Servants of the people

Have had a busy evening. Had to miss the Sports & Social Club Karaoke to speak at the City of London Fabian Society and then go to White City to be on Question Time Extra - QT's "after show" covering the audience responses.

The Fabian Society event was interesting. I was chatting about the opportunities for the internet in modern politics. My main proposition is that the opportunities lie in narrowing the gaps between people and power.

An example of this is the No10 petitions site. I was on BBC and Sky defending the innovation at the time when a minister is said to have called the instigator a "prat" - and I recall asking a journalist, "how many times would the anti-road charging lobby have to send you press releases before you would cover their issue on Sky primetime?"

The fact is that no number would have secured that group such coverage - but by securing a million supporters, they proved that the No10 petitions site had narrowed the gap between people and the media. The system now provides people with a new opportunity to get the media's attention and once you have that, you are better able to influence government.

Culture Secretary James Purnell also spoke at the event and he gave me the very strong impression that he supports that narrowing of the gap between people and power - and the use of new media as one of the ways to achieve it.

In fact, it was staying to hear James that made me miss out on the karaoke.

Once at the BBC, I was parked in a small room with the other guest - Conservative Future Vice Chair Claire Palmer - so that we could watch Question Time and prepare for the home audience reactions, to which we were to respond.

Once on camera, presenter Chris Eakin raised the issues of Iran sanctions, immigration, Tony Blair as prospective EU president and the smacking of children. Maybe something else too - I may have forgotten.

In a sense, and maybe because of my start to the evening, they all seemed to be the same issue to me. The issue being that people aren't valued enough.

On the possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons, the position of Britain and the US seems to be that we can be trusted with such weapons but other countries cannot. Even if for a moment we accept this is true just for the sake of argument, the reasoning doesn't hold up when because we have no way of telling whether the next British government or the one after that can be trusted - and surely the hazard is so great that it's not worth even a small risk?

For us to predict that all future British governments will be safe owners of nuclear weapons is to tell the Iranian people that British people are better than they are. If you were Iranian, how would that make you feel?

I would prefer a more honest approach to foreign policy. I would prefer it if we just told the Iranians that we will use any might at the disposal of us and our allies to prevent them gaining a nuclear capability because we don't think it's in our interest. Then it wouldn't make us look so stupid considering the US has ripped up the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty and as Russia hurriedly re-arms. At least then we would be operating on a might-is-right basis rather than trying to convince people at home and abroad that some people are simply better than others on the basis of their nationality.

The immigration issue managed to wind me up a bit - again because it is couched in the terms of people being of little value. On QT, Spectator editor Fraser Nelson referred to poor estates where people live on benefits because immigrants come and do the poorly paid jobs - a position that the Tory Claire Palmer repeated and which infuriated me no end. The Tory position seems to be that working class people should go and work in factories or call centres or bring in crops rather than living on benefits because that way we won't need immigrants to fill the gap.

In short, they're saying that working class kids should know their place and aspire to working class jobs. This is at the heart of why I believe that Toryism is founded on an evil ideology - that some people are by birth of greater value than others. It's this belief that allows them to expect every middle class child to go to university with few exceptions and to allow only the exceptional working class children to have that opportunity. When Tories attack Labour for aspiring to get 50% of young people into university, they're not talking about their own children - they want 100% of their own children getting degrees and professional jobs.

I might have diverged from immigration on camera as far as i have done here.

On the prospect of Tony Blair becoming President of Europe, I expressed some disappointment that the European Treaty isn't democratising the European institutions. European people won't choose a President, it will be done by intergovernmental horsetrading and there will be no public accountability. I happen to think that Joschka Fischer might be a good candidate for President of Europe if we have to have one.

I'm kind of running out of steam now - it is nearly 4am - but I have in the course of writing this ramble about my evening, come to a clearer idea of the vision I want the Labour Party to present for the future of Britain.

