Tony Benn to stand again!

Lorin Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 06:17:27 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

According to this report the former cabinet minister and veteran leftie Tony Benn will stand as a candidate again.






He is standing in Kensington, Malcolm Rifkind's seat, he doesn't stand much of a chance. But if he does win, and Emily Benn wins we could have 3 generations of Benns in the HoC.



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Tony Benn to stand again! | 40 comments (40 topical)

Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#1)

by NorthernMonkey on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 07:02:47 PM GMT

Since he's such a high-profile candidate I would have thought he'd have a decent chance of defeating Rifkind.

Don't agree with all of his views but I still hope they select him.


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#2)

by doctordunc on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 08:46:40 AM GMT

Absolutely. Kensington used to be a safe Tory seat, but it's less so with the boundary changes.  Add the fact that Tony has an enormous popular personal vote, I'd say if people want Labour to win that seat then they should select Tony.


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#5)

by rwendland on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 03:18:49 PM GMT

Doing a ward level analysis suggests a 2005-equvalent Con majority would be about 5,100, so it's not impossible, but extremely tough. Here's the Electoral Calculus projection from the latest national opinion polls:

Kensington
Region: North London
MP Sir Malcolm Rifkind  (CON)
Electorate      61,681  Turnout 51.30%  Top
        2005 Votes      2005 Share      Prediction
CON     14,134  44.67%          43.89%
LAB        9,032   28.54%          32.61%
LIB         6,180   19.53%          13.92%
OTH        2,297   7.26%           9.58%
CON Majority    5,102   16.12%    Pred Maj      11.29%


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#3)

by bobbysilby on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 11:54:54 AM GMT

Does he not have to win a selection first?


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#4)

by doctordunc on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 02:51:39 PM GMT

Of course.  I don't think anybody suggested he didn't.  However, I think he would be an excellent choice.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#6)

by swatantra on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 04:11:48 PM GMT

I think he'll be out of place in the modern Labour Party. Maybe there's a place for him in the Lords where his brand of Bloomsbury type of Socialism can still be appreciated.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#10)

by SimonHH on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:38:24 PM GMT

Tony made it clear some years ago, in something of an historic fashion, that he didn't want a seat in the Lords!

 Yesterday's 'modern Labour Party' is today's dinosaur. Nothing looks more old-fashioned to me right now than the Islington type of 'Socialism'. Benn still has the capacity to inspire people and capture hearts and minds. Something, I think, which will probably never be said about Peter Mandelson.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#12)

by repub on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:16:13 AM GMT

Simon I dont intend to single you out but I see this phrase too much and want to ask a question.

What do you mean when you say Islington Socialism? and how does this type of socialism link to Islington as an active Labour area??

Bearing in mind that both MPs and CLPs in Islington are probably more left wine than yours is...


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#14)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 12:29:41 PM GMT

It is every much a bit of a cliche as is 'Bloomsbury Socialism' I agree.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#7)

by louis on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 05:49:36 PM GMT

Tony Benn has been out of touch with what most party members think since that silly 8 million votes for socialism soundbite after the 1983 election disaster, but he is a deeply loyal party member with genuine star quality. I'd be tempted if I were in Kensington.


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#8)

by Wilberforce on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 07:00:21 PM GMT

Much as I admire Tony Benn I think he has had his day and should give others the chance to have theirs. I can't help thinking it could have something to do with the diaries he has published? Its put him back in the news again.

Again, I want to stress how I admire him and more recently his work on the anti-war movement. I just dont think we need him back in the House.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#11)

by SimonHH on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 09:39:52 PM GMT

On the contrary; what better way for the Labour Party to state in actions, as well as words, that it stands against ageism than to not assume that anyone over eighty has 'had their day'?


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#9)

by Lorin on Sat Oct 06, 2007 at 08:37:48 PM GMT

I hope he will be selected, and now that the figures of the last GE were published it seems we have a chance, what with the boundry changes. I don't think anyone but Benn will win us the election in Kensington.
PS: If Benn wins this means Cameron will be his constituent!!


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#13)

by laurencemarshall on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 11:58:05 AM GMT

I don't like the man's politics, and his cosying up to dictators, but a Labour MP is always better than a Tory MP.


Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#15)

by red flagger on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 01:48:56 PM GMT

Cosying up to dictators?


