The Jon Cruddas Facebook Interview
Jon kindly agreed to answer some questions put forward to him by members of this group. Here is what he had to say. Please feel free to comment on Jon's ideas and also to spread the word about this interview. Perhaps other deputy leadership candidates will soon start feeling obliged to interact with their facebook supporters!
That's why I suggest some alternative ways of improving our organisation, and I see strong democratic processes within the party going hand in hand with a strong campaigning culture and presence in local communities.
Specifically on party conference, I would like to move away from the style of internal management that leads to people feeling that they have no say in their own party. That doesn't mean we have to stick with the status quo - I think we should open up the annual conference, more closely integrating the formal and fringe aspects, with an increased role for outside voices and organisations and a modernising of the contemporary resolutions process to allow for more discussion in the run-up.
That is a programme of modernisation that would deepen democracy within the party while also keeping us rooted in the real world. But it's not meant to be set down in tablets of stone - I want to start the debate, not settle it. I hope you'll all be discussing these things in the months ahead and I look forward to seeing the ideas that come out of it.
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2) Following on from that, should we be worried that renewing grassroots activism and increasing membership input could lead to the re-emergence of entryist groups similar to the Militant Tendency? How would you mitigate the chances of this occurring?
- I think the biggest problem we face now is not being infiltrated by a latter-day Militant Tendency but no-one joining at all!
The biggest invitation to entryists would not be a party where democracy has been rejuvenated, but a party whose active membership has become so atrophied that a small, organised faction is able to enter and manipulate internal processes for their own ends.
I actually think that if power is widely dispersed that prevents entryism rather than inviting it.
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3) Why did you vote in favour of the Iraq War? Do you regret that decision now?
- We were asked to vote for the Iraq war on the basis of WMDs and to bring democracy to a country used to dictatorship. Clearly the premise on WMDs was wrong, as we haven't found any, and at the moment there is a bloody conflict rather than a stable democracy. I have to say that knowing what I know now, I do deeply regret voting the way I did. It is really important that politicians of all stripes are open and honest, and I have to hold my hands up and say I got this one wrong. We need to recognise when we have made mistakes so we can learn the lessons for future, and there are plenty of lessons to learn from Iraq.
I think there is a consensus that we need to hand over security functions to the Iraqis, so that we can start to withdraw our troops as soon as possible and help the Iraqi people by other means.
I was interested in what King Abdullah of Jordan said recently - he made the point that the issue needs internationalising - but given our history, I don't think Britain's armed forces can be part of a long-term solution. We have to debate an exit strategy, but we also need to consider how we can support progressive forces in Iraqi society through aid and ensuring that the Iraqi people - not American corporations - control their own economy. If ordinary Iraqi people had economic security, that would do a lot to create the conditions for military security.
There is also another side to it, and that is the process by which decisions are made. We will get better policies when the maximum amount of debate is had. We get bad policy when a small number of people arrive at an idea and then push it through by any means they can, rather than heeding other voices and considering whether their premise was actually wrong. We can't go back and not fight the war, but we can embed changes that would ensure future policy decisions are taken in the right way.
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4) What would you say are the top three achievements of this Labour government and what have been the worst three mistakes?
- The biggest achievements would include the employment legislation we passed in the first term - especially the minimum wage, but also on paid holidays, working time, statutory recognition and so on; the general fiscal boost we've given to the public services as a whole; and more recently, the introduction of local community police teams.
Some of the things I wish we'd done differently include the system of funding for higher education - I've always opposed a market system of differential top-up fees; not investing enough to build more social housing; and not making a more positive case on migration.
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5) You have been dismissed as many things, including "a Compass stooge", "a trade union stooge", "the Left's candidate", and even as an "ambitious ultra-Blairite"! What is your response to such pigeon-holing? Do you think the Deputy Leadership contest can be conducted in a comradely manner?
- I want to run a different kind of campaign in this election and I think that's been something that some people on both the right and left of the party don't know quite how to deal with.
I don't think it's helpful to go around labelling people but more importantly I want this election to be an opportunity for a real debate about the party's future, including our aims and values and how we put them in to practice. I'm not really interested in a contest between personalities or Westminster musical chairs, but I also think that's the best way to make the campaign not just comradely but a really positive experience for the party as a whole.
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6) You have interesting ideas about increasing Labour's appeal to young people. Could you tell us more about how you would like to see this achieved, including your suggestion of reconstituting Young Labour?