I want a Britain where all policy making is based on the idea that all people, despite our differences, are of equal value. I want an education system that seeks out the talents and abilities of all our children, particularly if they have social disadvantages. I want an economics that counts people as assets rather than liabilities. I want a foreign policy that is predicated on respect for other nations' populations if we can't respect their leaders. I want a government whose interest in the quality of life of its citizens is greater than its interest in mobile phone companies' profits.

In short, politics should be built on a respect for people and sometimes it seems like the political class despises people. It is profoundly unedifying to read about the Tories offering to forego the Ashcroft money advantage in return for ending Labour's union money advantage and all with the proviso that political parties should get greater state funding.

Where is the consideration of the voter in this discussion? All discussions of electoral reform seem to be couched in terms of what's good for parties rather than what is fairest for voters - and we have just been criticised for mismanaging the Scottish elections after the voters took last place in our priorities.

I don't accept the Tory attack that Douglas Alexander somehow manipulated the election (if he did, we didn't win so it didn't work) - but the political class is guilty. We have somehow divorced politics from reality so much that the public has been convinced that politicians are corrupt and that political parties are not to be trusted.

For how much longer can this go on?


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Re: Servants of the people (#1)

"For us to predict that all future British governments will be safe owners of nuclear weapons is to tell the Iranian people that British people are better than they are. If you were Iranian, how would that make you feel?"

If Iranians or any other nationality think they're better than the British, that doesn't make me feel anything. I'm sure most Brits wouldn't care. Why assume Iranians would get upset by something that wouldn't bother us at all?

Re: Servants of the people (#2)

But would it bother you if the Iranians were impeding our free will on the basis - for example from choosing what energy sources we used?

Re: Servants of the people (#3)

Thought you were really rather good on QT extra. Well done. With any luck they might even ask you onto the main programme like they did with Chuka

http://parburypolitica.wordpress.com/

Re: Servants of the people (#4)

"On the possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons, the position of Britain and the US seems to be that we can be trusted with such weapons but other countries cannot."

The position of Britain and the US (and not just them as it happens) is clearly not that vague. The problem is not with "other countries" - which, after all, could include any number of stable liberal democracies such as Denmark or Canada - but with brutal, antagonistic theocratic states that express a desire to wipe other states off the map.

 

"I would prefer it if we just told the Iranians that we will use any might at the disposal of us and our allies to prevent them gaining a nuclear capability because we don't think it's in our interest."

Surely by refusing to take any option off the table, notwithstanding the diplomatic niceties, what you describe above is exactly our position? 

Re: Servants of the people (#5)

'The Tory position seems to be that working class people should go and work in factories or call centres or bring in crops'

I think the Tory position is actually that everyone, where able, should work for a living to support themselves, not to rely on others to pay for them. How is that unreasonable?

Re: Servants of the people (#6)

“The Tory position seems to be that working class people should go and work in factories or call centres or bring in crops rather than living on benefits because that way we won't need immigrants to fill the gap.”

There is evidence to suggest that people in employment – even employment that doesn’t meet your aspirations – are happier and healthier than those that rely on benefits.

“In short, they're saying that working class kids should know their place and aspire to working class jobs.”

I don’t think that’s what he said. Everyone can aspire to any job, but there is no reason that this should preclude someone from taking a job that doesn’t meet all their aspirations as a first step, perhaps while undertaking training or night classes. There is is plenty of evidence that people with an existing job are far more employable than those that have spent a lengthy period on benefits.

“This is at the heart of why I believe that Toryism is founded on an evil ideology - that some people are by birth of greater value than others.”

According to your own analysis, it is fine for immigrants to do the jobs that are apparently beneath the indigenous population. Such a position would seem to me to be asserting that some people are by birth of greater value than others.

“It's this belief that allows them to expect every middle class child to go to university with few exceptions and to allow only the exceptional working class children to have that opportunity. When Tories attack Labour for aspiring to get 50% of young people into university, they're not talking about their own children.”