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#16)

by doctordunc on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:12:58 PM GMT

Yes, I had decided not to rise to it, but it is a pretty shameful piece of unsubstantiated slander really, isn't it?  And ridiculous: one of the most furious and committed democrats these islands have produced being accused of 'cosying up to dictators'!


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#17)

by swatantra on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:27:43 PM GMT

And, whats worse, he's a Eurosceptic. K+C seems to attract the 'comeback kids'. We've had Clarke, Portillo, Rifkind and now possibly Benn Snr. The constituents are probably wondering when they are going to get an ordinary MP from their own midst and not one using the seat as a public pulpit.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#18)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:40:47 PM GMT

No he is not a 'Eurosceptic'. Like many Labour MPs he has concerns about the democratic accountability of the EU and opposes monetary union on the Maastricht terms. If you can't understand the difference between this and Kilroy-Silkism, then I despair. In any case, he lives in the constituency. How much more 'from their own midst' do you want?


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#19)

by doctordunc on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:50:12 PM GMT

Simon has said what I wanted to say.  So I'd best leave it there.  Suffice to say that Benn's connection to Kensington CLP are long-standing ones (e.g. he was their conference delegate in 1983!!!)  He's the local candidate.

Dismissing people who ask questions about Europe as Eurosceptics is very far from helpful.  Bear in mind that Benn was an evangelist for European Union until he witnessed the democratic deficit at first hand as President of the European Council of energy ministers where he was shocked by his own lack of accountability.  He is absolutely right to ask the questions that he does (and a hell of a lot of other Labour members do).


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#20)

by swatantra on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:12:25 PM GMT

I'll give way on the 'local member' bit as he lives in the constituency. But I stand fast on the Eurosceptic bit. What Benn wants is 'out', not just 'renegotiation' and that is totally unacceptable; he led the protest against the European Union and I believe has spoken on the same platform as Tory Euro sceptics, and that is unforgiveable. The Bennites divided the Party in '83 and created the way for a few more terms of Thatcher. And he would seek to divide the Party again if selected.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#21)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:23:47 PM GMT

Allow me to translate: (a.) 'Totally unacceptable': I don't agree with it. (b.) 'Divided the Party': Belonged to the opposite wing of the Party to me during a period of division. Personally, I think that the Labour Party has always been a broad church. It rightly contains a diversity of opinion. I'm something of a Bennite, but I would cheerfully use all my energies getting any Labour candidate elected. Some of us need to remember which Party we're in methinks.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#25)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 05:02:51 PM GMT

And that's another important thing about Benn: far from being the unmoving dinosaur the media portray him as, he is a man whose politics have evolved through experience.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#26)

by swatantra on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 06:02:21 PM GMT

For someone who claims to spurn the cult of personality in politics he seems to have very much used it to his advantage. No, I'm afraid its the same old Benn from the 60's, 70's, 80's and early 90's. Very little change.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#28)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 06:46:54 PM GMT

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this one. If you think his political views haven't changed since the 60s, I refer you to his diaries. If you think he encourages a personality cult, I disagree. I hope, however, that we can agree to support whichever Labour candidate is selected to take on the Tories in Kensington.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#32)

by swatantra on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 07:19:44 PM GMT

Yes!


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#22)

by laurencemarshall on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:29:15 PM GMT

http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/benn-again.html

http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2007/10/more-from-benn.html

He visited Saddam, and I gather he was well liked by the man.

Completely substantiated, and from his own diaries too. 


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#27)

by repub on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 06:35:33 PM GMT

Are we not a current ally of the Saudi Arabian dictatorship?

Seems very easy to throw mud when it helps you lead a smear...meeting someone is clearly not the same as supporting someone. Don't pretend otherwise.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#31)

by laurencemarshall on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 07:13:10 PM GMT

I said cosey up to, not supporting them. Don't take my words out of context. 

Saddam holds honours such as the attempting genocide on the Kurds, almost wiping out the Marsh Arabs, harbouring the terrorist that planned the first twin tower attack, making war on his neighbour and using chemical weapons in the process, being the first leader to lead his country in the takeover of a fellow member of the United Nations and of course killing 3,000,000 of his own people over the period of his rule. 

Saudi Arabia's leaders looks like a pussycat compared to him.  

As usual the fallacy of 'Tu Quoque' is employed and all the moral relativism that it entails.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#33)

by repub on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 08:39:47 AM GMT

OK can you clarify what "cosey [sic] up to" means? It is not a political term I am au fait with.

