Another McDonnell leadership thread

red flagger Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 06:29:47 PM GMT Print-friendly version Facebook

There has been many a thread about the candidacy of John McDonnell for Labour Party leader, but a column from the Guardian I've found online makes some very interesting points.



It can be read here:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mark_seddon/2006/09/mutiny_on_the_bounty.html

It's been said before, but I still believe that Seddon is right when he says that the initial nomination by MPs will be the hardest part for McDonnell to overcome. If he were to get past that stage, things could get very interesting... your thoughts and comments?


tags: , (all tags)

Display: Sort:
Another McDonnell leadership thread | 26 comments (26 topical)

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#1)

by georgeeaton on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 06:49:41 PM GMT

Yes i think things could get interesting. With one person one vote the rank and file trade unionists will be prepared to vote independently. A number of delegates interviewed for the BBC yesterday declared their support for McDonnell. I think he could get quite a lot of support for his backing of the TU freedom bill as well his anti-war, anti-privatisation stance.

Conversely, i think most members are rightly pragmatic enough not to vote for McDonnell and i can't see him attracting too much support in the PLP beyond the Campaign Group and possibly also figures like Clare Short who has said she won't back Brown following his support for Trident replacement.

He does though have the chance with the leadership contest to publicly put forward views rarely heard within the party and this will no doubt win backing from some members who have been waiting for such a figure.


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#6)

by steverace on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 03:47:20 PM GMT

Trades Union delegates are a very different person to geenral Trades Union members in my experience...


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#2)

by Glass House on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 07:30:10 PM GMT

People who are active it Trade Unions may be of the opinion that McDonnell is the way forward, but the ordinary, levvy paying union member wont vote for him.

The idea that the average Trade Unionist is somehow very left-wing was blown out of the water by Blair's victory in the union vote in 1994. The Union bigwigs might have opposed him, but the levvy payers had more sense.

McDonnell is a nobody who is still fighting the  battles (that his side lost) in the mid-nineties. Absolutely no vision whatsover.


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#15)

by smiley on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 10:44:51 PM GMT

1994 was a very, very long time ago...


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#16)

by nickparrott on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 11:09:55 PM GMT

Until anyone does a proper poll of trade union members, no one really has much of an idea what they think about this.

I don't think basing a guess on what happened in 1994 is any more informative than a straw poll of TUC delegates...


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#21)

by johninnit on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 06:38:09 PM GMT

True - though union ballot turn outs aren't generally stupendously high. The hard-core of activists will have a louder voice in any union ballot than the overall composition of the membership would suggest, simply because they will vote, whilst most won't bother.
All in all it's quite fun. My union isn't affiliated so I only get the one (party member) vote :(


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#22)

by nickparrott on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 04:27:48 AM GMT

What were the turnouts like in 1994? I suppose I'd always assumed that they would be much higher than for, say, internal union elections, but perhaps I'm wrong.

You can always get the extra vote(s) by joining some one or more socialist societies! ;-)


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#3)

by red flagger on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 10:50:21 PM GMT

My link seems to have disppeared since I posted this blog, so here it is again if it doesn't reappear:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mark_seddon/2006/09/mutiny_on_the_bounty.html


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#4)

by otware on Wed Sep 13, 2006 at 11:53:06 PM GMT

Certainly a very interesting article. Deffinetly very optimistic, but still the points do seem valid. But I thought we knew all along that McDonnell's real hurdle would be the nominations. If he can just get on the ballot papers I think he will do better than the right-wingers like to think.


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#5)

by Joe S on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 01:19:19 PM GMT

The idea that some (how many?)in the party think that McDonnell will be a successful Labour leader fills me with despair.

Did we learn nothing in the 1980's?


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#7)

by bobbysilby on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 05:16:01 PM GMT

You are forgetting that the millions of Trade Union members who will get a vote are not just "trade union members" but are citizens, voters, many of whom maybe floating voters but overall ordinary working people and I think the fact that Labour's leadership election involves more people than the other two parties combined is actually one of its strengths.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#8)

by turnleft on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:32:39 PM GMT

If John is the only person to stand against Tony then Tony will no doubt win - giving Tony a mandate to stay in office for longer than a year. Something the Tories would love to happen.

For that reason a more serious candidate will announce their candidacy, forcing Gordon to stand for Prime Minister.

Once Gordon stands a serious rival (Alan Johnson) will also have to stand to prevent a coronation.