- Politicians often complain that young people are apathetic but in the main they are just as political as ever before. It's just that they prefer to join Amnesty or Friends of the Earth or War on Want rather than the Labour Party. The problem is that these organisations all have progressive values, but it is the Labour Party, by governing the country, that can put those progressive values into action. There are some things I think we need to introduce - funding for youth organisations in local communities, for example - but I want to hear from young people themselves before coming out with too many ideas. More generally, I think that the answer isn't just in changing organisational structures or campaign techniques, but in making people feel that our party shares their values, and that if they join they will be valued as members and have a real say.
As for Young Labour, this debate must be led by young members themselves, but I have been following it with interest. Again it's not just about changing structures, but having committees and executives elected by as broad a range of young members as possible seems like the obvious way to go.
There's a view in some quarters that if we become a more democratic party, then some mystical band of Trots will take over. As I said above, I do feel this is a bit like generals fighting the last war. The problem we face isn't a bunch of Trots taking over Young Labour - it's the diminishing number of people joining Young Labour at all. Times have changed, we must change with them, and that goes for Young Labour as much as the rest of the party.
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7) In terms of economic and social welfare policy, what do you want to see the government doing to improve the position of the poorest and most vulnerable in the UK today?
- That's a pretty big question, but one thing is that we need a crusade for more low-cost social housing units, including council housing, to deal with what is a crisis in many areas of housing need - that's something that is vital for the poorest and most vulnerable people, but the lack of affordable housing in many of our cities is actually something that effects a huge swathe of society. There's a real opportunity here to build a consensus around a progressive, pragmatic policy that fulfils our historic mission as a party of social justice but also allows us to sustain a coalition that keeps us in power.
But that's only one element. We also need urgent measures to choke off the race to the bottom in the labour market, particularly including the abuse of migrant labour by bad employers. That needs to go alongside a whole package of measures to help the working poor and renew our onslaught on child poverty.
It also needs to go hand in hand with a debate about the position of irregular migrant workers in our society, many of whom are the most vulnerable and poorest people I come across in my work as an MP. To help them, we also need to look at the resources available to local authorities who are dealing huge migration inflows that are simply not picked up by the census data on which funding streams are based. That can leave local frontline services under-funded and there is a danger that the far right exploit that by presenting it through the prism of race, when the real solution lies in developing systems of resource allocation to deal with modern conditions.
On a related note, one other thing I would mention is that we need a more aggressive attack on health inequalities, both in terms of public health but also ensuring access to basic services.
I could go on, but those are a few issues I would particularly like to raise. This area really is essential to our mission as a labour movement, and I want other people to bring their experiences and ideas in to the debate as well. Too often they are off the radar in the media and the debates we have at Westminster.
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8) Perhaps related to the last question: what is your understanding of the terms `class' and `equality'? Can a Labour government move Britain towards becoming a classless society? Do you think of yourself as a socialist?
- I do think of myself as a democratic socialist. When we talk about class or hear claims about a classless society, I prefer to look at the empirical facts. In my judgement the question of class is as relevant today as it ever has been, though that does not mean that society hasn't changed over time. We are developing a two-speed, or hourglass, economy, where there is actually a large and growing low-skill, low-wage segment of the labour market. Many of these are in the services sector - receptionists, secretaries, hairdressers - but there are also over ten million manual workers. Politicians sometimes talk of classless societies or the withering away of the working class, but it simply doesn't match up to these empirical facts. Another side to this is gender - about half of all working women are on low wages, often part-time or on agency contracts. We won't make any serious progress in achieving greater equality without addressing those conditions.
Understanding the changes that are happening in society and our economy is a vital precondition for knowing how we best make them more equal, and as a socialist I do believe that is our historic mission.
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9) Who is your political hero? (Brief explanation please.)
- Our movement has such a great history with so many people, the overwhelming majority of them ordinary people who never made it in to a history book, that I wouldn't pick out any one individual as my political hero.
But, off the top of my head, I can name a few people who've inspired me in different ways. I worked for John Smith during his time as leader and I'm sure he would have made a great Labour Prime Minister but for his untimely death.
Looking outside the British labour movement, Oscar Romero, who was assassinated for his stand on social justice and democracy in El Salvador, was a great man. And intellectually I have a great deal of admiration for Edward Thompson as well.
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10) You were brought up near Portsmouth. Are you a fan of the great Pompey FC? And as a dedicated campaigner against the BNP, are you a fan of the even greater Billy Bragg? Would you promise to try to bring Billy Bragg back into the Labour Party if you become Deputy Leader?
- I grew up in Fratton End, and certainly am a fan of Portsmouth. But I'm often watching the Daggers at three o'clock on a Saturday afternoon these days. All in all it's looking like a pretty good season on both fronts at the moment!
I'm a good mate of Billy's and I'm in a rolling conversation with him at the moment, which I certainly hope ends up with him coming back to the Labour Party. In fact, it would be great if he rejoined before the deputy leadership election rather than after!