Your indignation is very well done. A*


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#37)

by laurencemarshall on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 11:44:52 PM GMT

From the COED:

verb (cosies, cosying, cosied) informal make (someone) feel cosy. Ø(cosy up to) snuggle up to or ingratiate oneself with.


Happy? Buy a dictionary!


PS. It's the latter definition I've used, just in case I haven't spelt it out simply enough for you.


[ Parent ]

Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#34)

by doctordunc on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 05:08:03 PM GMT

I have to say that Oliver Kamm's comments are - as usual - pretty repugnant.  This ludicrously arrogant self-styled intellectual pontificating about the contents of Tony Benn's diaries is faintly nauseating.  It 'completely substantiated' in the diaries that Tony went to interview Saddam in the lead up to the war, as part of an effort to avert the war, that is absolutely correct.  He checked his questions and general approach with representatives of the Iraqi Communist Party in London (i,e. Iraqi dissidents) and with Jack Straw who supplied other questions which Benn passed on to Tariq Aziz.  He also, in his diaries, expresses a great deal of discomfort at Saddam's apparent friendliness and is very clear about his strength of feeling about the regime.  So Kamm, as so often, puts forward things that are 'completely substantiated' but also completely selective.  He also uses the fact that Benn felt that Nick Cohen was pretty right-wing masquerading as left wing as a point against Benn: why?  It's a basic but fairly obviously accurate point!


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#35)

by swatantra on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 06:29:30 PM GMT

As if Benn, Galloway and Heath could ever have made an impression on the likes of Saddam.... a futile effort.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#36)

by doctordunc on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 08:53:10 PM GMT

It makes me proud, as a Labour Party member, that fellow members (notably Tony, but others as well, such as Alice Mahon) did everything they could to try and stop war and mass slaughter.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#38)

by laurencemarshall on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 11:49:28 PM GMT

Pity they didn't seem to mention that Saddam was a brutal dictator that killed nearly 3 million people over the course of his reign. Oh well, because it's all about western imperialism isn't it?


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#40)

by doctordunc on Tue Oct 09, 2007 at 08:30:00 PM GMT

Actually they did "mention" it.  Have a look through Hansard and see which MPs condemned Saddam over Halabjah, etc. and I don't think you'll find many of those who were so enthusiastic about the war.  Talk about bandwagons.

But yes, western imperialism is pretty important.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#39)

by laurencemarshall on Mon Oct 08, 2007 at 11:58:20 PM GMT

Sadly you're going off the point. I said that Tony Benn cosied up to dictators, which he did. Kamm's sources clearly show that he did, regardless of the methods employed.

I do think that Kamm is pugnacious and can be irritating at times, but his analysis is usually thorough and he goes out of his way to use evidence and sources fairly.

Using the word 'intellectual' as part of term of abuse, considering i've read in previous posts that you have a PhD or are studying for one, seems to me, to be an indication of some kind of jealously about Kamms intellectual capacity.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#23)

by Sensible Comrade on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:42:02 PM GMT

Did he ever ask his famous questions to Saddam when he met him? (Who elected you? In whose name do you exercise authority? How do we get rid of you? etc etc)

Methinks not.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#24)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:44:19 PM GMT

Since he was trying to stop a war at the time (as was Edward Heath, who also met Saddam), he may have felt it was an inopportune moment. Now, same question to Donald Rusmfeld. I wonder if him and the despot talked much about the 'Freedom Agenda'.


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#29)

by Sensible Comrade on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 06:48:45 PM GMT

Er, yes, but as a leftie I feel we should hold Benn to a slightly different standard. For all his highly-inspiring talk of the beauty of democracy, Benn hasn't always been 100% in tune with those fine principles.


But hey, that's fine. We all have faults. Surely only someone who has been suckered into some sort of bizzare cult-of-the-Benn's-charming-personality would try to put the case that Benn is perfection personified!

And just to let you know, I would probably support his candidacy for Kensington - mainly because as a 'celeb' he would surely have a better chance at winning. 


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Re: Tony Benn to stand again! (#30)

by SimonHH on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 06:56:37 PM GMT

I wouldn't defend Benn on every foreign policy question. He was, for example, somewhat naive about the former USSR. But then, so were many people (from all parts of the Party). In balance, though, he's definitely on the side of the (democratic) angels. Unlike, for example, that wretch Galloway.


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Tony Benn to stand again! | 40 comments (40 topical)