It is inevitable that once John triggers an election  then all the candidates will announce their candidacy.

Everybody in Westminister knows that the foot soldiers of the main candidates are busy polling MPs and Union leaders for their votes.  


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#12)

by otware on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 11:36:18 PM GMT

What on earth are you talking about?


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#18)

by Glass House on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 11:51:00 PM GMT

I think he's confused about Labour Party Leadership rules. From what I can tell from his bizarre thoughts, he thinks they're similar to the Tories ones in 1990.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#9)

by georgeeaton on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 07:45:31 PM GMT

What do you mean by 'stand against Tony'?  Tony Blair isn't going to be standing against anyone, and certainly isn't looking for a mandate to stay on longer than year.

If your implying that McDonnell is a 'stalking horse' then your completely wrong. McDonnell has clearly stated in public that he will not be such a candidate.

 And i quote: 'I have for some time now ensured that supporters and the media were aware that I did not back a "stalking horse" challenge to the Prime Minister and that if I were to run it would only be when the PM decided to stand down and would only be as a serious challenger to win the election' (link: http://www.john4leader.org.uk/blog-archive/2006_07_09_john-mcdonnell_archive.html)


Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#10)

by serenitynow on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 08:47:30 PM GMT

At the TUC the Electoral Reform Society were conducting a poll on the Labour leadership.

As I understand the initial results were as follows:

John McDonnell - 59%

Gordon Brown - 10%

Alan Johnson - 8%

Others - remainder

~ 214 delegates voted.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#11)

by Joe S on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 10:24:15 PM GMT

Did they ask if any/all were actually members of the Party?

Or if they were members of affiliated Unions?


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#13)

by otware on Thu Sep 14, 2006 at 11:38:27 PM GMT

I would assume that at least some of them represent affiliated trade unions.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#14)

by doctordunc on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 10:02:10 PM GMT


Of course the figures would have been tighter if it had just been affiliated union members (PCS and RMT members have a bit of a headstart in being familiar with John) - but I don't think you can deny it's a pretty good result for John McDonnell.  Most people were writing on here that Brown would walk union members.  A lot of levy payers may be more 'moderate' than those at the TUC, but then a lot of levy payers don't bother to vote in Labour Party elections.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#17)

by nickparrott on Fri Sep 15, 2006 at 11:14:45 PM GMT

I don't think you can tell much from a straw poll of TUC delegates - we could've guessed that they'd be pretty left-wing. It's the membership whose opinions count and we know little about that so far.

You're right about one thing though, a lot will depend on the turnout.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#19)

by JonRogers on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 01:49:53 AM GMT

I strongly suggest visiting the TUC if you think most of the delegates are leftwing. 3 UNISON delegates who joined the walkout were sent home! As a leftwinger who has been at the last four TUCs I can assure you that most delegates are not on the left at all.

Which makes the impressive support for John McDonnell in the ERS ballot (mentioned above but I'll repeat that he got majority support) all the more interesting!


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#20)

by Glass House on Sat Sep 16, 2006 at 04:45:13 PM GMT

Do we know how the 200 delegates who voted were selected? Was it random or self selecting?

My point being that, if it was just a stall that anyone could walk up to and vote at, it's not inconceivable that word went out to McDonnell supporters to get over there and vote to try to make McDonnell appear more popular than he is.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#23)

by davidfloyd on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 11:31:56 PM GMT

"A lot of levy payers may be more 'moderate' than those at the TUC, but then a lot of levy payers don't bother to vote in Labour Party elections."

A think a lot more than 200 will.  


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#24)

by doctordunc on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:02:13 AM GMT

Clearly, but by such logic could we dismiss all polls.


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#25)

by Will Bee on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:52:43 AM GMT

I think McDonnell will do very well, if he can get the MP's backing. I think ordinary Labour party members are still on the left, and therefore will vote for McDonnell.

 JOHN FOR LEADER!


[ Parent ]

Re: Another McDonnell leadership thread (#26)

by revporl on Mon Oct 02, 2006 at 10:51:25 AM GMT

I went to see him speak with Tony Benn and others at the conference fringe. It was like being transported back in time 20 years. The man is an anacronism, and electing him would mean being booted from office pronto and staying out for at least, ohh, say 18 years....


[ Parent ]

Another McDonnell leadership thread | 26 comments (26 topical)