The 50% target is self-evidently ludicrous. It is a number plucked from the air, unsupported by any analysis or evidence. It is a number that has not been matched with funding and has therefore damaged our university system, which was previously the envy of the world.

Re: Servants of the people (#7)

I'm not saying that working class people shouldn't work in factories etc - I'm saying we should not reward the entrenched privilege of the middle and upper classes.

Your hypocrisy is that you would find it unthinkable that middle class - or god forbid upper class - kids should start their careers in factories, farms or call centres because it might make them more "employable".

The 50% university target is not self-evidently ludicrous, though i will concede that it is arbitrary. But again you avoid the issue of entrenched privilege. middle and upper class parents expect nearly 100% of their children to go to university.

I'm not suggesting the target should be 50% or 100% overall, but in order to overcome increasing inequality, working class youngsters should have at the very least and equal chance of getting into university as middle and upper class kids.

uyou tell me Boycott what percentage is implied by that.

Re: Servants of the people (#8)

So, in the absence of other options, do you agree “that working class people should go and work in factories or call centres or bring in crops rather than living on benefits”?

If you concede that 50% is arbitrary, then I think you should logically concede it is ludicrous. Why should the disbursement of taxpayers’ funds and – more importantly – the course of young peoples’ lives be determined by an arbitrary figure, unsupported by any evidence or analysis whatsoever. That is surely ludicrous. After 10 years and a great deal of spending, one would have hoped that the government might have funded some research to ascertain what percentage makes sense. I wouldn’t impose a target without such research.

 “Hypocrisy” is a strong term to be thrown around, especially when it is unsupported by the facts. I would be perfectly happy for all young people to spend time working in a factory or at another unskilled role, as I did. It does wonders for motivation.

You haven’t addressed the inconsistency in your own position with respect to working class Britons and immigrants, nor explained why unemployment is a better means of meeting the aspirations of the working class than actually working.

Re: Servants of the people (#9)

But there you go with "in the absence of other options".

It is the absence of other options to solve the problems of social immobility and discrimination that are causing this problem.

The problem is not that unemployment is a "means of meeting the aspirations" of the working class. The problem is that the class system continues to pervade british society.

Re: Servants of the people (#10)

"In the absence of other options" was designed to limit the debate to the two alternatives you identified in your post. Clearly, we ALL want Britons to be able to undertake fulfilling, well-paid roles. It is a pity that after ten years there are apparently still too few such roles. I was therefore interested in whether you believed unemployment was better than working in a lowly-paid job. There is lots of evidence to suggest it isn’t, but you appear unwilling to address the question.

I fail to see how importing a class of workers to undertake the jobs that Britons don't wish to do is a means of addressing the British class system.

Re: Servants of the people (#11)

Hi Alex, I wonder if you remember me? Nice to see you on TV, is that the second or third time this year? (and I missed you on Sky last night too!) Anyway, good to see you developing your political career. Sorry if this is kind of OT, but have yet to get a page on Facebook set up, but working on it! OK, confession time, although I do see myself as "Natural" Labour, I haven't been able to vote for the party since the London Locals in 1998. I have voted for the LibDems since the 2001 General, a bit pointless given that Ilford North was always either Lab/Con, but also in Cambridge City during my time there in 2004-2007, where the LibDems became largest party on the council and gained the parliamentary seat in 2005. Now, I'm back in London, still in Ilford North, though the Tories are in charge (commiserations to Linda Perham). However I am in two minds whether or not to vote Tory (which I must stress I have never done) or go back to the Party. Oh, those heady days of 1997! I still remember staying up into the wee hours of May 2nd and greeting in the "New Dawn for a New Britain"! Anyway good to see a fellow class-mate of mine on TV so often (just so I can point out "I went to school with Alex"! LOL!). We must go for a drink sometime (even though I don't - something soft maybe!). Cheers, Sunil.