Backtracking on gay rights?

Juvenal Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 12:40:14 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

Apparently, Tony Blair has "not yet decided" on whether to give an opt-out on the proposed law to ban discrimination against lesbians and gay men.  Let me offer some help.



There is a fundamental principle behind anti-discrimination legislation - it's supposed to stop people discriminating.  To offer an opt-out is to give certain people the right to discriminate.  That simply cannot be right under any circumstances.  Either gay men and lesbians are discriminated against, in which case laws may be required, or they are not.  This cannot be treated in a `pick and mix' manner.

Let's be absolutely clear - for any government to legally permit a single group within society to continue to practice discrimination is unconscionable.

That the discrimination and prejudice in this case is based on religious belief (Catholicism) should not really matter one way or another.  However, the government appears to be being bullied by into creating a hierarchy of oppression - force us to accept homosexuality, and you discriminate against our beliefs, says Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor.  Well, if a hierarchy is required, I would always favour the rights of those discriminated against because of who they are (gender, orientation, ethnicity, disability) above those who happen to believe something.

http://bread-and-circuses.net


tags: , , , (all tags)

Display: Sort:
Backtracking on gay rights? | 17 comments (17 topical)

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#1)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 01:28:55 PM GMT

I broadly agree.

However it is interesting to note that you specifically single out Catholicism, which (we are agreed) is on the whole homophobic (various paedophile priest scandals notwithstanding;  query Ruth Kelly's involvement in all this) BUT fail to mention Islam, which in many countries makes homosexuality punishable by death - radical Islamists in this country advocate the same.

Other "faith" leaders appear to be mercifully silent on the topic.


Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#2)

by Juvenal on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 01:33:32 PM GMT

Agreed - I was simply responding to current headlines, but the wider principle holds.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#13)

by Mark Wadsworth on Wed Jan 24, 2007 at 12:18:52 PM GMT

I hereby withdraw that last comment - see post #14 below.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#3)

by JR on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 07:17:17 PM GMT

Whole heartedly agree with you Juvenal. It will be disgraceful if Blair sides with the bigots. And Ruth Kelly isn't fit to be Equality Minister.


Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#9)

by Mark Wadsworth on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:50:07 PM GMT

Blair is not siding with bigots, for all his faults he is not a bigot, never has been.

His big problem is, he's just doing what Mrs Blair tells him.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#15)

by Loz on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 12:15:28 AM GMT

Mrs Blair is a 'liberal' catholic and is believed to be against the bigots in the catholic church on this one actually.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#4)

by AJScobbie on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:34:46 PM GMT

The prevarication is disgusting. Peter Hain, Alan Johnson and even Charlie Falconer have all be incredibly strong on this issue. I cant imagine Jowell, Hewitt, Alexander, Darling or Straw holding views contrary the principle of equality but the real question is what does Gordon Brown have to say about this?

We need to know. We need to know that he wont follow the horrid example of Scottish Labour in whipping a back bench amendment to permit exemption for faith based adoption agencies in Scotland. This disgraceful attempt to curry electoral favour with the church was defeated thanks to some Labour MPs in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee and Falkirk who felt equality was more important than votes.

Come on cabinet do the right thing!


Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#5)

by Andrea on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:40:56 PM GMT

"Peter Hain, Alan Johnson and even Charlie Falconer have all be incredibly strong on this issue. I cant imagine Jowell, Hewitt, Alexander, Darling or Straw holding views contrary the principle of equality but the real question is what does Gordon Brown have to say about this?"

The Indepedent reported that Jowell, Miliband, Straw and Des Browne were backing Johnson's stance.
Hutton was siding with Kelly and Blair.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#6)

by AJScobbie on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:44:04 PM GMT

I imagine Reid will come down with Blair. Lanarkshire Labour (except Wendy Alexander) have a lamentable history on gay rights.....


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#7)

by Juvenal on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:45:27 PM GMT

I don't hold out much hope of Brown taking the right stand:

"Mr Brown has on 14 separate occasions failed to attend the House of Commons when issues relating to gay equality were voted on. He failed to support the government's equalisation of the age of consent, the abolition of Section 28, gay couples being able to jointly adopt, civil partnerships and the Equality Act."

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-2067.html


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#8)

by Andrea on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:47:44 PM GMT

Frankly I think that you can find many issues where Brown hasn't attended any vote considering his awful divisions attedance record.
For what is worth Brown voted for an equal age of consent in 1994 (Edwina Currie's amendment). However maybe it was too long for PinkNews to check old Hansard records.


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#10)

by AJScobbie on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 09:53:12 PM GMT

Mmmmm and from experience the CoS is far more tolerant and progressive....plus its not as if he doesnt have any close political friends who would have a personal interest in this issue.

Sad thing is I would not be surprised if he missed all those votes due to fears over perception and the hurtful rumours that were put about for some time


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#11)

by Andrea on Tue Jan 23, 2007 at 10:03:02 PM GMT

"plus its not as if he doesnt have any close political friends who would have a personal interest in this issue"

Nick Brown and Spencer Livermore are the first 2 names I can think about.

"Sad thing is I would not be surprised if he missed all those votes due to fears over perception and the hurtful rumours that were put about for some time "

I understand what you're referring too.

I don't naturally know his real views, but I wouldn't take that voting record as a conclusive proof consideing his attedance record (in this Parliament he's at around 20% of division attended). If he had attended 80% of vote and missed all gay rights one, it would have been different...
FWIW Brown's spokeperson replied to that piece:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-2087.html
(quite an angry reply)


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#12)

by Juvenal on Wed Jan 24, 2007 at 11:35:17 AM GMT

The Anglicans step in:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6293115.stm

And an interesting piece from Nick Robinson:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2007/01/a_matter_of_pri.html


Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#14)

by Andrea on Wed Jan 24, 2007 at 04:33:56 PM GMT

At the end of November 2006 an EDM was tabled by Brighton Kemptown MP Des Turner about this issue and an eventual opt out.
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=31712&SESSION=885
97 Labour MPs signed it so far.


Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#16)

by Andrea on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 10:08:29 AM GMT

The Labour MPs supporting that EDM are 101 now.
Meanwhile Joe Benton (Bootle MP) has voiced his support for an opt out (not surprising):
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_headline=city-is--against-gay-adopti on---claims-mp&method=full&objectid=18527090&siteid=50061-name_page.html


[ Parent ]

Re: Backtracking on gay rights? (#17)

by Glass House on Thu Jan 25, 2007 at 02:03:20 PM GMT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6297107.stm

Decision next week apparently.

I suspect we're gonna win on this one. All the pressure is on Blair and Kelly to back down.


Backtracking on gay rights? | 17 comments (17 topical)