this then fair enough.

I personally would say that minorities should be protected from others inciting hatred against them. This isn't about banning criticism of minorities nor banning insults against minorities - it is about stopping people going out and encouraging violence against other people just because they are gay, or just because they are black, or just because they are Jewish etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with making this a crime.


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#6)

by laurencemarshall on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 09:32:40 PM GMT

I agree in regards to consistency we should have a law against inciting gay hatred, considering we have them for other minorities.

However in regards to violence, there are laws already on the statute books to prevent this. ie Incitement to violence.


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#7)

by JM on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 10:23:53 PM GMT

Exactly. Anyone inciting violence towards homosexuals, people of a particular religion, or people of a particular race should be arrested and punished.

However, an individual who wants to promote stupid ideas about the immorality of homosexuality, a particular religion or a particular race (much as I would actively oppose and abbhore such a person) should not be crimalised so long as they arent inciting violence.

Or am I wrong? 


[ Parent ]

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#8)

by NorthernMonkey on Wed Oct 10, 2007 at 11:56:40 PM GMT

No, that's right.

But the law proposed doesn't stop people criticising gays or indeed insulting them (although obviously we as a party would abhor such behaviour). It stops people inciting violence specifically on the grounds of sexuality.

A couple of years ago, Nick Griffin made the most appaulingly racist speech in public and police examined it (as it was caught on camera) to see if he could be prosecuted for inciting hatred against Muslims.

However, even with the law in place, the police still did not prosecute him (and rightly so it must be said) because of free speech and they decided the language wasn't strong enough to merit prosecution. So the law is very tight here and we're not going to see people locked up for criticising or insulting gay people - it has to specifically be inciting violence against people because of their sexuality.


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#10)

by JM on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 10:49:29 AM GMT

Then why isn't this an 'Incitement to violence against homosexuals' law, rather than an 'Incitement to hatred against homosexuals'?


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#12)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 04:36:39 PM GMT

I suppose the logic is that it's stopping groups from whipping up hatred of people based on their sexuality. But in the reality of the situation, it's main purpose is to stop people encouraging violence against gay people.


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#13)

by JM on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 04:52:29 PM GMT

It just doesn't sit right with me. What degree of "inciting hatred" should be criminalised to virtually impossible to legislate for.

Will a particularly abhorrent church minister who stands up and declares that homosexuality is an abomination against god be criminalised?


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Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#14)

by NorthernMonkey on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:56:12 PM GMT

No, of course not!

I think I've exhausted all of the information I can give you - you might be better looking on a website which gives the full information on this subject. I would have thought the Home Office covers this as its an equality issue, or possibly the Ministry of Justice.


[ Parent ]

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#15)

by JM on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 09:25:52 AM GMT

You may say "of course not", but you don't know. I'm sure the ministers who draft the bill don't want it to, but once the bill is passed, it'll be up to police, the CPS and judges to decide how they interpret "incitement to hatred"

Remember Anne Robinson being investigated for making a joke about Welsh people on TV? I'm sure the minister who drafted that particular bill wasn't intending to criminalise that sort of behaviour either. Law of unintented consequences as all that.


[ Parent ]

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#9)

by Parishpumpspin on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:52:41 AM GMT

If nothing else this proposal will keep the next Director of Public Affairs at Stonewall busy, getting the balance right.

Hopefully we are all adult enough to agree promtion of violence should be covered by law and that if their is an additional element where inciting against sexuality carries a premium in terms of sentencing we can all live with that. With regard to the rest of the discussion my core Labour principles have some real difficulty with the idea that a religion should be protected from criticism (harsh or otherwise). Unlike gender or race a religion is a choice consiously made, therefore if someone decides to believe in something sexist, homophobic or even with morally confused then I have a clear right to point that out and do so in as legal an "aggressive" manner as I choose (not withstanding present tendencies to clumslerly and simplisticily equate some religions with communities).

On a more controversial note (remembering another thread) I equate "chavism" as a choice also and as such the same principles apply.


[ Parent ]

Re: Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal (#11)

by JM on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 10:51:16 AM GMT

Agree completely. Religion is simply a set of personal beliefs, no different from political beliefs.

How is a religous hatred law any different from a political-belief hatred law... Everyone on this board would have been banged up by now :) 


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Govt to make incitement to gay hatred illegal | 15 comments (15 topical)